What constitutes an "active engine"?  I have a TMCC Veranda Turbine.  The engine and the auxiliary tender each have their own engine ID.  With the "display active engines" check box checked, the engine appears in the menu, but the tender does not.  When the box is unchecked and I scroll though numerically the tender is present.  Meanwhile my SoundStations dining cars do populate the menu with the box checked.  Both the dining car and the aux tender are TMCC and neither have any functions that can be altered.  So, how come the dining cars appears but the tender does not?

 

I suppose it is a moot point since the LSU was not designed for TMCC equipment.  No big deal....just more curious than anything.

I think you have a good point.  While the LSU is for the Legacy system, it would be pretty naive for Lionel to think that we don't need it to work for the tons of TMCC locomotives that most of us have!

I would think if you are worried about making sure you are seeing the entire roster then un-check the active engine box.  There used to be a function that told you how many "valid" entries or something to that order.  Can't say for sure if that was accurate to all forms of engines and auxiliary engine types.

Your booster seems to be a good deal. I use the one offered by B&B   . I am running 15 devices without a problem, but with the charger it's twice the price of yours. I was not aware of your product. Do you know how many devices can be driven off of your device?

 

Why doesn't Lionel fix this issue on the legacy base? 

 

http://www.bb-elec.com/product11.asp?sku=232LB9R

I test my device at 70 mA for a minimum output voltage of 3.5 volts, about 10 times what the Legacy Base puts out.  I don't specify a number of devices because I don't know if they are all exactly the same, but the ones I have seen draw less than 2 mA each.  There may be some secondary considerations like maximum cable capacitance that could also enter into the equation.

 

As a comparison, my TMCC Base put out 52 mA at 3.5V.

 

The problem isn't easily solved by Lionel without designing a new printed circuit board, and I don't know if their power supply would have an extra 50 mA of current available.  The good thing about the Legacy Base is that they use two I/O chips, and each chip has two I/O channels, for a total of 4 channels in and out.  Some of that might be used for handshaking in more complicated communications schemes than our simple "Pin 2" 0-5V protocol for voltage and accessory controllers.  The Lionel chips also swing +/- 8V to meet the full RS-232 standard.

 

The Legacy "Y" cable uses one pair of I/O's to communicate with the TMCC Base.

Dale, is your booster bi-directional?  What handshake lines does it handle?

I have seen that there is some handshaking with the Legacy utility, serial to usb adapter setup. As to passing the handshaking thru, it isn't used for any of the Lionel com-dat things which the booster drives off of one side of a db9 Y splitter (a regular splitter, not the one that Lionel supplies for the powermaster bridge application) and then the other side can go to the Legacy Utility setup. I wonder of the two I/O chips in the Legacy base, if one drives the pins #1,4,5, and 6 and are used for the Powermaster Bridge setup with the Lionel db9 Legacy supplied cable.

 

John, I only boost Pin 2 on the "Accessories" 9-pin.  Only Pins 2, 3 and 5 are connected.  The "Communications" 9-pin is a straight 9 wire 1-1 connection.

 

The Legacy Y cable does not have all of the wires coming through on the Serial plug, and the Base plug uses one of the other I/O pairs.  My first few Boosters only carried through the pins that were available on the Serial plug, but I have since upgraded to pass through all 9 pins, regardless of whether or not they are on the Serial plug.

 

A word of caution to folks buying RS-232 boosters.  The specification for RS-232 does not define a required current.  The input impedance of the load is 3-7K ohms, and the minimum voltage is +/-3 volts.  Multiple Lionel accessories require a lot more than this.

So, you're saying the only output pin in the Legacy base is pin 2, serial out?

I posted my Y cable setup a couple pages back, anyone willing to build one and try it? My setup seems to work fine for what I have.

 

I actually have a certain colored module in my possession. It must have been left behind during some past experiments. Any chance of seeing 1.4 or 1.5 available for download soon? I'd like to try the R100 mode...don't mind being a guinea pig I suppose...

Pin 1 is an output also for the Powermaster Bridge application...it gets connected to pin 3, an input, on the Powermaster Bridge by way of the Legacy Y cable. Of course it is not necessary to be boosted and only drives that one device, the bridge.

Looks like I screwed up my cable! I thought everything was cool when I could see the base, however trying to actually talk to it resulted in some errors. Looks like I have to bring pins 7, 8, and 9 out from the Legacy Serial Comm connector to the PC connector.

 

One more try and if that don't work Dale will get another order!

I just dug out a 1:1 serial cable from the closet and connected the base to the computer, worked fine.

It'll work. 7 & 8 are needed.

I just got a new base with 1.4 and loaded my saved 1.3 base file into it. All works fine. I was kind of wondering...

The databases are fine between V1.3 and V1.4.  Jon Z though has said to not load system V1.3 on a system that came with V1.4.  Don't know why but he would know.

Inquiring minds want to know...

I would believe you should never go backwards as far as operating systems go.  could be a hardware conflick.

