Is This Pricing Typical?

Laming, that link is a mess.  How about the ebay item #?

Beach:

Take another look using this item #: 292763482230

Andre

I'm no Williams expert but Trainworld has the exact same engine set for $339 here.

So I'd say the eBay seller is touch high.  What's funny is it's not even the highest on eBay.  Some other seller has it listed for $459 (362494584176)

Wow. I'm just shocked at the pricing. Several years ago I thought I recalled Williams being a more cost effective way of having a piece/set that "looked like" some popular Lionel piece/set. I now see that's no longer the case!

Thanks Beach.

Andre

Seems high to me. Should be closer to $300 max.

Edit: 

I've noticed that eBay prices have gone up in the last 4 weeks or so. People taking advantage of the holidays. I've usually found the best prices on items in the summer. Now is probably the worst time to buy trains on eBay.

Note that these have True Blast Plus, which is polyphonic, and includes prime mover sounds. WBB seems to be reissuing earlier models with the upgraded sound system for upgraded prices.

Lou:

I'm sure it's worth those prices to others, but I don't think it would ever be to me.

For that price, I suspect one could purchase a super NICE set of Lionel PW 208's and have the real deal... AND... the ozone and all that stuff that comes with PW.

Ah, to each his own!

Andre

MATT:

Looks like you posted while I was typing my response to Lou.

I didn't realize that it was also sound equipped. Still, though, I don't know if I would ever be willing to to give $330 - $400 for a such a set. Getting cheap in my old age, I reckon!

Andre

It's pretty obvious that some e-Bay sellers don't have a problem with putting ridicules prices on their items. Maybe they hope that a neebie will bite.  I find myself having to resist dropping them a message questioning their sanity.  Best to just ignore them.

Best Wishes and Happy Holidays with Smooth Running Trains!

Don't forget it not like this free forum.  Sellers get charged on the sale and charged on the shipping.  eBay is not cheap to sell on.  It is not like it was 10 years ago.

depends on whos selling it, I had a local dealer that use to sell those sets at $150.00

laming posted:

Lou:

I'm sure it's worth those prices to others, but I don't think it would ever be to me.

For that price, I suspect one could purchase a super NICE set of Lionel PW 208's and have the real deal... AND... the ozone and all that stuff that comes with PW.

Ah, to each his own!

Andre

My 2 cents Andre (which is worth a negative 5 cents nowadays...)

The reproduction stuff is nice and enables folks to pick up fine examples of postwar pieces.  That's where the similarity ends.

You hit upon the magic word: Ozone.

I was picking up Lionel's Conventional Classics and Postwar Celebration stuff a couple of years ago and was looking forward to the WBB Alcos.  I wound up selling it all, because while it looked very pretty and ran well, the childhood magic of ozone was lacking. 

There's also something else, although some folks think I'm loony when I try to describe it: When you hold an original postwar piece in you hands, it has a different "feel" than a reproduction/reissue.  It may be the finish or the vapors of old Lionel grease and oil, I really can't easily explain it.  It's almost as if you can feel the passage of time these items have experienced. 

I'm not currently picking up Postwar Lionel, (I do have a small, unremarkable collection of Postwar Flyer however) but every now and then I hear the call.

Rusty

I had a set I bought at a show for $50.00. Found the same set on ebay for $250.00. I messaged the seller and asked why so high

and that I just paid $50.00 for the same set. His response, "enjoy my set, and good luck finding another at that same $50.00."

Lots of sellers on ebay, at shows, and on this forum are fishing for top dollar (or more) and seem to be in no hurry to sell - it's as if keeping an item in inventory has no cost attached to it.  In general, I'm amused and ignore it.  However, the aspect of it that bothers me is that an uninformed person might pay that price, then later learn they've been ripped off, and get soured on the hobby.  

Personally, I'd like to see a "are you kidding?" feedback button on listings (both on ebay and here on the forum) that displays the number of clicks, but I know it will never happen.

we used to have a dealer in the area that priced everything in his shop to sell. he would come to train shows and the other dealers would get mad because he was charging so little for things. and he was still making money. example at one show he was selling sets that usually go for $250.00 for $100.00. the other dealers were buying them up before the show opened and putting them on there tables for $250.00 and at the end of the day on sunday they ended up taking them home with them.

And then there is the dummy on the FS Forum for $600. I don't even have that in two PS3 engines. I finally have a $500 engine because I paid $270 for it and just had to have a board put in for another $260.

If you want to know what something "goes for", you must do an "advanced search" on eBay for items that have been actually SOLD over the past 3 months. Anything else is a waste of time. 

