Rudy,

I just downloaded the System Utility software-- no issues.

Tried to open the PDF file of the user manual, and had to "extract" procedure.

The extract procedure came up "error- not enough memory".

Any ideas on how to solve??

Regards,

Carl J

Carl

Worked fine for me.  If you open up the program and run the "How to use LSU" on the drop down.

Carl, do you have the Adobe Acrobat reader installed on your system? The manual is in the "PDF" format, which requires the Acrobat reader to view.

Before it gets asked, yes it works fine on the Mac using 10.7 and Parallels

For all you S3 runners you can now edit the keypad to control the Mars Light! 

For all you guys with Legacy engines give the functions on the drop downs a try.  On my Pennsy 2-10-4 it comes standard with tender marker lights and Rule 17.  Before I did anything I made sure rule 17 was functioning, then I edited that position, where rule 17 was and added engine marker lights.  I can now control both tender and engine marker lights individually and rule 17 functions!

These feature are on a trial and error bases.  Not all will work.  You have to experiment.!

Some of the features available are...

Engine Marker

Tender Marker

Hazard

Ditch Lights

Ground Lights

Rule 17

Strobe Light

MARS Light

Other (Unknown what this is yet)

and blank!

Thanks, Chris. As a fellow Mac user I can also report LSU runs fine under 10.6.8 and VMWare Fusion.

Thanks Marty, I guess I won't be on the forum this evening.

Dan

Marty E,

Thanks for the help.

Yes, opening-up the Systems Utility Program and going to the "Help" and "LSU Manual" opened-up immeditely in the Adobe Program-- then save to hard-drive.

Thanks,

Carl J

After finding out the number of the black module, I found that on the Lionel site, and the manual is there in PDF form.

Lionel 6-37125 Legacy Writable Utility Module

I wonder if those modules are actually in stock?

John, not yet

Very resourceful, John! Indeed, the manual is on the Lionel site and Chris is correct, the black LEGACY Writable Utility Module is not yet available. As soon as I can get an ETA on that part, I'll post the info in this topic.

Thanks,

Rudy

Lionel, LLC

We eagerly await the module arrival!

I have to dig through my closet and find a serial port card, haven't needed one in years!

The  modules are listed on the lionel site (not out yet) how many do you need for updating 2?

The serial "Y" cable that ships with the LEGACY system is the recommended cable to use, but I've found other cables that work. You need a male connector on one end, female on the other. I've seen these described as "serial extension cables," but as they say, your mileage may vary.

rudy

jojofry

You only really need one. Write the CAB-2 module and upgrade then write the base module and upgrade.

Jojofry, it can be convenient to have a couple black modules, but you can certainly get by with one. 

If you need a USB/Comm adapter I have found the system is not picky. There is a nice one recommended in the manual, but I have also used a real cheap one that works fine too

gunner wont a usb to serial cable work? i use one to program my mth tui

I know I have a bunch of serial cards, so it'll be free to install one.  I'll have to make sure I have a PCI slot, they're in short supply on new motherboards, and this one is only 3 months old!

JoJofry yes they work great

Indeed, we expect most if not all USB-to-Serial adapters will work, but the one we mention in the manual is what we tested with. 

Ah i have the software to run my trains off my laptop

John, thanks for posting the manual!  Two questions spring to mind:

• What's the new R100 mode?  Is it only selectable via the utility, or with the CAB-2 as well?
• Can you change the order in which engines or accessories are stored in the CAB-2?  Currently, when you scroll through engines or accessories with the CAB-2, it seems you have to scroll through in the order in which the items were added.

1) R100 is for ERR items

It will not allow you to re-order the scroll.  It only lets you edit engines.  Accessories are not accessible, at least in the current release.

I take it that basket of modules i have that came with stuff up to now are not writable.

CJack,

They are not

I am interested in installing this utility.I read the PDF attachment and it mentions there is a Legacy software version 1.5.My base and Cab 2 is currently 1.3.Is there a new version available that I should be upgrading to?Am I missing any functionality I wasnt aware of?Appreciate.Al B.

1.4 is out on some new bases, 1.5 is early, early Beta. 1.4 is mostly to support the ZW-L and has a setting to work with ERR TMCC items. Neither are available to download at this time

1.3 will work, except you will not get the multiple personality modules (where you can store more than 1 engine on a black module)

Adding the ground lights on and off and rule 17 to my legacy challenger  was neat ..