Well that's the thing, it's an issuewith the new cab...won't work with 1.3 

That's ok, but always makes onecurious.

I'm not sure it's important if you already have 1.4.

Well I finally donloaded the LSU and no problems and shows I'm connected to the base.  I have not backed up my base or played with changing any of my data on the Cab-2.  So I maybe in the same boat as Norm there?

 

I've had my computer hooked up to TMCC for along time as I run the trainman software to run trains once in awhile and adding Legacy did'nt seem to change any of that,with that said!

 

After reading the LSU manual,I noticed that you have to install the black module in the Legacy base to create the module and then use it to update the Cab-2.

 

 

If you don't have a laptop or a computer next to your Legacy base on the layout this configuration will be a pain in the *** to make modules in my opinion.

 

I guess what I'm asking is,will Lionel offer a way to make modules at the computer not using the Legacy base and then install them in to the proper units?

 

 

Thanks,Doug

Personally the remote is less problematic but you still need the base to make it's module.  Wonder if Lionel could come out with a module maker that could stand alone. 

 

You would still though need to get to the base to do the upgrade for it.

That would mean that Lionel would have to make a device to plug the module into. I do not see that happening. but you never know.

Marty, I understand the remote deal but the way I'm reading the manual is your upgrading the base and making a module for the remote at the same time.

 

On your second part, My computer is upstairs and my layout is downstairs and both are right out in the open. There's a upgrade available and I want to upgrade,so I have to run to the basement add the black module and then run back upstairs to make it and then go back downstairs to at some point upgrade the Cab-2.

 

Doug

Gosh, how hard is it to pick up the base and carry it to the computer?  It has one wire connected to it, and the power brick.  I think this is a non-problem for most practical folks.

The way I'm doing it, is to make a remote module first and upgrade the remote.  Return the module to the base and create the base module.  Leave it in and do the base upgrade.

 

So you are really only doing one thing at a time.

 

And John is right is is fairly easy to take the base to the computer except some folks have their PS cables and such dressed in neatly.

That's what I'm asking, I've already read some replies about 100' cables,not that people are using them. Depending on what these modules cost,why not be able to make them with out being next to the base?

 

Doug

Personally in the days of lap tops the demand would most likely be low to produce.

 

 

I think I'll either carry the base to my desktop or carry the laptop to the Legacy system.  No way I'm paying for yet another gadget for this limited purpose.

Other than version 14 and then 15 I doubt that you will see an update more than once a year. You really don't need to program a black module very often.  Backing up the base and editing engines is not required, its optional and many will not play with it.  When you get over ~18 engines (your memory may vary) it's not hard to keep track of them and reload them if necessary.  It's a handy utility and will not be used every time you run your engines.  Maybe 4 to 6 times a year max.

Dan

Well I guess I'm the lone wolf on this so I'll let it go!!!

 

Marty,maybe you could ask this question for the LUG meeting?

 

The last meeting showed a metal box and a piece of Fastrack doing something,if that is the long awaited screen that was in older catalogs,who knows??

 

I still want the Lagacy Garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Doug

Wouldn't it be neat if the only difference between the black module and a USB memory chip was the socket. NO! It couldn't be that simple!!

 

Al

you mean this?

 

 

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-24293&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&CategoryID=40&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Yup, it was cancelled a long time ago

This cable from I got from Radio shack works. Windows 7 and com3

 

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...sp?productId=3120513

 

Gigaware 26-949

Yikes!   I paid $10.99 with free shipping for my USB->Serial cable from NewEgg.  It works perfectly for Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit.  I got an extra for my laptop, they're cheap.

 

Vantec USB to Serial Adapter - Model CB-USB20SR

If you use a serial cable or USB to serial why do you need the Lionel Y connector?

 

Ken M

The Lionel Y connector cable is for having a serial to go to the computer and a connection to go to the Powermaster Bridge or the TMCC base. Those are the only uses for it. The end that goes to the Powermaster Bridge is a totally different set of pin connections than the normal serial pin out.

I'm having a bit of a problem.  My computer is an older Gateway, Multi-Media, circa 2005, running Windows XP, Service Pack 3.  I have an extra serial port in back and I plugged in the Legacy Y cable.  When I bring up the LSU program I don't get a Com Port.  I get "Disabled" which the drop down won't change. 

 

With Device Manager COM & LPT Properties I only show a Com 1 and  printer Port LPT1.  No other Com's in use.

 

I rebooted with everything plugged in and got a Com 4 but it had the little yellow ? which indicated a conflict.  Com 1 Port Settings, Advanced, indicates Com 2 and 3 in use but I don't know where.

 

Com 4 says error code 12, not enough resources. 

 

I'm stumped, not hard to do with my basic computer skills.

 

If I get a serial to USB adapter will I still have the Com problem? 

The serial adapter I posted above is cheap enough to try.  It will add a completely independent COM port.  There may be something amiss with your existing port.