Just read something in 'L's track catalog that scares me...

HOPPY posted:

I know this topic's been beaten to death many times, but I just read a statement in the Track & Power catalog that bothers me.  They recommend NOT using alcohol to clean track, as they claim it will degrade electrical connectivity.  Instead, they recommend citrus-based cleaners. 

That's an EXCELLENT way to degrade/destroy the DCS signal when operating MTH command control trains. Maybe this is a planned method by someone at Lionel to negatively affect the DCS signal strength?

I have read here of success using 91% isopropyl alcohol, which I have.  I've just begun building my first railroad, so what gives???

I've used denatured alcohol and/or lacquer thinner for decades!

 

My club uses 91% isopropyl alcohol on its HO and outside O gauge layouts.  I use it on my home 3-rail layout.  There haven't been any issues with it degrading electrical connectivity.  

NH Joe

MTH has always suggested Denatured Alcohol for cleaning theirs and others track. I have been using it for years with no noticeable degradation of power or DCS signal.

I even used  GOOF-OFF once or twice to get really serious spills off of my track. But I always followed up with Denatured alcohol.

My track has been down for almost twenty years. I'll stay with what MTH says.

Now if only I can get them to reply to my e-mails.   

If you guys want to try a little experiment, take some citrus-based cleaners that are a spray, doesn't matter if its a pump spray or not. spray it on the ground. (( IF YOU TRY THIS DO IT OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)) Then throw a match to it and stand back!

Seriously, track cleaning is not only labor intensive, but is mostly overrated and largely unnecessary. Both my standard gauge tinplate track and my O gauge FasTrack have not been cleaned for over six years and both my DCS and Legacy locos plus my traditional powered tinplate locos run just fine without any glitches. Avoiding solvents of any kind is my mantra.

It's very important were I live in Maui. The red dirt gets on everything. Don

Tinplate Art posted:

Seriously, track cleaning is not only labor intensive, but is mostly overrated and largely unnecessary. Both my standard gauge tinplate track and my O gauge FasTrack have not been cleaned for over six years and both my DCS and Legacy locos plus my traditional powered tinplate locos run just fine without any glitches. Avoiding solvents of any kind is my mantra.

Art,  you must be living right!  My conventional locos run well enough on dirty tubular track but my command control stuff becomes very problematic if my good old Lionel tubular gets too dirty.

HOPPY posted:

I know this topic's been beaten to death many times, but I just read a statement in the Track & Power catalog that bothers me.  They recommend NOT using alcohol to clean track, as they claim it will degrade electrical connectivity.  Instead, they recommend citrus-based cleaners.  I have read here of success using 91% isopropyl alcohol, which I have.  I've just begun building my first railroad, so what gives???

 Thanks to all.          Hoppy

I read the same thing today. Ive been using something milder than alcohol and or paint thinner.    Windex ..  Seems to work pretty good.  I wonder why they spent 1/4 of a page speaking to that subject?

Denatured And 91 percent are two very different products.

denatured is quite toxic and should be kept off the skin.

I've used goo-gone original luquid on a rag, followed by a dry rag, for years w no issues. Removes buildup much easier than 91 percent alcohol.

don't have dcs so can't confirm nor deny.

mike g. posted:

If you guys want to try a little experiment, take some citrus-based cleaners that are a spray, doesn't matter if its a pump spray or not. spray it on the ground. (( IF YOU TRY THIS DO IT OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)) Then throw a match to it and stand back!

I've been using Goo-Gone for over twenty years and my layout has yet to spontaneously combust...  I never thought to bother with seeing if my Goo-Gone will ignite.  Why would I?

Our homes are filled with all manner of dangerous things (Got natural gas for heating and cooking?)   When used properly, they're not a problem.  The spray can of Rust-Oleum paint I'm looking at right now warns "Danger! Extremely Flammable," but I'm not looking to MacGyver a flame thrower out of it.

Rusty

I also have been using Goo Gone for years as well, and think it is the best.

Fred

Maybe they're referencing the plastic roadbed rather than the steel rail?

Scotch-Brite pad fitted under certain modified cars work great for me! 

NOTE: My layout is located in a relatively dust free environment and it is only 96" X 90" - roughly 7 1/2' X 8'.

pennytrains posted:

Maybe they're referencing the plastic roadbed rather than the steel rail?

Alcohol or some of the harsh cleaners may take the paint off of the ties. 

Something else I was thinking. 

I'm still trying to figure out how it would hurt electrical connectivity?  I know denatured alcohol is highly flammable. We use it while cutting laminated glass at work ( I work for an auto glass company) and light it so the heat will help the alcohol melt the plastic in between the two sheet of glass.  And man does it get hot! So it just may have to do with the plastic but electrical connectivity? 

Jim

What I believe happens is whatever you use weeps into the track joints causeing a mild buildup degrading the flow of electricity Over time.

HOPPY posted:"

" they recommend citrus-based cleaners"

 

WOW, they must really want to sell track. A former OGR Forum contributor guinea-pigged his layout with that junk. "It did not go well". Turned the track and the wheels into a rusty mess. Citrus is acid.

