LCT 9E Does Not Like 42" Curves

Yes, I've noted the same issue with my MTH 9E with PS...the pony trucks drag slightly against the frame on 42" curves.  Never seemed to hinder it's operation though...ran great.  Unfortunately right now it's a shelf-queen with a dead battery and the associated problems.

PD

I think that has been a problem with 9Es through the ages. You are lucky it does not derail. One solution is to remove the pony trucks.

Yes, my Williams 9E did the same thing, I took off the pilot trucks and just run it 0-4-0.

My original has no issues.  Wonder what the difference is.

I have 2 MTH 9Es both go around 42 curves fine on my home layout. One was run on a SGMA layout and had occasional derailing problems. I learned the pilot wheel trick from guys who ran originals.

Does an original 9E hightop in Orange have pilot wheels?

Thanks to all who responded and confirmed that MTH blew it again. As suggested, I flipped it over to remove the pony trucks, however when I rolled it over......rattle, rattle, rattle. Gave it a shake and a screw fell out. I removed the pony trucks and it performed as it should, very nice. I will now have to open it up and figure out where the screw belongs. When time allows, I'll play with the pony trucks to see what causes the bind.

Steve

Steve:

Please see my e-mail - THANKS! 

I think the original ones are standard and the MTH/LCT are metric.

42" curve is just a hair too small...

No, I'm pretty sure only the two-tone green (Girard) and the gunmmetal gray were 2-4-2; the orange and dark green were 0-4-0.

This is the best explanation so far

 Steve

I think the original ones are standard and the MTH/LCT are metric.

 

42" curve is just a hair too small...

Doesn't explain my Williams?

Is not the Standard and Metric thing a joke.

I looked in my books and the Orange 9E hightop does not have pony trucks. The Girard and Grey versions do have them. MTH followed the originals.

MTH and Williams must have followed the same design as the originals and the problem carries through.

Is there evidence that the originals had the problem?

Other than i remember reading about it when i bought my Girard 9E in the 90s.

Well, just thinking out loud here, it seems odd that the originals would have had the issue: that's all there was back then, was 42 curves. If this is a problem with the modern era repros, then I thought the metric explanation actually made sense: Williams sourced their manufacturing overseas, as does MTH, and sometimes a close tolerance can get "lost in translation" in a conversion to metric and back.

Some day I'll have to put the pony wheels back on the Williams 9E and get it back on a piece of track and figure out what exactly is hanging up, and where, to cause the problem.  It might be relatively easily fixable with a couple washers or with a Dremel.

Steve, can you tell exactly where yours is "binding" in the curves?

To muddy the waters a little bit more I have two MTH repros of the Ives 3243R, on one the pony trucks bind on Std42 curves and the other one doesn't.  The one that doesn't bind is PS2 and the one that does bind is traditional, not that it should matter.

John.

What if the pony wheels were extended further out from the pivot point on the motor.

The further the pony wheeels are from the drive wheels, the more the pony wheel truck will have to swing to one side when going around corners, yes?  

What restricts the pony truck swing movement so that the truck cannot swing any further and so the pony wheels bind on the curve?  On the 42 curve section of track, does something on the pony truck hit something on the frame so that the truck can't swing any more? 

My wife is gone tonight, my grandson is Tom & Jerry'd out so I actually had a few minutes of quiet time to look at the pony trucks. One of the things that allows tinplate trains to run on tight curves is everything is pretty loosey goosey. Slop everywhere. The 9E pilots seem to be designed for high rail. They have nice wide faces on the wheels, but have very little lateral movement to make use of it. The side to side movement is maybe 1/16 to 3/32 of an inch. Also, the back of the wheel hubs has very little clearance to the flange of the carrier. It's all just too tight for tinplate. Gonna have to think about how to fix it. I will somehow attempt to narrow the carrier to allow the wheels to be moved maybe an 1/8 inch closer together. For now, it runs well without the pony trucks.

I did compare the 9E pony trucks to my 392. The 392 has a bit more lateral slop, but it also does not have a frame to hit.

Steve

I have an original Lionel gunmetal 9E operating on 042 curves and it does not have the problems that you describe. I would suggest checking the thickness of the wheel across the hub compared to an original wheel. It is just possible that the reproduction wheels are slightly thicker, assuming all other dimensions, frame width and pivot points are the same as an original. Unfortunately, there is not much material on the hub that can be removed by turning or filing without causing a bind against the truck frame, but a little reduction might make a difference. An easy, but not elegant fix, other than removing the trucks, would be to bend the frame out slightly and perhaps lightly grease the frame where contact occurs.

It will be interesting to hear what you discover.

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

Chug,

   You are probably right, if Steve replaces the new MTH wheels with the original Lionel

wheels or swaps the entire truck he will probably find his rubbing problem solved.

PCRR/Dave

Wish I had an original to use for measurements. Oh well, until I get a larger diameter track in place, it will just run as a 0-4-0.

Steve

John 

It would be hard to tell the PS-2 is binding or not because of the cruise control. Hit some soft keys and try conventional with the cruise off.

It is really hard to tell if the engine is running pilot wheels or not as the frame is so big and covers the wheels so much.