I have a feeling in future years there is  gonna be some legacy stuff that is gonna make the stuff we have atm look like a 8 track tape...

FasTrack with IR sensor as demoed last York.. Just wait

Reading through the manual this looks really cool. 

I just ordered one of the Keyspan Hi-Speed USB Serial Adapters.  As soon as that shows up I get to play.

The software works flawlessly, installed in minutes, used a serial USB/Serial cable found the port and had the base backed up in a few minutes. Also added ditch light buttons on a Dash-9 and they worked great. This will be a great feature that will allow us to keep all data for our club layout stored for future use.

Outstanding work Lionel, Thank You.

And when the module become available, you can make a new module with the custom settings you've edited.

Clubs could conceivably store an entire base based on the users that are present and recall those settings again.  There are a lot of neat possibilities.

I also see a lot of potential for additional tabs for editing and even creating lists for print out.  This will be a topic of discussion at the LUG meeting for sure!

I am happy to report a flawless experience using the LSU software.  Details For those who might need step-by-step instructions: 

1. Not a fan of the quirks in Windows 7, I continue to use MS XP Pro on a Lenovo ThinkPad T61 laptop.
2. I downloaded the file to the subdirectory Programs > Lionel > LSU successfully.
3. I ran the setup.exe program successfully without a glitch and placed a shortcut LSU icon on my desktop.
4. I plugged in my long serial cable leading from the Legacy base via my USB-serial cable dongle and turned on power to the Legacy base.
5. Double-clicking the desktop LSU icon launched the program.  The program launched flawlessly and presented me with the LSU orange screen with the two tabs (“Maintenance” and “Edit Engine Data&rdquo, defaulting to the Maintenance tab view.
6. I went to Maintenance > Configure > Com Port and selected “Com8” (which is the Com Port number assigned to my USB-serial dongle).  Within a few seconds the LSU software paired successfully with the Legacy base and so indicated.
7. I pressed the “Backup Database” button on the Maintenance screen, selected a file name, and specified the location on my hard drive where I wanted the .hex file saved.  The Legacy base data was then saved there culminating in a message indicating a successful backup.

No luck with the R100 mode. Anyone try it yet? Shows up as a blank mode on the remote, no control at all for that engine.

Norm, I'm guessing you are running CAB software v1.3. You'll need v1.4 in order to use the R100 mode. LSU will let you do that update yourself, once the black LEGACY Writable Utility Modules are available.

rudy

You got it Rudy, I am on 1.3. Looking forward to trying it out. Will 1.4 be a free download?

Yes, when the black module is available, both v1.4 cab and base code will be posted as a free download.

The download went fine.

I plugged my USB to Serial adapter into the Communication port of my MANCO Data Booster. No need to unplug anything, Thanks Dale. It was cool to see all the engines come up. I actualy found a couple of engines with wrong sound settings. OOPS

I can't wait for other functions to be added. It will be a lot easier building trains, making routes for switches and such on the laptop.

So has anyone edited their MARS light on the S3 yet?

I hope the black modules are avaiable by York. Maybe Mike can bing a couple of boxes to sell at York.

Jim D.

Edited the Cab2 to give me both tender and engine marker lights.  The Rule 17 icons are gone but since I had Rule 17 active before I did the edit, it still functions as it should.  I also moved the tender marker light icons to the right hand side and put the engine's on the left.

how do you know what icons can be changed?  do you just experiment?

Chris is right all experimentation.  I hope Lionel in future engine manuals will publish what features can be accessed but unfortunately for the ones that are out there it's all trial and error.  Some are pretty obvious to try though based on what the engine has.

So has anyone edited their MARS light on the S3 yet?

I down loaded the software last night which was a snap and after looking over the manual went ahead and made the change. The only Legacy engines I have are the Milwaukee Bi-Polars and S3 so I can't go to crazy with changes although it's still fun to play with. Love the backup feature.

Milwrd

Now when the black module becomes available you can make a module with the new settings to turn of the MARS light.

One of my 400 other things to do this weekend is build a serial cable setup for my Legacy/Command Base/TPC 400/PC interface. I am thinking of making a serial port panel mount near my controls for convenient access. Anyone do this yet?

I doubt, but cannot be 100% it would keep it steady on but it may let you turn it off.

