layout idea i had ...

No offense Sir...don't take this the wrong way.  You have a "spaghetti bowl" of track; as many people do.  You would discover if you actually, design a layout, NOT just fit track to a space, you would have a more enjoyable operation.

No matter what anyone does, if you construct loop after loop of track with trains chasing their tails in an endless circle, you will eventually tire of it.

Trains run from point to point, place to place, it would be better to get the train to go somewhere and then come back.  I don't know what space you have, but a shelf layout traveling two or three sides of a room with a train going to one end, reversing, coming back is much more interesting and life-like vs. loops.  Giving the Operator something to do other than watch his/her train circle and control speed.

:-)  Get some sidings!  Build a small yard and switch cars around.  Have a place to deliver the goods.  Get away from looping!  :-) 

John C,

Let's not be so hard on newer forum members.  A lot of people (including children) like loop running and this new schematic may offer more "excitement" and running possibilities (multiple trains, crossings, and potential crashes) than currently exists.

COLTM, I would advise that another feature of model trains that children really like is action accessories (coal operations, culvert operations, crossing gates, rocket launchers etc.).  In addition, the ability to load and unload action figures into gondolas and coal cars adds to their play time fun.  Scenic features like mountains in corners, stations, and roads for toy cars improve their attitude toward running trains.

Show them some different options from the web and see what excites them.  Then see if you can keep that excitement going.

Chuck

Well I definitely have different taste when it comes to model railroading. I completely appreciate the artistic talent that many members here have. I'm amazed at some of the details that I have seen in photos. But for some reason, scenery and such just doesn't seem to be for me, at least not at this point in my life. I'm more into trains snaking around, going up and down inclines, disappearing into a tunnel, taking various paths, etc.

I must admit, that I don't own any operating accessories and maybe I should? I'm on a limited budget, so every purchase I make must be thought through. My current layout is built low, at about 30" so my kids can see the trains. But even so, they can't really climb up on it to play. Perhaps I should just leave my layout alone and invest in some more fastrack for the kids to play with on the floor? Then they could use their imagination and incorporate their legos, cars and such.

Hi Colt,

Are you working with track that you already have?

I like the whimsical nature of the inner loop and figure 8. Fun watching a train run it and some challenges on switch alignments for various routes.

I agree with adding some operating accessories for some additional play value. Perhaps remove that middle loop and create some space to add accessories like a log loader and coal. The coal gets all over, but it's fun to load it at one place and dump at another.

The accessories need to be within reach of a table edge as they need assistance from time to time and kids like to touch them anyway.

A 78" wide table would be needed for the O72 outer loop.

You can only run two trains with this layout without fear of them crashing.  I'd look at a way to adjust it so you can run at least three trains, otherwise it does look like it'd be fun with the trains crossing allover.

As for FasTrack on the floor, I'd say do it.  My kids love when I do.  Be sure to get a few of the grade crossings that don't have signals for them to drive their cars across.  They love driving their Hot Wheels and LEGO cars across it, building Duplo tunnels and LEGO buildings.  I also use empty gondolas and hoppers as "passenger" cars so they can put the LEGO mini-figs and other figures and small plushies in them.

PRR1950 posted:

John C,

Let's not be so hard on newer forum members.  A lot of people (including children) like loop running and this new schematic may offer more "excitement" and running possibilities (multiple trains, crossings, and potential crashes) than currently exists.

COLTM, I would advise that another feature of model trains that children really like is action accessories (coal operations, culvert operations, crossing gates, rocket launchers etc.).  In addition, the ability to load and unload action figures into gondolas and coal cars adds to their play time fun.  Scenic features like mountains in corners, stations, and roads for toy cars improve their attitude toward running trains.

Show them some different options from the web and see what excites them.  Then see if you can keep that excitement going.

