Layout Help

Fixed some of the track joints. Changes are in yellow. 
TIP: Don't put small tracks on both ends of a section, group them all together on one end or the other. This lets you add small tracks in only one spot and it's easier to come up with the right ones to get things to join. Don't be afraid to replace one 10" track with two 5.5" tracks to add the inch or two 4.25" tracks to subtract the 1.5". It's easier to use multiple 10" tracks instead of the 30" track until you're all done. Then you can go back through and replace the three 10s with a 30. If you start with a 30, you limit your thinking to the shorter tracks when making changes or trying to find the combination to join.

You forgot to enter the vertical position and height for the buildings that don't show in 3D. I added some data to get them to show and you can change them to whatever you want.
TIP: I refrain from adding roofs until I'm done. They cover the building and you have to move them in order to change the building properties, location, size, etc.

I didn't know what the stuff was that I circled in blue, so I didn't do anything with them.

Hi Dave, Thanks for correcting things for me. The markings on top of the Brown area in the corner is spose to be an Airfield on a moutians with tunnels under it. The number represent track ends, it showed up for me in 3D, and the other brown area is where the door will be coming into the room. There will be a 40" Altas Pratt bridge there.

Dave here is the file the Carl started for me. He is the man, seams to know a lot about trains and everything with them!

Got it, Mike. I didn't think of an airfield.

And thanks for your service. Played cards with some Marines back in '71 at Da Nang. Nothing but respect for how they protected us desk jockeys, or computer operator in my case.

mike g. posted:

Dave here is the file the Carl started for me. He is the man, seams to know a lot about trains and everything with them!

I exchange emails with Carl often and he is certainly an asset here. Unlike so many others, he tries to understand what folks want rather than telling them how he'd use their space. Then he tries to make the best of their ideas. If you want a display layout, he doesn't try to convince you to make it an operational layout. He's had quite a few of his designs built and not many can say that, I'm proud to have had just a couple. Now if I could just get my own started.

Hey not a problem, Thank you for serving.  Just wondering what you think about the yard location and how its set up. I know I don't have a lot of room for buildings but I have quite a few to try and fit in there.

Mike,

You could use and additional crossover between your two loops.  This would let trains switch between loops without having to back or use the wye.

Jan

I meant to suggest moving some switches to make the storage tracks longer. See the changes in the attached updated file.

Hi Jan, I was thinking about that but just didn't know where it put them.

Dave I like the new switches, any other ideas. At this point I am open.

Mike, you can put them where the Blue tracks are. You could also move the existing crossover that was in the lower left to where the Purple tracks are. That would reduce the number of switches in the area along the bottom of the design. Doing so would also let you expand the storage yard even more. Sorry, but I forgot to change the color when I reworked the yard area.

The other thing to consider, though I don't see a good solution, is that there is only 1 reversing loop around the circle on the right side. Adding 1 to the left side would require changing the shape of the circle  by making it more symmetrical.

I made some edits above, so make sure you've read the latest.

Dave, I like the idea of the crossovers, but the purple goes right into the side of the mountain. Also if you look at the loop in the oil field depending what way you enter you can reverse either direction.

Mike, you should have asked about the layout design. The main reason that I stopped development was an issue in SCARM for the MTH ScaleTrax library. When you cut tracks, close a layout and open it again, the joints are out of alignment and some sectional tracks may reappear. I am not sure if it is repaired yet. I'll shoot an email to Milen.

The background of this design is the Route of the Empire Builder from St.Paul to Seattle and Balmer Yard. Seattle is along the door wall. The oil fill depot which is actually a reverse loop is an actual site near Trenton, ND.

I completed that in Oct with the flex tracks and cut tracks behaving somewhat.

The development of crossover location was not done as I was considering some way to get some elevation and mountains for perhaps some of the cool bridges between ND and Seattle. So, I didn't want to pin down the track with switches yet.

Here's the file as of Oct 12, 2016. You'll see the second wye for the oil fill and Balmer Yard.