I am in search of a 9 pin to USB adapter, so until then I can't do much other than read the manual and the forum.  I have a suggestion.  It would be really cool if the LSU would offer us the ability to type notes in a text box specific for each engine.  We could keep track of maintenance or trips to Ohio for corrective action.  Sure this can be done in a spreadsheet, but it would be nice to consolidate records.  I don't think this is possible at present....just a thought.

That's my plan. I intend to have an outlet available without changing cables, etc.

Okay guys, I need a little (or a lot of help).  I managed to get all of my Legacy base's database saved to my computer as file:  Legacy System Utility.hex   I did the receive the message "Database successfully saved".  When I click on the "Edit Engine Data" when my base is still connected to my computer all the information that I have in my Legacy base is there.  However when my Legacy command base is unplugged from the computer and when I go to this file and try to open it I get the message "Windows cannot open this file"  I either need to "Use the Web service to find the appropriate program" or "Select the program from a list".   Should I be able to open this file when it's unplugged from my Legacy base or does this file only open when I have my base plugged into my computer's serial port.  I do have base and cab2 v1.3 versions.  I am using Windows XP.  Am I doing something wrong or is this .hex extension file supposed to not open without being connected to the base and computer?  Thanks for any tips or advice.

Ken.

The back up file cannot be edited.  You can only edit the base "on-line" and connected.  There is currently no way to look or edit the backup file.  It is just that, a file that can be sent back to the base.

If you edit the base after backing up the base I suggest you do another backup and maybe date stamp it.  I usually do BU 3-3-12.hex or something like that so I don't overwrite a backup that I might want to save.

It can also be helpful to make the name a little more descriptive...  For example...  2012-03-03-1452-Backup-Before-Adding-New-Milwaukee-S3.hex.  Make your edits and then do another backup...  2012-03-03-1530-Backup-After-Editing-New-Milwaukee-S3.hex.  I usually add the time (24-hour clock) to a backup date because I sometimes do more than one in a day like when I am making a bunch of changes to something and want to save/test between the changes.

Regards,

Eric S.

Saline, MI

Thanks Marty, I just wanted to make sure everything was operating the way it was supposed to.  I know you understand this stuff really good.  As mentioned by Lionel in the "User's Guide" of having mutiple database backups I really like your idea of dating the backup like you suggested - simple enough and very effective.

Ken.

As Steve Musso posted earlier in this thread, my MANCO Legacy Booster provides an extra 9-pin connector for direct access to the serial data on the Legacy Base's 9-pin.

Full details are available at http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=406 

which one of these USB to Serial adapters would anyone recommend;

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vant...1810#Product+Reviews

Dale doesn't need any reviews, but this booster is a bargain, having put the time into building similar, circuits at home for friends. And the added pass thru db9 is the kind of attention and understanding of what is needed in a Legacy system.

Even though I have built boosters myself for others, I'm tempted to buy one for the ease and simplicity of just using it rather than having to make another one for myself

You can't beat this deal. No connection with Dale, other than recognizing someone who understands.

I'm thinking the same thing.  I could build it, but I think the materials would end up costing almost as much as just buying Dale's box!

Thanks for the info Dale. I have a lot of DB9 paraphernalia laying around since I still use the stuff for my calibration equipment in the field. If I can't come up with something or if I decide to add more ICC items I'll definitely get the Manco...

Not to mention the fact of course Dale provides a lot of help here and is one of the nicest people you will ever talk to.  My only problem is his level of knowledge far exceeds my comprehension cabability.  Chief

Unless this info could be stored on the base this is unlikely since that is where the program pulls it's info from.  I'd rather leave those resources for more features.

Here's my Y Cable setup for my controls. Now I can use the LSU software without having to fool around with my serial connections. I had to figure out how the Legacy Y Cable pinned out first, then I watched Big Mike's video on Youtube. I think I got it, CAB-1 works, CAB-2 works, TPC talks to both, and the PC can see the Legacy Base.

I do have one suggestion. I could not find a way of being able to print out a list of engines. Is there a way using the utility to create/print a list of the locomotives and settings from the command base? If not could this feature be put in a future version? We would like to have this for club layouts to show what is in the command base when members run their locomotives.

I've already suggested that one!

At the least if you have multiple base backups, you could reference the printed out sheet for how the base is populated.

