K-Line/Lionel/MTH Berkshire hybrid

For "stump puller" you want a locomotive that'll move a heavy train like there is nothing behind it. Like my MTH Premier ATSF Hudson. It's powered by a 9434 Pittman and it pulling ten 16 inch aluminum passenger cars like nothing. I could tack 5 or 10 more on and it wouldn't break a sweat. 

The stock K-Line chassis/motor in your NYC Hudson wouldn't cut it in that situation. It would overheat with five 16 inch aluminum cars. With these forward facing RS385 motors the chassis swap is the way to go for reliable pulling power.

@harmonyards posted:

We’re always on the search for upgrades to our models,......how can we make it run smoother, better, longer than the OE mfr. ever intended....if your Kline Hudson doesn’t satisfy what you want it to do, I stock all the parts to do this swap....you can hit me up....

Pat

The phrase you're looking for is "hot rodding". I "hot rod" virtually every mechanical thing I own, if it'll improve performance. But you're versed in that 😉.

@Norton posted:

Rather than trying to use the Lionel Berk chassis under a Lionel/K-Line Mikado, just buy a MTH Mikado or try and locate a MTH chassis.

Their Premier USRA Mikados come with rear facing Pittmans.

Thanks!  No doubt the MTH Premier Mikados have a solid mechanical pedigree.  I was trying to avoid all that custom work that you guys do!

I was hoping / guessing that K-Line might have used the same chassis for their A1 Berk and USRA Light Mike, or at least the same mounting points.  If true, then the improved Lionel A1 chassis should fit under ANY of the Mikados (K-Line or Lionel) with minimal fuss.  This would let me build a "super stock" version of Lionel's USRA Heavy with the motor in the rear (as it should have been!)  Also, I'm partial to Legacy and the back-drivable gears.  When Lionel reissued the A1 I snagged one, and it's sweet!

@Ted S posted:

Thanks!  No doubt the MTH Premier Mikados have a solid mechanical pedigree.  I was trying to avoid all that custom work that you guys do!

I was hoping / guessing that K-Line might have used the same chassis for their A1 Berk and USRA Light Mike, or at least the same mounting points.  If true, then the improved Lionel A1 chassis should fit under ANY of the Mikados (K-Line or Lionel) with minimal fuss.  This would let me build a "super stock" version of Lionel's USRA Heavy with the motor in the rear (as it should have been!)  Also, I'm partial to Legacy and the back-drivable gears.  When Lionel reissued the A1 I snagged one, and it's sweet!

As Pete pointed out, what you want to do is un achievable......I’ve got a Kline Mike boiler shell sitting here....it’s miles away from sitting on a Lionel Berk chassis...I’m actually in the process of doing the same swap Lou did on a B&A Berk, so to see if what you wanted to do would even work, I set the Mike shell on the Berk chassis......no bueno.....it’s a country mile away from fitting....that’d be one hacked up mess to make that work....sorry Ted,.....she’s a no-go..

Pat 

@Lou1985 posted:

The phrase you're looking for is "hot rodding". I "hot rod" virtually every mechanical thing I own, if it'll improve performance. But you're versed in that.

I bet your can opener will rip open a can of beans like nobodies business.....when you rev that thing up, half of Cicero goes dark for a moment.....🤣

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I bet your can opener will rip open a can of beans like nobodies business.....when you rev that thing up, half of Cicero goes dark for a moment.....🤣

Pat

I don't even own an electric can opener, just a manual one. My wife won't let me open up the KitchenAid stand mixer to see if I can make it work better 😄.

Back on topic. Would it be possible to swap a MTH Premier Mikado chassis under a K-Line heavy Mikado boiler?

@Lou1985 posted:

I don't even own an electric can opener, just a manual one. My wife won't let me open up the KitchenAid stand mixer to see if I can make it work better 😄.

Back on topic. Would it be possible to swap a MTH Premier Mikado chassis under a K-Line heavy Mikado boiler?

I’m sure it would, it’d be just like the Kline Hudson with the MTH chassis, heavy fab work, careful measurements, and some machined mounting points....both the MTH Mike and the TMCC  Lionel Mike have large Pittmans already in them.....as many Mikes are out on the market, it really wouldn’t make sense to dig that deep into a Mike...in the case of the Kline Hudson, it’s probably one of, if not the best diecast J1 made...so it’s worthy of some effort.....you’d need to be absolutely in love with a Kline Mike to do that kinda swap...or if you or someone got one so dirt cheap it doesn’t matter....

Pat

Lou, K-Line never made a heavy Mikado.  Just the USRA Light, which MTH had already done better.  Lionel was the only one to tool up a proper USRA Heavy, and it has the backwards motor (because I presume it uses the same chassis as the K-Line Light.)  That's the one I would like to upgrade. 

The other Lionel Mikado isn't a USRA Light or Heavy.  It's based on the Southern 4501 prototype.  It's never been reissued with Legacy upgrades, and now that Lionel seems to have standardized on the ex-K-Line tooling, I doubt that it will be.

Ted S, great information concerning the Lionel heavy mikado, so, is the L&N Legacy heavy mikado equipped with the backwards motor to? This thread has been an Eye opener and Pat has given me some great ideas. Here’s my L&N heavy mikado. Thank you fellows. 

Lou 1985, I have a k-line atsf berk that is DOA. Its been a shelf queen waiting for an upgrade such as this. I checked on the lionel parts you mentioned. Would you also need the motor coupling drive shaft? Where do I get the motor you got for your conversion ? If I were to get the parts could you upgrade my berk? I was thinking of always adding ps3 to this engine,but with the tiny kline motor did not want to waist the money on it.  now it seams I can with a little money and the right parts. Thanks roger. 

Btw my email is glasgoreg@me.com if you wish to discuss converting my engine for me.

All of Lionel Mikados made since K-Line folded use the K-Line chassis with the small forward facing motor. That includes all the USRA Lights, Heavies, and the Hybrid. Chassis replacement options include MTH, Williams Brass, and the Lionel Southern type produced in the 1990s. None would be a drop in replacement and require considerable modification to accept the Lionel or K-Line shell. Its only because Lionel themselves made a new chassis for the B&A/B&M K-Line Berk that made Lou's and Pat's conversions doable with minimal modification.

Pete 

Pete is correct, I’ve got a Kline Mike shell here at the shop that I’ve been looking to add a chassis to....there’s no polite way to do it....the fab work would be just as much as putting the MTH chassis under the Kline Hudson....as I’ve said, you got to be absolutely in love with it, or have gotten a Kline Mike for peanuts .....the Kline Hudson is kinda a golden child .....sometimes they can be had on the cheap, so subsequently upgrading it is worth while....somebody correct me, but even those Kline Mikes still approach stupidville prices....no??....

Pat