Chuck

Not being hard.  :-)  Just sharing info.  He said people had lost interest watch trains loop.  That's NOT an opinion.  It's a fact.  Kids love switching cars too...make it like a railroad!  Stop eternally circling!!!  :-)  and smile!  It's fun.

Colt:

I think you're off to a good start.  The double outer loop idea is a good one - lets you (and/or the kids) run 2 trains at the same time easily.  the figure-8 lets you turn trains around.  If you can put an additional 6"-8" addition onto the one side of the loop to run O-72 that would give you more flexibility with respect to the inner loop, figure 8, and other tracks & accessories within.

What track system do you plan on using - looks like old school Lionel?  I assume you already have some track and that you'll stick w/that type.  I may see what I can come up with if I get the chance to mess around w/SCARM tonight.

Here's something I put together this evening.  This table utilizes a 6" extension to make the table 78" wide to hold the O-72 track.  I used Lionel track and the switches and straight sections in your image and added some half straights (#5505), O-72 swtiches (#5165 & #5166), and a couple of long straights (#5523).  I preserved the figure-8 for turn-around and altered the inner loop to incorporate a small yard.  I'm not sure there's much room for buildings, though.  I doubt you'll use switches at all 4 corners of the O-72 loop, I was just putting ideas out there for how the corners could be used.  For some reason I can't remember how to post the actual SCARM images tonight, so I've got the "3D" image, plus the SCARM file.  For your convenience (or inconvenience, perhaps), I've used my inane color-coding system to designate certain areas of the track in the SCARM file for different purposes:  blue = main line, cyan = alt. main line, red = turn-around, yellow = yard, purple = industrial/commercial. 

Advantages of this design is you can run 3 trains simultaneously & not get in each other's way: one on outer mainline, another on figure-8, and another switching in the yard.  If desired you could flip the switches on the inner 2 yard tracks to more frequently free up the entire inner loop while still doing some switching.  However, at times you will still need part of that loop for a run-around. 

Disadvantages would be a lack of room for actual buildings to go to & from, as well as general scenery. However, IIRC you'd said at this point in time that wasn't a priority for you.  If you change your mind, you can always widen your table a bit.  Everyone here wishes we just had another 2 feet....

Anyway, hopefully you like it; let me know if you have other thoughts, etc.

They (kids) like putting engines in and out of the roundhouse.  Short attention span, wants a different engine every five minutes.   I was able to do a Korber house and 27" Diamond Scale Turntable  5' X 7'  .

You may also want to consider non-derail on all your switches.

OK, so this is a photo of my current layout. Its my first, so be kind please. It needs a little explaining. I built it to accommodate the engines that I had at the time. The outside is 18v dc constant (lionchief). The middle line is DC, and the inner fig 8 is conventional AC. The train on top is AF S gauge. I wanted to showcase the AF more than others because it is my opinion the best I have. I originally panned on putting my HO in the middle of the S, but my bachman HO derails way to often. My table is slightly wider than 6 feet to accomodate  72" curves. Everything was done on a budget. I thoroughly enjoyed building this layout, but as you can imagine, it gets boring quickly. (hindsight is 20/20). I can expand the layout into an L shape if need be, perhaps even another 5 feet. I did build this layout as a table, meaning it has legs and I can slide it out to reach all around it if I want to. 

I have since changed my mind and am willing to shelf my conventional and DC locomotives. I now have two lionchief locomotives that I want to run. (min O31) I will always want to run my AF, but its hard to mix S and O on the same layout and keep it interesting.

I'm not in a big hurry to change things, but I enjoy dreaming. I think I enjoy building and planning the most, so I don't mind if it takes me a while to build a new one. I will likely always be on a budget and I plan on using Menards O gauge track and used switches.

This is my actual idea. I left the S line out of the original picture for clarity. The smaller top loop of S would be a mountain/tunnel for the lower O. The larger loop of S would come out over the O in a trestle of some sort. This would expose more of the O than my current layout, and make a more interesting path for the S. I am concerned though that even on a trestle, the S may hide a lot of the O. The large curves of S sure make it hard to work into a layout. If I can keep my current table the size it is, it would be preferable, but expanding is not out of the question. I've even considered making a whole new table elsewhere just for S, but I prefer to keep them all together.