It does seem kind of simple for as long as it took to get it out. I appreciate it, but if it would help to get some features, I would pay 29.95 or so for it.

That one looks good, especially that the ham got it to work with PSK-31. I have not had the best luck with Prolific, but FTDI chips have always worked for me. This one doesn't say...so might be good at little price. Here's what I would probably buy if not for the excellent reviews on that one. More info and also compatible with USB 2.0.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/320838636643?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y

This I think is the same one, but only one foot long...

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Micr...215?findingMethod=rr

I'm really not sure what the end game is for the utility.  But it does fill the need of backing up the bases, making engine and system modules as well as basic editing.

I think once folks use it and Lionel sees the comments and suggestions it will become evolved to a point.  I would like to see it generate a list for engines and trains to be printed based on the current data base, train editing, accessory editing, switch and route editing.

I have no desire to see it get so convoluted that it becomes difficult to use nor do I want it to run trains.  I'm a patient person and am very happy with this first step.

In an amazing twist of fate, the LSU actually fixed a bug I was having with my Legacy Command base!   For some reason, I couldn't assign any locomotive to ID #2, it just didn't work.  When I fired up the LSU, I noticed that the Engine Road Number had a garbage character and then three zeros.  I cleared that out and now I can actually use that position again.

Is there any way to erase an entry so it doesn't appear active?  I can't seem to erase a position totally like the others appear using the LSU.

Not that I know of GRJohn.  I believe that was a suggestion submitted.  I'm sure Rudy is keeping notes!

I can clear them with the CAB2, so it's no big deal, I just was trying to clear them with the LSU.

I see a lot of things can be assigned to the extra buttons, but how does one know if the locomotive supports them?  I'm assuming most of those things are not supported if they don't show up already, right?

The list is a great idea.  If a bunch of people all contribute what their locomotives support, soon we'll have a complete list.

I don't have a laptop & my computer is more than 15' away from my Legacy.  Does anyone know how to get USB to work at distances more than 15'.  I am approximately 45' away.

Ken M

The serial cable will have no problem with the distance.  You can easily run it 50 feet or more.  I just slapped a 25 foot serial cable on mine, I was too lazy to dig out a laptop.

I used to run 9600 baud serial cables hundreds of feet when I was doing Wall St. control systems.

Downloaded on to my laptop tonight. I'll have to pick up a USB to serial adaptor.

 First impressions are good. Version 1.5 mentioned in the manual, any ideas of the updates it contains?

Nick

I don't have a serial cable that long.  I have seen where you can use cat 5e up to 50' with a usb converter on each end but I don't know of anyone who has tried that.

Ken M

Trust me, the plain serial cable will easily do that.  I just dug out my 100 foot serial cable and connected to the Legacy using a Vantec USB-Serial adapter model CB-USB20SR.  Works perfectly through the cable, no expensive converters required.

Could one just bring the Legacy Base to the computer and hook it up without running 50 or 100ft. of extra cable?

Yep.  MY second base is on my desk next to the computer where I've been playing with it and the LSU software.

I have begun to play with the LSU.  Overall, it is a pretty fun program.  I think it would be cool to customize the Speedo screen.  I never use the pre-set RR speed buttons.  I would love to substitute those buttons with the optional buttons in the LSU.

Hey Marty, I read your reply to my suggestion for an engine note text box to document service.  Do you think that this feature could be contained within the program installed on the computer's hard drive?  This would preserve the limited memory available on the base.

I don't know how you would sync that up with the base especially if you have multiple base back up files. 

Does the base have to be powered up to use the software?

Ken M

Yes

Count on it!

Rudy

For those of us that spend days or weeks on the road without our trains, perhaps there could be a way of offline editing.  That way, while traveling with a laptop, we could tinker with the setup (probably using the most recent back up file) and then, when we get home, we could connect to the base and sync it up with the new changes.

Just a thought!

I asked about "off-line" editing.  I was told that there would not be that option at this time to prevent the chance corruption of database files.

Also this is only the first REV so they are watching for feedback for added functionality.

The LSU seems to be a pretty impressive advancement for Lionel.  I wonder why it is not featured prominently on the Lionel homepage.  If I did not follow the OGR forum, I would be completely unaware of this software.  Surely, only a minority of Lionel train enthusiasts participate on the forum.  I just find this strange.

