Legacy Atlantic boiler removal/smoke unit tips?

I fixed a couple of atlantic legacy Engines The santa Fe - non - whistle smoke 1484. I think a B&O with whistle smoke. Your unit has two soike units a main and whistle smoke unit. There are a few issue that can cause smoke issues in this engine.  The main unit - The smoke unit is not one piece - there was a issue witha rubber gasket that would swell and restrict the fan. Supposedly, Lionel had a different replacement part. Outside of this issue. Some of the issues that can cause no smoke output.

1) "Watch the brakes at the rear of the drive wheels - they are part of the botttom plate. _ i broke a       ton of these taking the shell off."

2) Smoke Resistor - It will be a 6 ohm - But, I believe lionel stated to change all the 6 ohms to 8 ohms?

3) ACREG Board that control ther smoke resistor.

4) Smoke Motor

5) Smoke PCB

I would check that the unit is not turned off in command. Check, for fan operation. If someone can chime in. I believe these units only smoke when moving. So, Do you have chuff Sound?

This unit is packed with wiring internally. Its tricky . But, fixable.

I pulled it apart, there’s a lot of wiring in there for sure but it’s not bad to work with… the gasket was swelled up pretty bad so I made a new one.

I can hear the motor running with the sound turned down and my ear next to the stack.

The heating element (resistor?) had a bit of charred batting stuck to it, but I couldn’t see any breaks in the wire after I wiped off the batting residue. I measured across the resistor legs with it still attached to the board and got 8 ohms. I suppose the next thing would be to pull the resistor off the board and measure it out of circuit…

@Steaming Jon posted:

I pulled it apart, there’s a lot of wiring in there for sure but it’s not bad to work with… the gasket was swelled up pretty bad so I made a new one.

I can hear the motor running with the sound turned down and my ear next to the stack.

The heating element (resistor?) had a bit of charred batting stuck to it, but I couldn’t see any breaks in the wire after I wiped off the batting residue. I measured across the resistor legs with it still attached to the board and got 8 ohms. I suppose the next thing would be to pull the resistor off the board and measure it out of circuit…

That Engine does in fact already have an 8-ohm resistor. But, seems to differ. It that it doesn't appear to use a acreg board for control of the smoke resistor. It appears to use a smoke fan control pcb. Which appears to need programming - if replaced. Maybe, John or GGG can clue us in on this board.

You are correct, the early Legacy with whistle steam frequently used that Smoke Fan Control Board.  Since it has two smoke units, and one is controlled by the whistle function, the plain regulators didn't do it.

So, I have a working fan. The resistor measures 8 ohms. I have continuity on the wiring from the smoke unit to the control board. I’m thinking I need a control board…

Sounds right to me, I've replaced a couple of those in different Legacy steam.

Do they need programming?

Edit: I’m guessing it would be a good idea to replace the resistor at the same time…

@Steaming Jon posted:

Do they need programming?

Edit: I’m guessing it would be a good idea to replace the resistor at the same time…

Do, you know how to access the Lionel parts site.  I looked and there is a number for thay board programmed. Then other parts listing as unprogrammed with zero price and unavailable.  So, Maybe - John can clarify Or, a call to Lionel would be in order. Glad, you brought this up in a post.

This is what I see on Lionel’s parts site:

I’m thinking they’re already programmed for the application?

I agree - But, worth a call to avoid a headache. I also think the gasket you trimmed away is available in another material. You might want to order some of the common parts for this engine As, spares.

The board is not field programmable, you order the one for the application.

Thanks for the help! I’ve ordered the board and a resistor…

Oh yeah, I should add that I didn’t trim the old swollen gasket, I made a new gasket from automotive gasket paper that I had laying around…

@Steaming Jon posted:

Oh yeah, I should add that I didn’t trim the old swollen gasket, I made a new gasket from automotive gasket paper that I had laying around…

ok, I'm confused? There a thin gasket between the smoke circuit board and the motor housing. I beleive though the housingis two seprate pieces with a rubber gasket in between. I beleive this was also a issue. THe smike fluid really go to it. Basically making in loose. You may wnat to check it if its the same setup.