I do appreciate the input from everyone thus far. I'm taking it all into consideration. Posting takes time, and I appreciate the willingness of people on this forum to reply.

ColtM16,

It certainly is worth it to mix the gauges. You have done what you should with S to keep it visually in the proper perspective with the O. That is, elevate it or put it on the inside lines.

You can operate the whole layout on AC. The LionChief and Lionel S will run on AC.

There is one suggestion that I have. Eliminate some of the wedding cake look using cut-out sub-roadbed and some supports to open up the view of the track under the elevated line.

If you traced about a 1/4"-1/2" on each side of about half of your S line, cut it out and exposed the track underneath, it would really change the look of your current layout. I am guessing that you have a figure 8 or something interesting under there that can't be seen to enjoy the movement of the trains.

No problem if you have preference of a high track to scenery ratio. I like seeing multiple trains running simultaneously.

Have you considered sliding the current layout out from the corner the 5' and leaving it there as a 3 sided walk-around? Being able to view the trains from multiple points of view can add to the enjoyment.

So, slide it out, rework about half of the elevated S to expose the track underneath and cut the backdrop piece on the long side to match.

here's a concept with your new O design and an elevated S with less deck. I didn't take the time to make the tunnels under the deck. Those tracks would be hidden like your current layout.

Carl, I really wish I would have had your input before I built what I have. It sure seems like it would keep my layout more interesting. Also, with this plan, I can keep my current table structure. A lot of my current layout is O27, but I've kinda been wanting to phase all that out for O31 anyways. So if I put in a Menards order for some track and search for some used switches, I would have about everything I need.

A little back story: I'm 30 years old and have 3 kids, boys ages 2 and 5, and a girl age 8. My plan for now is to have a layout similar in size to what I have now in the same room. I want it to be interesting to my kids so that they are interested in something other than video games and tv. I just about have to force my 5 year old son to play trains. He gets bored with it the way it is, and frankly I don't blame him. My current layout was made to fit the trains I had at the time, not realizing that would make for a boring layout. My American Flyer S gauge belonged to my father. I personally think it is my neatest train so I want it incorporated in one way or another.

I think can work with the layout you posted Carl. I might even work in a O gauge yard, like suggested earlier. I might even eliminate the S siding. I don't plan on buying many more S gauge trains. I have trouble with the link couplers, and plan on rubber banding them together. Thus, a siding is almost useless. (I won't update the couplers, I want it original). With young kids, a coupler coming undone can be a disaster, especially on an elevated track. 

So my goal is to get my kids into trains, but not go overboard. I also want a way to showcase the trains I do have. I also consider this layout to be a stepping stone. If my kids get into it a lot, I'll expand. If I get into it a lot, I'll expand later when my kids move out and funds allow. If I need to expand now in order to get my kids into this hobby, then I can expand now. I just don't want to spend a lot of money and time, but end up with the same results.

Thank you for your time and input Carl. I really do appreciate the help.

My wife is getting me the Roger Carp book "Classic Lionel Display Layouts You Can Build" through the library soon. I will also be looking through that for ideas. I really like the look of some of the old Lionel dealer displays.

I have had good luck with a small table that is my grandchildren's. 24" high. I use trains that I don't mind repairing and anything on the table they can play with. I recently had to add a log loader and dump car for the grandson, who is 5. He gets confused still on the order to do things. Fun to watch. I started them around 2 with Thomas and a loop. LionChief. He was starting to get bored.

They can run my trains under supervision. Legacy and LionChief.