It is odd that it's not mentioned anywhere unless you search for it.  It is a nice utility, and it'll be even better when the black modules are available.  Perhaps they're waiting until they have those in the supply pipeline to announce the whole package?

It would be my guess as well that they are waiting for the modules to be ready and make an announcement about the utility then.  Just a guess.

Thanks all for your interest and excellent suggestions! We chose this forum for our initial roll-out of the LEGACY System Utility because we knew you'd put the software through its paces--thank you! As we get closer to availability of the black module (aka the LEGACY Writable Utility Module), you'll see a second, wider round of promotion for LSU including more visibility on the Lionel website. Stay tuned.

rudy

railsounds, thanks for the info straight from Lionel.

Makes sense to me, I figured it would be based on the black modules somehow.

Rudy,

I too appreciate Lionel releasing info directly on the OGR.  It will be interesting to see to what extent comments and feedback from this forum shape the development of the LSU.  I am sure that the non-OGR Forum users that are as of yet unaware of the LSU will really appreciate it once they learn about it!

I have a question. I downloaded the program and backed up my base at home on my laptop. Can I take my laptop to the club and back up the club base with a different name(Legacy Club)? Will it replace my home base or will I have 2 seperate bases backed up?

Thanks

Jim D.

Jim, You can have multiple bases backed up with different file names or multiple backups of the same base, again each with different file names.

Dan

Thanks Dan.

Jim D.

After more time with it. 

1.  Need to do another backup after making engine changes.  Doesn't ask on exit from program.

2.  The R100 setting does not work with v1.3 at all.  Some what random settings appear on the remote for that engine.  Can set a K-Line engine for 32 - 128 - 256 speed steps.

Dan

REL is a 1.4 feature. 

It would be good if it could prompt you to save on exit if there was a change made to the data base.  Good suggestion.

Dumb question, what is REL?

My USB to Serial lead arrived from Amazon (£7.50) today.

 Went to pick one up from PC World the other day but here in the UK they have merged the stores with Currys so they sell everything from TV's to toasters. Needless to say there is now a very limited choice. Used to be racks of diffrent cables, now you would be lucky to pick up a normal USB or Cat 5! Anyway I digress. 

 Tried a base back-up and it worked great have also tried playing with altering the hot keys.

LSU up and running here in the UK

Looking forward to 1.4/1.5

Nick

REL = Relative.

got my usb to serial adapter and downloaded my home legacy files to my lap top. made some changes and saved them to the legacy base.  fired up the handheld and there were the changes.  why would you need a black module?  is it so you can then download the changes to you club or?

I was installing a convenient DB9 port on my layout connected to the Legacy base, and only used pins 2,3,and 5. Didn't work. Apparently there is some rts-cts handshaking so I had to connect 7 and 8 as well. Also did 9 but don't think it was necessary.

Just FYI.

Yep.  Pretty much an easy way to bring your engine setup to another layout or club.

The black module (aka LEGACY Writable Utility Module) is also necessary to perform software updates on the CAB-2 and LEGACY Base.

rudy

Probably a dumb question, but do you have any idea when these modules will be available?

Finally got home and tried to backup my base.

Got a cheap-o USB to Serial cable.  Plugged it into the Serial Comm Y cable.

Launched the software.  Changed to Com port 4 and the status went to base connected.  Selected Backup Database button.  Backup seems to start but very quickly get a message: "Communications Error - Incorrect Response from base.  Make sure the correct COM port is selected.  Refer to help guide".

Help guide says something about garbled data or wrong port or USB adapter.

I only have the option to select COM 3 or COM 4.  Com 3 will not get a Base Connected message.  Com 4 does connect but get the above error.  It looks like my cable is on COM 6 but I don't have that selection available.

Any ideas?

Here's a Vantec cable that several of us have purchased and works well, it's only $10.99 with free shipping: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...Item=N82E16812232006

It works flawlessly for me on two different systems, I bought another one for my laptop so I didn't have to pull the one off the desktop.

Windows? Not really sure just what the problem, but if it's ports and what the computer is using for another device, this is the way to change them.

Go to Control Panel, Device Manager, Ports, USB (the one you have connected to the base and the cable), Port Settings, Advanced, click on the port button and see what is in use and if you can use # 4. Sometimes if you have other devices using the one you need to use, you can change them to free up the one you need.

