I love O Scale but....... thoughts and ponderings

You have pretty well figured it out, Texas SP.  For O scale trains to look right, you need space, lots of it, for broad curves.  And the equipment itself, is expensive.  There is another price range above Sunset and Atlas, the highly detailed brass stuff, produced in small numbers.  And you can get so carried away with the detail of the models that you don't do much about layout scenery.

However, O scale done well is really, really impressive and -- to many of us -- the ne plus ultra of model railroading.

christopher N&W posted:

TexasSP posted:

I do find the comments on detail in O scale interesting versus the smaller gauges.  Especially HO.  Most of my HO locos had much more fine detail and separately applied parts than what is comparable in O.

 

I've never been in any other scale but 0 but the H0 stuff I've seen often blows the 0 scale stuff away and TODAY seems to run great as well.

You have to look at some of the guys who start out with "I was into H0 in the 90's" and wonder if they are comparing apples to oranges.

 

Great point, Christopher!! 

I was quite impressed with the last HO engines and cars I bought.  Models smaller than O gauge are fine visually for me standing still, I just can't focus on them any more when they are moving.  This started happening to me a little while after I turned 50.  If it hadn't been for the vision problems, I would have never switched to O gauge.   I have a younger coworker who has an outstanding collection of N scale trains that are absolutely superb!!  

TexasSP posted:

Most of my HO locos had much more fine detail and separately applied parts than what is comparable in O.

While O does have nice heft and the smoke/sound is fantastic, there are things in N and HO that blow it away. 

I don't agree with either of these statements as they pertain to O-scale trains but, since you feel this way, it is clear that you should model in HO or N scales. That is fine. I have also considered the advantages of HO versus O-scale but have never been able to convince myself that HO would be more to my liking.

TexasSP posted:

One really cool thing N has that a lot of the HO guys are jealous of is this wonderful site at www.spookshow.net which ranks every single loco ever almost.

The OGR Forum is an outstanding asset for O-gauge/scale modelers. I think it will remain a major resource for perpetuation of this segment of the hobby. The topics discussed are essentially unlimited as are the expertise and assistance.

MELGAR

Wow, some of the negativity here is rather..........interesting.  The offense taken from my comments about O and the other scales is rather humorous.

Mark, BTW, yes the pic is a few years old, I'll be 40 this month.  Although due to my new eating plan I feel better than I did at 30.

For the others, feedback has been nice.  Nothing to say one day I won't come back more interested in O, although I believe if I go for a full layout again when I have the space, it will be 2 rail.

What is clear from many who have commented on HO and N is that they have not really paid attention to the offerings over the last 20 years.  N especially in the last 10 years.

Just for some fun comparison though:

Intermountain N Scale AC12

Lionel O AC12

TexasSP posted:

I have considered joining a club, but then comes time and commitment issues.  There are some good clubs in Houston (although I am not interested in the 1 O gauge club).  The big problem with living in such a sprawling area is that none of the clubs are really convenient to me.  

Funny enough though the closest to me is the live steam group.  I have given some consideration to joining there and have found their fees, terms, and expectations very agreeable and well thought out.

They have free public run days once a month March through October and feature a large "layout" at a public park.

Honestly I feel my life being pushed in a different direction anyway.  I may not even make a move to N scale and sell the O I do have.  After all, they are just "things" in the end.  Life is full of seasons, I understand this more and more the older I get.  Appreciate and get joy from the season you're in, and when that's over embrace the next.  Maybe a move to just having a Christmas layout.  I know one poster on here who gets much joy from this his only layout which is shared in memories weekly.

TexasSP,

I am also a resident of the greater Houston area.  When I moved here I was a 2 Rail O scaler.  As you know, there are no 2 rail clubs in the Houston area anymore.  After a while I found and joined the live steam club of which you speak and I have never looked back.  I have been in the live steam hobby before and I am glad to find a friendly club that allows me to get back into it.  I wish there was a decent 2 rail club nearby, but it looks like most of the O scale equipment is destined to be sold to finance some large scale rolling stock.  Should you ever decide to join the live steam club, I'm sure you will enjoy yourself.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

TexasSP posted:

 

What is clear from many who have commented on HO and N is that they have not really paid attention to the offerings over the last 20 years.  N especially in the last 10 years.

Just for some fun comparison though:

Intermountain N Scale AC12

Lionel O AC12

I concur that very few people look at scales other than their own.  This really hurts O gauge  in both 3 and 2 rail.  Many modelers in the smaller scales think that O gauge trains have not evolved past the Lionel semi-scale O-27 trains of their youth.  I think that more people would choose O gauge (3 or 2 rail) if they were aware of the scale offering by Lionel, MTH, Atlas and others.  Model railroaders at my club's train shows tell us that they didn't know Lionel was still in business and many have never heard of MTH before MTH started making HO trains.  