If a mouse get on FastTrack and leaves corrosive urine all over the steel, then all of the track sections needs to be cleaned up with something. After that the tops of the tracks need to be cleaned with a track eraser.

Andrew

Again, thanks to all!

     Hoppy

Gilly@N&W posted:

HOPPY posted:"

" they recommend citrus-based cleaners"

 

WOW, they must really want to sell track. A former OGR Forum contributor guinea-pigged his layout with that junk. "It did not go well". Turned the track and the wheels into a rusty mess. Citrus is acid.

I can confirm this (sadly).  Wanting to take the very best care of my favorite new toy, I read the L. instructions, went out and bought a citrus cleaner, and used it.  I now have several pieces of badly rusted track that nothing seems to correct. (The nickel MTH track was unaffected.)

Tomlinson Run RR 

What?  Bad advice in a Lionel Catalog?  Say it ain't so.........

I have used acetone on a  white cotton rag for years and it leaves no residue.Don't do this with the power on.

Mikey

HOPPY posted:

I know this topic's been beaten to death many times, but I just read a statement in the Track & Power catalog that bothers me.  They recommend NOT using alcohol to clean track, as they claim it will degrade electrical connectivity.  Instead, they recommend citrus-based cleaners.  I have read here of success using 91% isopropyl alcohol, which I have.  I've just begun building my first railroad, so what gives???

 Thanks to all.          Hoppy

One only has to read the topic by Lee Willis from some time back about Simple Green and Fastrack to debunk that idea!

I've stopped using Simple Green on Fastrack

I've never seen Isopropyl Alcohol do anything to the track.  I have no idea where the idea of alcohol changing electrical connectivity comes from, first time I ever heard about it.  It's been widely used for cleaning printed circuit boards and connectors, I've personally used it for decades around electronics with no ill effects.

gg1man posted:

MTH has always suggested Denatured Alcohol for cleaning theirs and others track. I have been using it for years with no noticeable degradation of power or DCS signal.

I even used  GOOF-OFF once or twice to get really serious spills off of my track. But I always followed up with Denatured alcohol.

My track has been down for almost twenty years. I'll stay with what MTH says.

Now if only I can get them to reply to my e-mails.   

I have used Goo-Gone on Fastrack, including the roadbed with no ill effects.  Goof Off is lighter fluid and will melt the plastic.

I use wd-40 sparingly on a clean cloth.  Then wipe down with a dry clean cloth.  Zero problems.  BigRail

E-UNIT-79 posted:

What I believe happens is whatever you use weeps into the track joints causeing a mild buildup degrading the flow of electricity Over time.

I can confirm this. Had to pull up several sections of track to take out some switches for maintenance. Coincidently, some of the removed track had been cleaned with Goo Gone and others with WD40 (an experiment based on what I read here.) All had been given a final rub of 91% alcohol. While the rails were clean, I found that the pins had a heavy coating of a dirty greasy residue which had also crept between the pins and the inside of the rails.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

HOPPY posted:

I know this topic's been beaten to death many times, but I just read a statement in the Track & Power catalog that bothers me.  They recommend NOT using alcohol to clean track, as they claim it will degrade electrical connectivity.  Instead, they recommend citrus-based cleaners.  I have read here of success using 91% isopropyl alcohol, which I have.  I've just begun building my first railroad, so what gives???

 Thanks to all.          Hoppy

One only has to read the topic by Lee Willis from some time back about Simple Green and Fastrack to debunk that idea!

I've stopped using Simple Green on Fastrack

I've never seen Isopropyl Alcohol do anything to the track.  I have no idea where the idea of alcohol changing electrical connectivity comes from, first time I ever heard about it.  It's been widely used for cleaning printed circuit boards and connectors, I've personally used it for decades around electronics with no ill effects.

I too read about Lee Willis using Simple Green to clean his Lionel Fastrack and the disaster he had.

I use rubbing alcohol from either; Walmart, Target or CVS to clean my tubular track. For some whistling tenders it is extremely important to keep the track as clean as possible because somehow the dirty areas make the whistle sound off, mainly happens with Williams steam engines & tenders before the Bachmann buy-out. Don't have any new Williams by Bachmann steam engines to see if they do the same thing.

Lee Fritz

HOPPY posted:

I know this topic's been beaten to death many times, but I just read a statement in the Track & Power catalog that bothers me.  They recommend NOT using alcohol to clean track, as they claim it will degrade electrical connectivity.  Instead, they recommend citrus-based cleaners.  I have read here of success using 91% isopropyl alcohol, which I have.  I've just begun building my first railroad, so what gives???

 Thanks to all.          Hoppy

Sounds like Lionel is wanting to sell a certain track cleaner(more profit to Lionel by making that statement) by making that type of statement. Some people who are new to the hobby will fall for what Lionel is trying to sell them because they don't know how to clean their track.

Like Hoppy I use  91% isopropyl alcohol to clean my track too.

Lee Fritz

graz posted:

Denatured And 91 percent are two very different products.

denatured is quite toxic and should be kept off the skin.

I've used goo-gone original luquid on a rag, followed by a dry rag, for years w no issues. Removes buildup much easier than 91 percent alcohol.

don't have dcs so can't confirm nor deny.