I had a similar problem.  the disk with the driver was crupt.  went on-line and down loaded driver and then re-booted computer to get it to work.

I don't think there's any way, I couldn't get that to work.

My answer to the issue of "chance corruption of database files" is that #1 it is BETA software and #2 we obviously WANT to be able to edit the files.  I think in this case, though well-intentioned, Lionel trying to protect us from ourselves really limits the potential of this tool.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it very much!  I just wish they would let us do more with it.

Regards,

Eric S.

Saline, MI

It could be well intentioned to protect us fromourselves, but I took it to mean that a file could be corrupted because of the nature of the software and programming thus far.

What constitutes an "active engine"?  I have a TMCC Veranda Turbine.  The engine and the auxiliary tender each have their own engine ID.  With the "display active engines" check box checked, the engine appears in the menu, but the tender does not.  When the box is unchecked and I scroll though numerically the tender is present.  Meanwhile my SoundStations dining cars do populate the menu with the box checked.  Both the dining car and the aux tender are TMCC and neither have any functions that can be altered.  So, how come the dining cars appears but the tender does not?

I suppose it is a moot point since the LSU was not designed for TMCC equipment.  No big deal....just more curious than anything.

I think you have a good point.  While the LSU is for the Legacy system, it would be pretty naive for Lionel to think that we don't need it to work for the tons of TMCC locomotives that most of us have!

I would think if you are worried about making sure you are seeing the entire roster then un-check the active engine box.  There used to be a function that told you how many "valid" entries or something to that order.  Can't say for sure if that was accurate to all forms of engines and auxiliary engine types.

Your booster seems to be a good deal. I use the one offered by B&B   . I am running 15 devices without a problem, but with the charger it's twice the price of yours. I was not aware of your product. Do you know how many devices can be driven off of your device?

Why doesn't Lionel fix this issue on the legacy base? 

http://www.bb-elec.com/product11.asp?sku=232LB9R

I test my device at 70 mA for a minimum output voltage of 3.5 volts, about 10 times what the Legacy Base puts out.  I don't specify a number of devices because I don't know if they are all exactly the same, but the ones I have seen draw less than 2 mA each.  There may be some secondary considerations like maximum cable capacitance that could also enter into the equation.

As a comparison, my TMCC Base put out 52 mA at 3.5V.

The problem isn't easily solved by Lionel without designing a new printed circuit board, and I don't know if their power supply would have an extra 50 mA of current available.  The good thing about the Legacy Base is that they use two I/O chips, and each chip has two I/O channels, for a total of 4 channels in and out.  Some of that might be used for handshaking in more complicated communications schemes than our simple "Pin 2" 0-5V protocol for voltage and accessory controllers.  The Lionel chips also swing +/- 8V to meet the full RS-232 standard.

The Legacy "Y" cable uses one pair of I/O's to communicate with the TMCC Base.

Dale, is your booster bi-directional?  What handshake lines does it handle?

I have seen that there is some handshaking with the Legacy utility, serial to usb adapter setup. As to passing the handshaking thru, it isn't used for any of the Lionel com-dat things which the booster drives off of one side of a db9 Y splitter (a regular splitter, not the one that Lionel supplies for the powermaster bridge application) and then the other side can go to the Legacy Utility setup. I wonder of the two I/O chips in the Legacy base, if one drives the pins #1,4,5, and 6 and are used for the Powermaster Bridge setup with the Lionel db9 Legacy supplied cable.

John, I only boost Pin 2 on the "Accessories" 9-pin.  Only Pins 2, 3 and 5 are connected.  The "Communications" 9-pin is a straight 9 wire 1-1 connection.

The Legacy Y cable does not have all of the wires coming through on the Serial plug, and the Base plug uses one of the other I/O pairs.  My first few Boosters only carried through the pins that were available on the Serial plug, but I have since upgraded to pass through all 9 pins, regardless of whether or not they are on the Serial plug.

A word of caution to folks buying RS-232 boosters.  The specification for RS-232 does not define a required current.  The input impedance of the load is 3-7K ohms, and the minimum voltage is +/-3 volts.  Multiple Lionel accessories require a lot more than this.

So, you're saying the only output pin in the Legacy base is pin 2, serial out?

I posted my Y cable setup a couple pages back, anyone willing to build one and try it? My setup seems to work fine for what I have.