You can also see where Mike's really cool powered lift bridge will be located. He built that for the entrance.

Hi Carl, I didn't want to bother you. Your always helping so many people and I thought I should get off my but and try to learn this scarm stuff. I wasn't sure about the location of the original yard placement. I left it flat cause I couldn't figure out how to make grades and as you can tell I couldn't figure out how to put tunnel portholes back in.

I love the layout, just trying to figure out where I am going to put all the building and stuff. LOL Unlike you and a lot of other people on here I look at it and my brain just spins.

I am trading some emails with Milen now. I believe the cut track issue has been resolved. The difficult part with Scaletrax is that there is no 'natural' 4.5" center to center spacing that's needed for the Atlas bridge.

Edit: the issue has not yet been resolved. It does not affect all tracks in the ScaleTrax library. Next SCARM release will fix it.

It looks like you spun the compass around. It's only there for layout reference, not really true north.

Anyway, I just had thought about the terrain - don't go up with the track because the layout doesn't really permit it. Instead, lower the table under it to create the illusion of a mountain and a gorge or valley. Like the doorway, but with a bottom. That would be in the corner opposite the door on the bottom right, approaching it, in it or leaving it.

I played with a 4 way crossover with a 22.5 cross and #4's. It's too wide. 2 - #4's divergence to divergence for a crossover is less than 4.5" wide. Sheesh.

The switch to the left of the door was intended to come out onto a small island or something for the city scene.

Here's an update with the airport in a layer to disappear it for track work.

How much space do want for the city? The crossovers can be fit in.

Do you want another bridge like the ones in the mountains coming to Seattle? here's the pics - I think I sent these to you.

Hi Carl, I am not sure about space for city or town, I was going to go out today and make a list of what I have and go from there. As far as the bridge that would be cool, I could build one of them from parts laying around here.

mike g. posted:

Dave, I like the idea of the crossovers, but the purple goes right into the side of the mountain. Also if you look at the loop in the oil field depending what way you enter you can reverse either direction.

Yes, but the shape of the mountain could be changed. The point is you need the 2nd crossover somewhere and IMHO, there were too many switches along the bottom when I put it there.

As far as reversing goes, you can't reverse when entering the loop from the left unless you back through the wye, at least in the version I've been working with. There is nothing wrong with that, but my next suggestion was going to be along the lines of what Carl just posted, adding another wye on the left side of the circle.

And looking at his version now with the full door and bridge, I see why he located the yard where he did even though the location limits its size. I hadn't seen his original until late last night, so I missed that you moved the yard to the bottom. I also missed that it is an around the room layout and moving it creates an access problem because it will be difficult to reach the cars and tracks in the yard for fixing derailments and maintenance. Any depth over 30" is problematic and should be avoided.

Carl's new version doesn't have either crossover (not sure why), so there is no way to move between ovals, but they can easily be added on either side of the door/bridge. I'm not sure what the lone switch is to the left of the bridge, so I took it out. He also had a GarGraves track on the left that I replaced with ScaleTrax sectional pieces, though if I were building this, I'd replace as many multiple small pieces as possible with single cut longer pieces. I added a crossover on both sides of the bridge and if you want more storage, it would be easy to replicate the yard on the right side of the bridge.

One problem I see in this version is the lack of buildings, so you will have to make adjustments to fit whatever buildings you plan to add. That might be why you moved the yard in the first place, but you do need to consider your ability to reach things.

You can fit a pretty good sized city to the right of the door. There is a Lionel Diner, 4 Korber Power stations and a Plasticville passenger station with a street for reference.

Mike, I posted my version before I saw Carl's last post, so take mine for what it's worth. I'll bow out from making further changes and let you & Carl work out further details.

Dave,

everything is reachable. Scenic decisions need to be made before spending a lot of time on track fitment or crossovers. Plus, the cut tracks reverting back to uncut problem still exists with the ScaleTrax library.