If there have been a good number of sales, throw out the highest (bidding war) and the lowest (dumb "buy it now" price) and average the rest.

laming posted:

MATT:

[snip] Still, though, I don't know if I would ever be willing to to give $330 - $400 for a such a set. Getting cheap in my old age, I reckon!

Andre

Andre, I agree. My layout is with O-27 track and I have no interest in an "O-27-sized" locomotive, such as the FA-2, when most four-wheel truck Geeps and Alcos will run on it fine. My interest drops even further when the price is over $200 for a conventionally-controlled locomotive, which is what I run.

Regarding over-priced items on Ebay, I like the idea of an "Are you kidding?!" button. That said there are plenty vendors at the Greenberg and Amherst Railway Society shows that I've been to that seem to be out of touch with the market reality. With either you will find surprise steals, but the key is to know what you want and what you're willing to pay.

A case in point: This fall I decided that I wanted get an O-scale consist—primarily boxcars. My upper limit was $50 including shipping, which usually means a ~$35 for the car and $10-$15 for shipping, but I really wanted to be closer to $40 per car. I knew which road names I wanted and what colors I wanted—at least a couple in boxcar red/brown. Sticking to my guidelines, I ended up getting five boxcars for an average price of $40.47, including shipping. I spent $50 total on one car and my least expensive purchase was $28. All were new-in-box. I'd like to have a gondola, but am holding out for one that meets all of my criteria.

Look around at York.   I picked up a NIB scale GG1 for $120 several years back, and the next year I got the A-A Genesis NIB for $150.  I'd be really hard pressed to pay those prices for Williams stuff.

It seems more and more find a place that has items and they buy them, then mark them up on ebay. Look a Menards items on ebay. I also notice a lot of Williams GG1's as trainworld has them at $299.99 and the same items are anywhere from $400 to over $600 on ebay. 

Williams Ebay link

Here's the direct link to the item in question.

Thanks all for your input.

At this point, I'm not even sure what direction I will be going for the foreseeable future: HO or Traditional 3-rail. (Sigh. It's a long and sordid story that can be read here if you're in the mood for some sado-maschism today.)

And IF I DO decide 3-rail, I'm not sure how much non-PW I could be interested in. However, even though I have a plan (in the above linked thread) to try to decide whether it will be HO or 3-rail, I do confess that I HAVE been browsing the Bay looking at various traditional offerings, both PW and other wanna be's... in case the direction ends up being 3-rail.  Hence, I stumbled upon the Williams set we're discussing, and my resultant jaw drop.

Rusty:

Strangely, I completely understand what you're saying here:

"There's also something else, although some folks think I'm loony when I try to describe it: When you hold an original postwar piece in you hands, it has a different "feel" than a reproduction/reissue.  It may be the finish or the vapors of old Lionel grease and oil, I really can't easily explain it.  It's almost as if you can feel the passage of time these items have experienced."

So, as one loon to another: You hit upon something that would be important to me: That the BULK of the engines would be sure 'nuf PW, for reasons just like you described.

Now, there WOULD be some "other" engines. For example: I would want an engine(s) for yard/industrial switching that performs better than traditional, but is still very traditional in size. PW doesn't really have one. (From my gnats/camels point of view: Lionel's NW2 is WAY too big to look good with 6464 cars.)

I would also like to custom paint some prototype-inspired liveries... and it wouldn't be as important for said repaints to be sure 'nuf PW, so I've been casting my eye at the offerings of Wiliams, Railking, K-Line, etc, hence this thread about the sticker shock. (Seems to me it would be more cost-effective, and fun, to purchase PW's with "issues" and fix up n' paint!)

FWIW: I would expect the bulk of the rolling stock to be PW-like reissues, or PW, or "wanna be's" (like K-Line "Classics") depending upon which provides the cheapest route to the items I find attractive. I could also foresee some fixer-uppers getting painted into liveries that I like, but were never offered/etc.

So, there you have it. At this point I'm not seriously into the 3-rail market, only casting a speculative glance at the grass over in the 3-rail pasture... but there may yet come a time that I'm "back" into 3-rail.

We shall see!!

All fer now.

Andre

Most if not all of the "Buy it Now" priced stuff on eBay is too high. But, due to the fees, it has to be higher than what you would pay face to face. Anything that is priced right at "Buy it Now" usually sells quickly but most stuff will be listed for months, as sellers haven't priced it right. That's why I usually go for the auctions. If bidding gets to high for my tastes then that's fine, I don't need it. 

I get my best deals either face to face or person to person (over the internet) with no eBay. But for rare stuff you're sometimes stuck with the eBay route. 