I actually have a certain colored module in my possession. It must have been left behind during some past experiments. Any chance of seeing 1.4 or 1.5 available for download soon? I'd like to try the R100 mode...don't mind being a guinea pig I suppose...

Pin 1 is an output also for the Powermaster Bridge application...it gets connected to pin 3, an input, on the Powermaster Bridge by way of the Legacy Y cable. Of course it is not necessary to be boosted and only drives that one device, the bridge.

Looks like I screwed up my cable! I thought everything was cool when I could see the base, however trying to actually talk to it resulted in some errors. Looks like I have to bring pins 7, 8, and 9 out from the Legacy Serial Comm connector to the PC connector.

One more try and if that don't work Dale will get another order!

I just dug out a 1:1 serial cable from the closet and connected the base to the computer, worked fine.

It'll work. 7 & 8 are needed.

I just got a new base with 1.4 and loaded my saved 1.3 base file into it. All works fine. I was kind of wondering...

The databases are fine between V1.3 and V1.4.  Jon Z though has said to not load system V1.3 on a system that came with V1.4.  Don't know why but he would know.

Inquiring minds want to know...

I would believe you should never go backwards as far as operating systems go.  could be a hardware conflick.

Well that's the thing, it's an issuewith the new cab...won't work with 1.3 

That's ok, but always makes onecurious.

Well I finally donloaded the LSU and no problems and shows I'm connected to the base.  I have not backed up my base or played with changing any of my data on the Cab-2.  So I maybe in the same boat as Norm there?

I've had my computer hooked up to TMCC for along time as I run the trainman software to run trains once in awhile and adding Legacy did'nt seem to change any of that,with that said!

After reading the LSU manual,I noticed that you have to install the black module in the Legacy base to create the module and then use it to update the Cab-2.

If you don't have a laptop or a computer next to your Legacy base on the layout this configuration will be a pain in the *** to make modules in my opinion.

I guess what I'm asking is,will Lionel offer a way to make modules at the computer not using the Legacy base and then install them in to the proper units?

Thanks,Doug

Personally the remote is less problematic but you still need the base to make it's module.  Wonder if Lionel could come out with a module maker that could stand alone. 

You would still though need to get to the base to do the upgrade for it.

That would mean that Lionel would have to make a device to plug the module into. I do not see that happening. but you never know.

Marty, I understand the remote deal but the way I'm reading the manual is your upgrading the base and making a module for the remote at the same time.

On your second part, My computer is upstairs and my layout is downstairs and both are right out in the open. There's a upgrade available and I want to upgrade,so I have to run to the basement add the black module and then run back upstairs to make it and then go back downstairs to at some point upgrade the Cab-2.

Doug

Gosh, how hard is it to pick up the base and carry it to the computer?  It has one wire connected to it, and the power brick.  I think this is a non-problem for most practical folks.

The way I'm doing it, is to make a remote module first and upgrade the remote.  Return the module to the base and create the base module.  Leave it in and do the base upgrade.

So you are really only doing one thing at a time.

And John is right is is fairly easy to take the base to the computer except some folks have their PS cables and such dressed in neatly.

That's what I'm asking, I've already read some replies about 100' cables,not that people are using them. Depending on what these modules cost,why not be able to make them with out being next to the base?

Doug

Personally in the days of lap tops the demand would most likely be low to produce.

I think I'll either carry the base to my desktop or carry the laptop to the Legacy system.  No way I'm paying for yet another gadget for this limited purpose.

Other than version 14 and then 15 I doubt that you will see an update more than once a year. You really don't need to program a black module very often.  Backing up the base and editing engines is not required, its optional and many will not play with it.  When you get over ~18 engines (your memory may vary) it's not hard to keep track of them and reload them if necessary.  It's a handy utility and will not be used every time you run your engines.  Maybe 4 to 6 times a year max.

Dan

Well I guess I'm the lone wolf on this so I'll let it go!!!

Marty,maybe you could ask this question for the LUG meeting?

The last meeting showed a metal box and a piece of Fastrack doing something,if that is the long awaited screen that was in older catalogs,who knows??

I still want the Lagacy Garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doug

Wouldn't it be neat if the only difference between the black module and a USB memory chip was the socket. NO! It couldn't be that simple!!

Al

you mean this?