This is the 2 piece unit. The gasket between the “bowl” and the fan motor housing is the one that was bad… from what I’ve read it swells up so bad it jams the fan! Mine wasn’t that bad yet but it was definitely getting there…

@Steaming Jon posted:

This is the 2 piece unit. The gasket between the “bowl” and the fan motor housing is the one that was bad… from what I’ve read it swells up so bad it jams the fan! Mine wasn’t that bad yet but it was definitely getting there…

A ;arge rubber gasket - with a rectangle hole?

Yup!

@Steaming Jon posted:

Yup!

You have to watch thee gap between the gasket. i think some may have used some small amount of adhesive . But, I don't remember. When, You put the shell back on - the wires for the marker headlights are in a deadly place. The wires near the motor driver board were a issue for me.

I had one the wires keep breaking off. Days, after the shell was put back on.. I own like 7 of these engines..

FWIW, that 2010 model with whistle steam is one that I abhor working on, truly ten pounds of something in a five pound bag!  It's stuffed to the gills!  Wire positioning is critical to getting it back together.

It smokes!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

FWIW, that 2010 model with whistle steam is one that I abhor working on, truly ten pounds of something in a five pound bag!  It's stuffed to the gills!  Wire positioning is critical to getting it back together.

Absolutely - A wire nightmare. Especially in the area of the motor speed sensor.
i had one of those wires break off 2 times. I’m still looking for something to make replacement smoke gaskets. They used some sort of silicon type gasket two stacked. Although, the gasket look intact . I can seem to find any adhesive that will hold them in place. I wonder if I should try thin double sided tape? I’m thinking contamination from smoke fluid. Any ideas?

lionel does not have these gaskets - out of stock.

@Steaming Jon posted:

It smokes!

A job well done.

Well maybe not…
I don’t think it’s supposed to do that…

The 2010 model with whistle steam has a smoke control board that controls the two smoke units I believe.  That's the board that would be running the motor on that whistle.

Correct. I initially had no smoke from the stack but whistle smoke was good. I replaced the board and the stack smoke resistor. I then had smoke from the stack but noticed the whistle smoke doing what is shown in the video…

Edit: the original stack resistor measured good, I replaced it because it was cheap and I was in there…

I think those boards have several different firmware sets, perhaps you have the wrong code in the one you have?

I suppose it’s possible, but I bought it directly from Lionel from the parts listings for this engine… it does activate normally when I blow the whistle…

Yep, hard to say Jon, it's certainly odd behavior.  I can't say what is going on, but the old board didn't do this, that's why I'm thinking something about the new board is different.

I took the shell back off to look for pinched wires. I couldn’t see anything obvious but I noticed the shell wouldn’t quite seat fully when I tried to put it back on… at this point I removed the whistle smoke unit so I could get the shell back on (headed to the club tomorrow after work and I want to run this engine). There doesn’t seem to be any problem with the main smoke unit at this point.

Honestly I’m not a huge fan of the whistle smoke (it’s cool looking, but it makes a mess of the boiler), so I’m tempted to leave it like this…

That's one way to solve the problem!   You are finding out why I don't work on these unless at gunpoint!  It's almost impossible to stuff all the wiring back in without screwing something up!

So you want to look at it for me? (Just kidding)

I have done sound/DCC installs in HO scale steam locomotives, so I figured O scale couldn’t be that bad… haha…

@Steaming Jon posted:

So you want to look at it for me? (Just kidding)

Sure, send it along, I have just the place to store it!

And now it looks like the fan motor gave up on me… grrrr…

So I took the shell back off and unplugged the motor from the smoke unit so I could verify that the motor was dead. I put 5v on the motor leads… and the motor worked!

Next I checked continuity on the wiring from the control board to the motor, all good! Wait, that would indicate that the board I just replaced was bad. That stinks.

So I put it back together and ran it and it smokes! Maybe the motor connector wasn’t fully seated in the board and it lost contact? I don’t know… but it’s working now…