I am a member of a HO club and I operate on N scale layouts from time to time.  The trains in both scales are extremely well detailed and have excellent sound.  Newer HO steam engines match O gauge with smoke they can put out.  HO and N trains run really well and the coupling is much better than the claw coupler used in O gauge.  

The advantage of O gauge for me is the simplicity of 3-rail wiring and the size of the trains.  I am in my seventies and I find that O gauge is easier to work on than the smaller scales.  I think that many younger folks may change to O gauge as they get older.  

Enjoy whatever scale you are modeling in and take a look at the other scales when you visit train shows from time to time.  You will be surprised by what you see.

NH Joe

That AC-12 looks fantastic.  I see one with sound and DCC sells for around $350!  https://tonystrains.com/produc...ndard-dc-ac-12-4294/

The detail is great, and I know Intermountain engines are great running!  

I agree completely with NH Joe!   For a long time into this century I equated O gauge with MPC trains of the '70s.  An older coworker showed me an MTH catalog back about 15 years ago, and it was then I realized O gauge had come a long way.  (Come to think of it, now I don't have any older coworkers) 

Well, sounds like you are a little less than 25 years younger, but you shouldn't have vision problems like mine for sometime, maybe never!!  I also agree with NH Joe, my arthritis makes it harder to work on smaller things.  My dad is 87, and he still has better dexterity than I do.  He has just started having trouble with arthritis, and has been asking me for advice.  Everyone is different!

I have enjoyed the discussion!  All scales have pros and cons for each person.  But one thing is, no matter what scale you talk about, the models being produced now are outstanding when compared to 40 years ago. 

I like the 7.5 inch gauge but a 40' boxcar is 60" long at 1 1/2" to 1'. But even they can't always decide between 1.5 or 1.8 scale. Kinda like traditional vs O scale.

A wooden caboose in 7.5 gauge can be detailed to make anyone smile. I just can't get even a small oval in my spare room. Ha

Left this:

for this:

Happier where I am at, because the layout immediately above allows me to do this:

I have less derailments on my basement sized HO railroad, which can support 11 operators.  I also operate on an N scale railroad that runs pretty much flawlessly, which supports about 8 operators.   As far as I'm concerned, for those who complain about HO and N not being reliable, you either didn't pay attention to wheel gauge, low hanging couplers, and properly weighted cars, or you equipment was pretty ratted out.  I'll put my HO railroad up against any O scale two and three railroad for electrical and mechanical reliability. 

Looking forward to dispatching my railroad in two weeks on a Sunday session.  Half of my operators are O scalers (two and three rail).  They have fun, just as I had fun when I was also modeling in O scale.  The advantage with the HO railroad is I do not have to cart the railroad in a 20 foot cargo trailer.  That pretty much killed the fun for O scale for me.   

BTW,

GNNPNUT, the HO locomotive and layout look great!!  Thank you for sharing!!

I'm another person that does both gauges ..... O and HO. They really are two different animals, and each is wonderful.

I was always torn between the two scales. And, with my small layouts, I've flipped between the two .... buying and selling equipment. With a small layout of each .... no more feeling "conflicted." I'm at peace. lol

And, yes .... modern HO equipment runs flawlessly when properly executed. They look pretty good, too ....

gnnpnut posted:

Left this:

 

I love the look of that massive Z-8.  That is really great O gauge modeling.  I love the weathering.

 I also understand why you run HO.  I was running HO at the club this morning.

 I think that a very credible 3 rail layout can be built in the space that many people use for HO.  Rich Batista's Black Diamond Railroad is a prime example.  

NH Joe

I love scale but in my space of 16x4 it is a challenge. A one track mainline and 7 Yard tracks is all I can do but guess what? By using smaller prototypes and some nice buildings from Menards it looks and runs great. It is not perfectly in scale but close enough.

I could have done it better in HO  but the scale is just too small for me plus I love the size of O, the heft of O and the sounds and smoke of O. Even with improved sounds in HO and N there is just no comparison to O. 

To those doing HO or N, have fun, I am and so should everybody else.

Dave

All this talk makes one wonder why S isn't the most popular scale.

After viewing the latest offerings and zeroing in on a couple -- i was (not naively) shocked at the prices.  Ok sort of.  I've gotten into the habit of buying used.  But I found similar offerings of the my 2 preferred pricey premier engines in HO in minutes. I found a guy that tinkered with the sounds, someone built a custom sound file for it even -- retrofitted a new smoker unit for more smoke... and well, it all sounds like fun.... And importantly not thousands of dollars.

Which should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.  It's an observation not a call to arms exactly.  I still have a few hundred linear feet of O track and several engines,  and plenty of rolling stock...  Yet...