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-24293&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&CategoryID=40&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Yup, it was cancelled a long time ago

This cable from I got from Radio shack works. Windows 7 and com3

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...sp?productId=3120513

Gigaware 26-949

Yikes!   I paid $10.99 with free shipping for my USB->Serial cable from NewEgg.  It works perfectly for Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit.  I got an extra for my laptop, they're cheap.

Vantec USB to Serial Adapter - Model CB-USB20SR

If you use a serial cable or USB to serial why do you need the Lionel Y connector?

Ken M

The Lionel Y connector cable is for having a serial to go to the computer and a connection to go to the Powermaster Bridge or the TMCC base. Those are the only uses for it. The end that goes to the Powermaster Bridge is a totally different set of pin connections than the normal serial pin out.

I'm having a bit of a problem.  My computer is an older Gateway, Multi-Media, circa 2005, running Windows XP, Service Pack 3.  I have an extra serial port in back and I plugged in the Legacy Y cable.  When I bring up the LSU program I don't get a Com Port.  I get "Disabled" which the drop down won't change. 

With Device Manager COM & LPT Properties I only show a Com 1 and  printer Port LPT1.  No other Com's in use.

I rebooted with everything plugged in and got a Com 4 but it had the little yellow ? which indicated a conflict.  Com 1 Port Settings, Advanced, indicates Com 2 and 3 in use but I don't know where.

Com 4 says error code 12, not enough resources. 

I'm stumped, not hard to do with my basic computer skills.

If I get a serial to USB adapter will I still have the Com problem? 

The serial adapter I posted above is cheap enough to try.  It will add a completely independent COM port.  There may be something amiss with your existing port.

If you are using the Legacy cable, just for a serial cable I guess, with the cable plugged into the Legacy base, you must use the connector marked "serial comm" plugged into the computer serial input.

The other connector that is marked "command base" is not used except for the Powermaster Bridge or the TMCC command base.

Or TMCC Command Base, that I use.

cjack, the "Y" supplied with the Legacy system is more commonly used to hook a TMCC Base to the Legacy Base, hence the label "Command Base" on the male 9-pin connector.  The connections at the 9-pin "Command Base" connector are still pins 2, 3 and 5.  Those pins just feed into different pins at the male Legacy Base - pins 4, 1 and 5.

Perhaps you are referring to a different "Y" cable?

I think this point has already been made clear, but I'll say it anyway: If you are using a USB-serial adapter and ONLY connecting a computer to LEGACY base, there's no need to use the 'Y' cable supplied with the LEGACY system. 

rudy

No, same one. I was confused that the only use for it was the Powermaster Bridge being connected to the "Command Base" end of the Y. I see now that it allows use of the Cab 1 if plugged into a TMCC base too.

But still, to connect to the computer, you have to use the Serial Comm end of the Y cable and not use the Command Base Y cable end?

What I was thinking is that the Command Base output is pin 2, that is,  serial data comes out of the command base into pin 2 of the cable to send data into pin 4 of the Legacy base. So pin 2 of that cable end is an input...not an output which would be needed to go to a serial input of the computer. And that the only end of the Y cable that should be connected to the computer serial port is the one labled "Serial Comm".

Well I was thinking that Johnsgg1 was using the serial port on his computer and using the Legacy Y cable just as a cable. I was trying to say to be sure to use the "Serial Comm" end of it to connect to his serial input on the computer. I think that is true.

Thank you Rudy, I think your answer is very straight forward & what I thought.

KenM

Here is a question.  Just ran my new DMIR Mikado.  Engine ran great! 

When I went to load the engine with the module, my Cab2 would not recognize the module.  Checked several other modules and it was just this one.  Could it be blank?  If it is blank.. could I use the utility to create the module just as if it was a "black module" ?

Kind of wondered what Marty thought about this.

If it's not a black module, it is not writable, so the answer is no.

I think the Utility is win only.

But I guess if you run Parallels or Bootcamp?

You can run the LEGACY System Utility on a Mac, BUT! You must have installed Windows on your Mac and either use Parallels, or in my case, VMWare Fusion. So it is true that LSU is "Windows only." But if you're running Windows on your Mac, it is possible to run LSU.

Rudy

Lionel, LLC

John the data must get written to the module originally somehow. 

These are most likely OTP or mask parts, not re-writable modules.  Re-writable modules are more expensive, and they don't use them unless there's a reason.