I've even been thinking about making a layout that is more intertwined for the kids. Sort of make them work together in order to take turns on different rails and such. Get them thinking and work on some problem solving skills. Lionchief plus with electro couplers could be good too. Maybe get them to hand off consists to one another and work on some team work and planning skills. Perhaps it could be a disaster, but just a thought I had....

coltm16a2556 posted:

Carl, I really wish I would have had your input before I built what I have. It sure seems like it would keep my layout more interesting. Also, with this plan, I can keep my current table structure. A lot of my current layout is O27, but I've kinda been wanting to phase all that out for O31 anyways. So if I put in a Menards order for some track and search for some used switches, I would have about everything I need.

A little back story: I'm 30 years old and have 3 kids, boys ages 2 and 5, and a girl age 8. My plan for now is to have a layout similar in size to what I have now in the same room. I want it to be interesting to my kids so that they are interested in something other than video games and tv. I just about have to force my 5 year old son to play trains. He gets bored with it the way it is, and frankly I don't blame him. My current layout was made to fit the trains I had at the time, not realizing that would make for a boring layout. My American Flyer S gauge belonged to my father. I personally think it is my neatest train so I want it incorporated in one way or another.

I think can work with the layout you posted Carl. I might even work in a O gauge yard, like suggested earlier. I might even eliminate the S siding. I don't plan on buying many more S gauge trains. I have trouble with the link couplers, and plan on rubber banding them together. Thus, a siding is almost useless. (I won't update the couplers, I want it original). With young kids, a coupler coming undone can be a disaster, especially on an elevated track. 

So my goal is to get my kids into trains, but not go overboard. I also want a way to showcase the trains I do have. I also consider this layout to be a stepping stone. If my kids get into it a lot, I'll expand. If I get into it a lot, I'll expand later when my kids move out and funds allow. If I need to expand now in order to get my kids into this hobby, then I can expand now. I just don't want to spend a lot of money and time, but end up with the same results.

Thank you for your time and input Carl. I really do appreciate the help.

My wife is getting me the Roger Carp book "Classic Lionel Display Layouts You Can Build" through the library soon. I will also be looking through that for ideas. I really like the look of some of the old Lionel dealer displays.

Colt,

Just curious, why are you ordering track from Menard's? May I suggest you do more research on track before you commit. I am not familiar with Menard's track, but I would have to see it and talk to people who use it before I order it.

I'm currently using Fastrack which I'm not having any issues with, but I don't like the price of their remote switches.

There is also Atlas and Gargraves. I haven't used either one, but a lot of people like one or the other depending on who you talk to. I have also seen threads about Atlas switches and the problems they have. A lot of people use Ross switches on both Atlas and Gargraves. I have seen Atlas and Gargraves in use and I like the look of both of them. Also there is the old tube track. A lot of people still use it and are very happy with it.

MTH has their track as well, but I haven't really looked into it.

I just noticed this part of the forum is sponsored by Ross.

Well my current outside loop with 72" curves are from Menards. I like the traditional look. Menards offers curves in a variety diameters. I have a Menards somewhat local, and I can do free shipping to the store, then pick it up. Its brand new and if there would be a problem, I can return it easy. I'm unaware of a local hobby store that sells train stuff within a reasonable drive. One thing to note about Menards track also, is that depending on how much you need, case quantities can save you money. I spent less money and got more track than I needed by ordering a case of curves.

As of right now, I seem to really like the nostalgic look of old Lionel dealer displays and such. While I wasn't born yet in the 50's and 60's, it sure seems like a time that I would have enjoyed being a kid. So the Menards track offers the traditional look, but still being brand new. Also, I'm sticking with traditional American Flyer S track that I already have, so traditonal looking O will match better.

I must admit though, the Menards track did need a little squeeze with needle nose pliers to fit snug if anyone is considering it. Otherwise, it works great.

I'm not really stuck on it though, when the time comes to order some track, I will do a little bit of online comparisons to stretch my dollar. I'm also hoping I don't regret tubular track in the long run. Its hard to guess what I will like in the future. The old saying "spend once, cry once" comes to mind.