They are both toxic if you drink them. Wear gloves to  keep it off your skin. That said, alcohol is a poor cleaner. Lacquer thinner, acetone, or my favorite, Dupont Prep Sol all work much better. They are all toxic as well so just wear gloves and you will all live to 120.

Pete

Norton posted:

graz posted:

Denatured And 91 percent are two very different products.

denatured is quite toxic and should be kept off the skin.

I've used goo-gone original luquid on a rag, followed by a dry rag, for years w no issues. Removes buildup much easier than 91 percent alcohol.

don't have dcs so can't confirm nor deny.

They are both toxic if you drink them. Wear gloves to  keep it off your skin. That said, alcohol is a poor cleaner. Lacquer thinner, acetone, or my favorite, Dupont Prep Sol all work much better. They are all toxic as well so just wear gloves and you will all live to 120.

Pete

One problem I think you would see with lacquer thinner & acetone is poor air quality, so you would need to vent the room when using those products or have a fresh air supply circulated in the room.

Lee Fritz

I am not an expert on this subject but it would not surprise me if the recommendation is based on the lower flammability of the citrus based product. 

We live in times where it would appear that certain people are not careful, unwilling to be responsible for their actions, and have their lawyers on speed dial.

Have always used 91% isopropyl or acetone on my track in all guages. Goo gone and citrus cleaners leave residue at best. They also cause.other problems. 

Norton posted:

graz posted:

Denatured And 91 percent are two very different products.

denatured is quite toxic and should be kept off the skin.

I've used goo-gone original luquid on a rag, followed by a dry rag, for years w no issues. Removes buildup much easier than 91 percent alcohol.

don't have dcs so can't confirm nor deny.

They are both toxic if you drink them. Wear gloves to  keep it off your skin. That said, alcohol is a poor cleaner. Lacquer thinner, acetone, or my favorite, Dupont Prep Sol all work much better. They are all toxic as well so just wear gloves and you will all live to 120.

Pete

All those other cleaners are also more likely to damage plastic, we were talking about Fastrack.  Some plastics are unaffected by acetone or lacquer thinner, many will be damaged using it.

Norton posted:

graz posted:

Denatured And 91 percent are two very different products.

denatured is quite toxic and should be kept off the skin.

I've used goo-gone original luquid on a rag, followed by a dry rag, for years w no issues. Removes buildup much easier than 91 percent alcohol.

don't have dcs so can't confirm nor deny.

They are both toxic if you drink them. Wear gloves to  keep it off your skin. That said, alcohol is a poor cleaner. Lacquer thinner, acetone, or my favorite, Dupont Prep Sol all work much better. They are all toxic as well so just wear gloves and you will all live to 120.

Pete

All of these cleaners that Norton and others mention eventually evaporate.   As such, there is almost no way that a "buildup" can occur.

Whether FastTrack was built to withstand something as strong as Acetone is another story....but it's disingenuous to say that it will ruin the track itself.  It won't.  What some of us use as roadbed may be effected by certain track cleaner....but metal track will not.

"Sounds like Lionel is wanting to sell a certain track cleaner(more profit to Lionel by making that statement) by making that type of statement. Some people who are new to the hobby will fall for what Lionel is trying to sell them because they don't know how to clean their track." - quote

Do you guys really think that???? Like Lionel has some agreement with Goo Gone and are getting rich off of track cleaner sales????

I'm sure they just used it and it worked well. As it has for me with no conductivity issues or rust. I've been using it since FT was first released.

Lionel is not going to recommend track cleaners that are toxic or hazardous in some other way. So alcohol, mineral spirits, acetone, and whatever else you guys like are not going to be recommended under any circumstances. Think of the liability issues.

graz posted:

"Sounds like Lionel is wanting to sell a certain track cleaner(more profit to Lionel by making that statement) by making that type of statement. Some people who are new to the hobby will fall for what Lionel is trying to sell them because they don't know how to clean their track." - quote

Do you guys really think that???? Like Lionel has some agreement with Goo Gone and are getting rich off of track cleaner sales????

Since I heard a prominent Lionel representative trashing JT's MegaSteam at a Legacy User's Group meeting in favor of their smoke fluid, there's room for doubt.   It's hard to believe they make a ton of money on smoke fluid, and making totally unsubstantiated claims about an alternative and very popular product seems to suggest they might bend the truth a mite...

When I was working in fiber optics we always used 99 % alcohol to clean our connectors. After cleaning we used a magnifying unit to view the surface and if there was speck of dust, even something less than a tenth of a milli inch it would show up. 

The point I'm trying to make is that there must not of been any sign of water after the alcohol evaporated and above all never did we have any damage to plastic connectors that housed the fiber and any associated metal parts due to it's use. 

We had to reconfigure our patch panels fairly regularly so each SC male connector and the associated female had to be thoroughly cleaned using the alcohol.  

Believe me if there was any  degradation of the parts at all we would know it because a fiber optic signal is very sensitive to the smallest obstruction to its path. 

GG1MAN, pretty much the same reason we used acetone on our metal cutting laser lenses and mirrors.