I went to O after growing up in a household that had a moderately large permanent HO layout,  The reason was the fact O was the best scale in terms of accommodating temporary  layouts.  That decision has served me well, since it allowed me to maintain my finished cellar as family space, not my private train reserve.  The trains appear in the living room around the holidays, where I have enough room to set up a relatively elaborate floor layout with reversing  loops which covers a large L shaped space.    Family and guests enjoy the element of that layout being a "limited time" seasonal treat.

I have looked at S Scale and I have 3 problems with it, although it is a fine scale and I mean nothing against those who model it.

1. Availability - Sporadic at best

2. Price - almost as expensive as O

3. Size - Doesn't have the size impact of O or enough advantage of such smaller size that HO has

So to me, it provides no real advantages.  The best place I see it fitting is seasonal around the tree type layouts.  Not as large as O so easy to incorporate but not as small as HO or as fragile for floor running. 

TexasSP posted:

I have looked at S Scale and I have 3 problems with it, although it is a fine scale and I mean nothing against those who model it.

1. Availability - Sporadic at best

That is the biggest problem facing S today.  S was on the verge of some relative popularity until 2010 when Sada Kan fired their customers, resulting in the loss of S Helper Service, a company that brought many new products to the scale.

Rusty,  30+ years in S Scale.

Some HO and N modular club layouts that I have viewed in operation were very smooth and devoid of derailments. Very impressive! My problem is I have always been drawn to the larger trains such as standard gauge and 1:22.5 G scale.

Joe Hohmann posted:

At 76, for me it's simple...O and S have childhood memories for me.

Just 2 yrs behind you Joe and I agree 100%.  Every time I look at my PW Lionel & my American Flyer trains it's just like being back in the 50's and that's a good thing..

I went the other way, to a larger scale/gauge.  I grew up with mostly Lionel O gauge.  Dabbled in HO as that was what the local club was.  But once I had my own house, I went to G gauge with LGB trains and eventually live steam locomotives.  Less is needed in G to achieve a believable railway.  Just look to many of the wonderful 16mm narrow gauge garden lines in the very small UK gardens.  One or two live steamers, a couple of little "critters" with battery power for when steam operation isn't desired.  I have 3 live steamers(one is my wife's).  I run a LGB/Aster Frank S 0-6-0 and a Roundhouse Bertie 0-4-0.   My wife has an old Hyde Out Mountain 2 truck Shay.  I still have a few HO trains in a display case. But with eyesight that isnt the best, and prices of new HO engines getting right up to where O gauge was just a few years ago.  My bigger trains are easier to run and more for the $$ spent.       Mike the Aspie

I too am in Houston and into 2 rail O. It looks like 3 of us here are. I know a few locals who are as well. The beginnings of a club start with the people and it looks like we could have the beginnings of one here if we just decided to start to meet up. I could arrange for everyone to meet in Spring at Craig Brantley's O/On3 layout for a session. 

FREDSWAIN, I am interested, especially if on the north side.  I straddle Spring and Tomball off 2920.  My contact info is in my profile.

I grew up off of Louetta but live in Clear Lake now. My parents are still up there. Craig's layout is off of Louetta near Ella. The old club here was called HOGS (Houston O Gauge Society). Several years ago we held a meet to reform it but haven't done anything again. A few people have tossed around the idea of building modules. 

I just asked Craig of he'd like to work on getting HOGS together again and he said absolutely. We'll try to coordinate a meet at his place in Spring hopefully sometime in late May or early June. We've got over a dozen names. 

If my name is not already on the list, please add it as I would enjoy an operating session on Craig's layout.  Hopefully, he's not just planning ahead and lining up help when he decides to move and rebuild his layout.  

Bob, I got a list of names from Craig and yours was at the top of the list. I'll be sending out an email this week to gauge interest so we can find out when the best time would be that works around everyone's schedules. We'll do the first one at Craig's house. After that we'll have to discuss it. We'd like to setup regular meets again. Maybe not monthly but several times a year. 

Well not to beat a dead horse ... but I just got a e-flyer from one of those well known model train online retailers with sale items from a well known model train producer in HO.   And just about everything on it -- all engines are < $100.  There are dozens and they look so fine, you know.  And they are all or nearly all DCC equipped in some form.  Ok so I bet it's "the" DCC sound card and all that but still... meanwhile over in that other catalog in O, the 2 cats meow engine that caught my attention came to a whopping $2300 added together.    I mean, is it fair to say at roughly twice the scale -- O should only be double the price of HO!?   (joke)

I know it's not a completely accurate example but when you double something in size dimensionally, you increase it's mass by a factor of 8.

$100 x 8 = $800. The math still don't add up.

Andre

I paid over $100 for several of my n scale diesels and around $450 for several of my O scale diesels. Sounds like a bargain.