Layout height for multi level viewing

My lower level is 29" roughly the same height as most table tops.  It works for me... visuals are very good and reaching to the far side is easy.  A lot of kids stop by... it probably looks pretty high up in the air to them.

Thank you Dennis, I take it you are suggesting 29" for the lower level and 41" for the upper level. That feels low to me but I appreciate your input, I was hoping I could get some kind of average,  hopefully I can get a few more opinions.

I cant imagine going to the effort to build a layout and missing the optimal height.  I've been stuck on this issue for a while. Thanks again Dennis.

Oh!  The opinions will come!  I think a lot of folks are starting to get back out and about... it's a quiet evening around here compared to what it's been over the last year.  On the upper level I'm @ 38"  and a 2.2% grade to get there.  71/2" to 8" is plenty of clearance in *most* cases (I don't know what rolling stock you have).  I used my Visionline GG1 with pantographs UP to determine height... it was as high as I could go without it looking too weird for my other sets.

There is no optimal height because we’re all different sizes, have differing preferred viewing angles and different visitors to contend with. And don’t forget, kids grow up, so building low for them only lasts so long. You have the right idea to build platforms after the fact. 38”-42” seems to be where many folks land, but a lot of folks build in elevation changes (not to be confused with a 2nd level), so the height is really different around the layout. If you desire to be able to “see” the action on the lower level that’s hidden then I would definitely go with 38” vs 29” or 30”. 50” for the upper level should let you see all the action on the 5 tracks, but will be harder for those who are shorter, like kids. A 6” platform effectively lowers that to 44”, 14” above a standard table. Look at any kids that will be around and see how they look standing next to a table. Our kitchen counter is 36” high, so you might check yours and use it for reference.

Hey Dennis, Thanks again for the input.

I don't think I would have a problem except I want the 12" inches of separation between levels in the hope that the 2 levels are viewed as separate scenes. At one time I was going to hide everything on the lower level under the upper level, but then, I found a way for longer ramps; so I decided to build a more multi-level layout and open up the lower level.  I intend to light the parts of the lower level that are underneath the upper with LED tape that is on the bottom side of the upper level.

I wasn't going to exceed 2% but enough of you folks have convinced me 2.5% is workable so I increased the separation from 10" to 12" although I still need to change that on SCARM as well as open up the lower.   Are you listening Dave?  Help,   

Thank you, Dennis

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the insightful comments, and again thank you for all the SCARM work you did for me. I know I without your help my planning would be in disarray. As soon as I quit changing things; like the two yards, I will again, be asking your help. Thank you, kevin

I would love to hear from anyone regarding if they use platforms or something similar to aid  shorter guests in getting that perfect viewing height. The particular's of a platform would be helpful.

I’ve never built one, but if I did, I’d subscribe to the way Catholics build pews with the pull down kneelers. I’d place them between the legs on one side of the aisle and size them to fill the aisles on both sides of the peninsula. You could add a little flap to fill the gap created by the legs. Or you could just make a series of modules that could be stored under the layout.

@Fast Mail posted:

I wasn't going to exceed 2% but enough of you folks have convinced me 2.5% is workable so I increased the separation from 10" to 12" although I still need to change that on SCARM as well as open up the lower.   Are you listening Dave?  Help.

I see you’ve made some changes to the last file I have, so either post your current file or attach it to an email and I’ll take care of it.

What do you intend to do with the lower level.  That can determine what the minimum separation needs to be and how critical the height of the levels.  For example, I am planing on 9" between the top surfaces of the staging yard which will give me 7" between the top of the rails and the supporting structure.

How you scenic the lower level affects the separation needed for the desired effect.  Tall trees and structures require greater separation.  Low level height requires greater separation.  From your normal viewing distance one will need to see without obstruction to the backdrop of the the level.  Height affects the depth because you cant reach as far.

You will find that the permissible (not desired) track grade and its length will be your limiting factor,  Consider having 4 staggered levels to increase the separation.

If you do a search on multi-level layouts you can find examples and guidance and opinions.

Jan

Hey Dennis, I like your multi-level layout and would like to offer a simple suggestion regarding platform options.  In addition to adult sized viewing platforms, if you want to allow younger kids to have supervised interaction with parts of the layout, but don't want to have a really tall platform that would be in your way, here's what I used for my daughter when she was much younger.  I got a plastic 2 step-stool that she could either sit or climb on to reach certain kid friendly parts of the layout.  It is light enough that she could move it, but it's strong enough for an adult to stand on.   You might even want to use it sometimes. 

Jan,

Great suggestion, I was surprised when a search of Multi-level turned up zip  then you suggested there was lots of info so I searched without the hyphen.....BINGO lots of help and suggestions. I will get back to you after reading.

With my limited knowledge and experience I should refer to my layout as a hybrid between a true multi level and an over-under.   When I was a child I was often getting on the NYC trains in New York, Buffalo and Cleveland, all incredible stations. Buffalo and Cleveland had platforms underground that would open into storage yards in the daylight.

My layout will attempt to evoke some of that, you may notice on the 3D image above the yard is under the mainline above. Upper and Lower are track connected but I suppose the best way to describe the lower is trains in an artificially lit sub-terrane basement, with the yard visible from the outdoors like a daylight basement.  The scenery will most likely be columns, track boxes, dwarf signals, and lots of grime and black.  I hope 12 inches of separation and a base of 38" will be very viewable and authentic without a specific purpose beyond storage and transit. It was your suggestion weeks ago that had me increase the separation from 10" to 12" however I don't think more than 2.5% is for me.

Thanks please keep paying attention I need all the help and suggestions I can get.  kevin

Steve H. good idea, not many kids around but certainly worth it over a disappointed child visiting.

thanks, kevin

@SteveH posted:

I got a plastic 2 step-stool that she could either sit or climb on to reach certain kid friendly parts of the layout.  It is light enough that she could move it, but it's strong enough for an adult to stand on.   You might even want to use it sometimes. 

https://www.amazon.com/Rubberm...pacity/dp/B004Q0I2RS

Fast Mail, If I had the space I would probably use the shorter (29") height, lower benchwork again.  I had much taller (36") lower benchwork when I lived in NYC.   I'm not short... it's really just personal preference.

Steve, SOMETIMES!!!  I have the same sort of stool and I use it a lot.  Primarily to get up onto the layout.  My layout is very w-i-d-e... a no-no around here ...but, with very limited space and compromises dedicated to my wife, I make due and I'm grateful for what I have.

How high above the main level should the second level  be positioned?

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

How high above the main level should the second level  be positioned?

There’s no standard. A lot depends on if you just want access to place/remove cars, deal with a derailment or be able to view everything. I’ve seen levels with as little as 7” clearance and as much as 18”. It also depends on if they’re going to be connected and how long your space is for the grade between them.

Thank you Dave , your insights are always appreciated