Patience and flexibility are key to finding good deals.  My only complaint about Williams is the very high glossy finish on some items, particularly FM engines.  I have a set of F3 ABA and pass cars in SP daylight colors.  The Lionel was way over $2000 back in the day.  The Williams were great pieces for the price.

And from what i hear they are very durable, but no ozone for sure.

aussteve posted:

Patience and flexibility are key to finding good deals. 

I agree. Where I live, swap meets are few and far between, so eBay has become my "go to" for hobby items.

Most of my train stuff I have purchased through eBay, and have found it a great way to find just about anything, and at reasonable prices, as long as you're willing to wait on a good deal.

Case in point: I've had this American Flyer 302AC that's lacking a rear coupler: have been on the look out for a replacement tender, and just this week found one for under 20 bucks...and it's attached to an early #300 engine to boot! 

Sometimes you get lucky...

Mark in Oregon

I have three of the Williams offerings...older GP-9($120)...F-3s($225)...FA-2s($225).  They do indeed run great but as mentioned...lack that special sauce of PW.  All purchased new.

Fendermain

The OP's question asks if the pricing is "typical."  I think it is typical, but that doesn't mean inventory turns well at these high prices. I see a lot of typically-priced items like this listed for weeks, months, even years. Eventually, I think, their hope is that someone will have his heart set on a particular engine in a particular road name. This set in question would be a nice replacement for someone whose PW Santa Fe Alco craps out, gets damaged, or starts to look it age. Plus, this set has sound.

I've purchased most of my items at below market prices because of patience, flexibility (as someone said above) and persistence with searches.  But, from time to time, I want a specific item in a specific road and, for those, I end up paying a premium, I don't mind it because I know going in that I'm looking for something less common and specific to my needs.

What is missing from this conversation is lots of ebayers are not train buffs and have no knowledge.  I have a friend who does between 5-8K a month in ebay business selling stuff they pick up at the local thrift stores.  He EXPECTS to make between 5-8 times cost of these items which can be had almost anywhere.  Most of their shipping is to the middle of nowhere.  I expect the item mentioned above will be shipped to the same location probably because the buyer will not be aware there are alternatives.  Ebay is a brand that is widely known, hobby shops are generally known only to those in the hobby.

necrails posted:

What is missing from this conversation is lots of ebayers are not train buffs and have no knowledge.  

That's true, which is why you'll often see a common item (like a Tyco boxcar) listed for $50.00. The flip side is when you can pick up a Lionel 2-8-0 for that same $50 bucks, which is how I came to own mine! Dumb luck...

Mark in Oregon

Smart, careful and prudent shopping, whether buying a car, home or our beloved trains, is always the best way to go. Be patient, and you probably can find what you want in the condition you desire for a reasonable price! Impulse buying is usually the least effective strategy, since emotions can lead to an irrational choice. Timing, of course, is also a crucial factor, and some folks are also better negotiators.

EscapeRocks posted:

Williams Ebay link

 

Here's the direct link to the item in question.

Holy guacamole!

Typical ??.....Of the seller....Trainz? YES.

Nothing earth shattering here. Trainz is always high on new stuff.

Find another seller or dealer with better prices.

Just because an item is listed at a certain price doesn't mean it will sell.

The only prices that mean anything on ebay are those items that have sold.

I've see stuff listed and relisted, for years, that sellers wouldn't drop the price on.

If I want something and the buy it now is too high I send an offer the the seller. Even if they do not accept best offers you can still contact them and in your message make the offer. I've gotten some good deals that way.

I love threads where everyone talks about if an item is priced right it sells quickly and how if doesn’t sell quickly that is the seller having it overpriced. 

What I have learned this year is “priced right” is code for dirt cheap, well below cost, well below cost less a reasonable depreciation. “Sells quickly” is code for flew out the door in 24hrs or less. 

If as a seller you don’t need to sell, the IRS or a mobster isn’t coming for their money next week, there is generally a buyer who is happy to pay reasonable prices - not retail, but not “I will take anything / pawnshop prices,” either. 

Long ago while in business school we learned about markups and turns, two key things in retail. If you have high turns, meaning lots of sales of an item you can make a profit with lower markups. On items with lower turns the markups generally had to be higher to achieve the same profits during a set period of time. When the vast majority of us are selling we cannot increase turns on an item because our inventory is ONE, thus making less per item but selling more doesn’t work. 

How about another thread about the closing of bricks and mortar hobby shop, followed by one proclaiming that trains should sell for 40% off!

“We lose money on every sale, but make up for it on volume!” Sure sounds like the dreams of most train buyers these days, if only such a business model wasn’t a dream.