No, Dave, don't bow out. I'll get you up to speed. You may provide a good idea. This will be Mike's legacy to his family.

Hi Dave, If Carl doesn't mind I don't mind. I have seen how you 2 have worked on other plans together and they turned out great.

Carl, you do show there is a good amount of room for buildings. I know I have the Menards Power and light plant, and grandpa's house, a couple small train stations, some small plasticvill buildings. and a saw mill.

What you have done this morning with SCARM would have taken me most of the day! LOL

Moonman posted:

The main reason that I stopped development was an issue in SCARM for the MTH ScaleTrax library. When you cut tracks, close a layout and open it again, the joints are out of alignment and some sectional tracks may reappear. I am not sure if it is repaired yet. I'll shoot an email to Milen.

I noticed that in the past, but I thought it was something I was doing wrong.

Anyway, I got it down to a single cut track in the wye you added. I guess you used the GarGraves track one the left side to try to avoid the display issue.

Hi Carl, just a side note I am not sure if you knew about my Health problem. But its all clear for right now.

Here's my latest adjustments with some city buildings.

Dave, yeah, the whole track thing really frustrated me. Glad that I just nudged Milen again. He is working on some library fixes.

So, Mike, do you want to build a bridge or not?

mike g. posted:

Hi Carl, just a side note I am not sure if you knew about my Health problem. But its all clear for right now.

That's great news!

Carl, I like the buildings and yes I will build the bridge, it will be a good winter project.

 Were happy about it! Gives me more time for trains!

I have some guarder bridges I can use to build it.

Here's a couple of photos that I like. Balmer yard and the Amtrak Empire Builder in Montana. The yard is long more than wide and is set up for port service.

Great pictures Carl, they both have what I have Amtrak F40PH and BN Green. Then the water everywhere.

SO Carl, I ran out to the garage and I have 3 sections of Atlas guarder bridges, if I turn them upside down and put them end to end I could build a bridge about 30" long.

Moonman posted:

Dave,

everything is reachable. Scenic decisions need to be made before spending a lot of time on track fitment or crossovers. Plus, the cut tracks reverting back to uncut problem still exists with the ScaleTrax library.

I could be wrong, but the SCARM tape measure says the reach is 58" and 70" (to where you can comfortably stand, not the point of the corner). Now, if you add an access hatch in the circle, I stand corrected.

Moonman posted:

No, Dave, don't bow out. I'll get you up to speed. You may provide a good idea. This will be Mike's legacy to his family.

I'm not bowing out of helping, just bowing out of posting my versions because we have 3 versions going now and that can get confusing. I'll still post photos and will provide the file if needed. 

Carl, when I mentioned reach, I was talking about Mike's version where he moved the yard to the bottom.

Quick question, when I build these guarder bridges how wide do I need to make them, The reason I ask is because I am going to cut them in half and fill the center so its wide enough for 2 tracks? Eariler you mentioned 4.5" about the problem with matching up with Atlas Pratt Bridge.

mike g. posted:

Quick question, when I build these guarder bridges how wide do I need to make them, The reason I ask is because I am going to cut them in half and fill the center so its wide enough for 2 tracks? Eariler you mentioned 4.5" about the problem with matching up with Atlas Pratt Bridge.

Match the base of the Atlas Pratt Bridge double track for width. How wide is the inside measurement of that?  That's on 4.5" centers.

mike g. posted:

SO Carl, I ran out to the garage and I have 3 sections of Atlas guarder bridges, if I turn them upside down and put them end to end I could build a bridge about 30" long.

Ok, sounds like you have another bridge. Are you up to building the depressed table and scenery or would you like to keep it flat?

Your call.

Hi Carl, I build the depressed table, also I was going to ask you what do you think about building along the east side between the tracks and table edge. Also do you think there is enough room on the west side between the tracks and the wall to build a road up to the airfield.

As far as the bridge I can cut the guarder bridges in half fill them and make one 30" bridge or take 4 of the and put them side by side and make them 20" long. What are your thoughts?