Lionel 2015 Volume 2: Share your overall thoughts, opinions.

Not disappointed, always like a new catalog. I want one in my hands before I make any decisions. Not being a nit picker, I am happy with what is offered. As I have stated before an Ohio Central GP would wet my pants but it appears MTH has a lock on that road.

I like the little buildings that make noise. I know its not a new idea, but its still good to see them re-appear. Hopefully the sound quality is good enough that it sounds like more than just garbled junk.

The note about the UP business train in the next catalog is a big plus.

Not sure I like the way they worded the explanation of tooling for the SD60E. It reads as if its going to be a new shell on the existing SD60 TMCC underframe with the shallow fuel tank. I really hope they clarify what they're going to do with this thing.

Haven't really looked thru it yet but was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design, rather plain and boring, no real imagination or thought put into it. Brian Morans was much more vibrant and looked old school Lionel.

Jerry

Interesting Crane Building with crane sounds. I also see a LOT of PRR N5b cabin cars- smoke & no smoke versions.

I was very disappointed in the catalog just a lot of remakes of items already done if you are going to charge what you are asking for then let it be something different I love scale both diesel and steam and I have mostly legacy and it was a real letdown I have the first FEF and I love it I have SD40 GP9 E8 the SD60E were nice looking but I will wait and pick them up at York when they are looking to sell as for the locos that are weathered they look good but not for me so I hope people can find something but the prices are to high and the selection is low   

Nothing of interest to me, personally.  I notice that Lionel's made-in-USA "6464 sized" boxcars now list for $85.   Wow.

I found the new TOFC cars to be interesting because it seems that some more Weaver tooling has found a new owner.

was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design,

 

Interesting Jerry-  because I must say, the runner up designs would make nice offerings.

The logging shanty with sounds is a neat offering,  Nice addition to a layout.

To me, that winning car really looks like something from a starter set.....  just sayin'. 

I like the 2nd place car I would have purchased that one

Overall it's a bit disappointing.  Don't like the Design Your Own Boxcar, FEF's are a little pricey (a smoking whistle can't cost that much) and, in general, nothing really caught my eye except the Milk Cars.  I may pre-order those.

The logging shanty looks like the boy scout camp with sound added. 

Some nice stuff in there, but the prices are really getting up there. 650 for a diesel?  Yes, I know 550 or so street price, but still - and you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture.   The rolling stock prices, as others have said - $80 for a 9700 style boxcar ( even figure 65 for street price)  is insane. 

As much as I'd like a 60E, not sure I can get myself to pay that for a diesel. 

The new TOFC's are really cool.  I like the Milwaukee Road semi-truck .  Where's the flat car?

Agree, I ran the First Responder past my wife this morning.  It didn't go well.  Something about children....college.....food....etc.  LOL.  I need it to be LC in the $250 range for her to give the green light.

Love the First Responder.  My kids will like the universal remote!

There's nothing I really need, but maybe for later on.

I won't say it's a bad offering though.

What I do like:

• The non-train Lionel products like the clock, shirts and flags. I'll likely get one or more of those on a rainy day.
• The new SD60E's look really cool, especially the First Responders and Veteran versions - they're a nice thanks to those they're commemorating.
• The other diesels are nice. I do like the scale SD-38's in particular.
• The UP FEF-3 class coming back - the #8444 version with white walls and white running board is my favorite since I vividly remember it from Shining Time Station.
• The Heisler Climax type steamers and wood carrying rolling stock
• The new Milk cars - I will likely pick up a couple later.
• The new LionChief Mikados - the #4501 should be a pretty popular one.
• The postwar inspired space and military products - always ones for me to admire.
• The Smithsonian boxcar looks REALLY cool.
• The work houses with sounds are a pretty neat idea, and are priced right.

What I don't like:

• The Consolidations in the Southern and Western Maryland markings don't look anything like their popular prototypes - looks like the West Coast fans lucked out there...
• No J3A Hudson with Legacy...okay that's my opinion...

I always like the "buzz"of a new catalog but that's tempered by the fact that I already know there's not going to be much for me. And that's fine. I run a PW-style toy train layout -- and some tinplate -- so the last several years of Lionel catalogs (basically since they dropped the Conventional Classics) have been slim pickings. No interest at all in Legacy or other high-priced stuff.

I have picked up some of the LC+ locos including a few from this year's Vol. 1, and may add to that line.

EDIT: Forgot about some of the 115th anniversary items. The box car looks cool and will be nice to have. And that neon clock for the train room is calling my name!  

Why are you saying the prices are too high?

Do you have a 100' x 40' sized track layout and you have to fill it with 200 freight cars in six months? If that was the case, then the prices would be too high.

If you were only going to buy 4 or 5 freight cars in the next year, then the prices would not be too huge.

The prices are high because these are all limited quantities now and there are not very many train stores remaining that sell Lionel.

Andrew

I'll get one of those 115th boxcars, perhaps some gear as well. 

My quick thoughts:

My O gauge buying is winding down as I now pretty much have most of what I want and the escalating pricing of the new stuff quickly tempers any temptation to buy or upgrade the existing roster.

The 2-8-0 WM is a generic rehash of the 2001 2-8-0 and looks nothing like the prototype. Thus, I have little faith that one of the last things on my "wish list" -  a super-detailed, all-new Legacy PRR H-9 or H-10 will happen anytime soon.

The Legacy GP-9's look nice. 

That statement supports something I've been saying for a few years now.  Namely, the days are pretty much gone where all but the most financially blessed toy train enthusiast can buy everything they like in a given catalog.  So instead of one person buying 20 freight cars, Lionel is OK with 5 people buying 4 freight cars... or even 10 people buying 2 cars.  But is the market growing sufficiently to support that kind of thinking in the long run???   

I keep hearing O-Gauge is flat, and market demographics would suggest that the folks with really deep pockets are a shrinking slice of the pie.  But you'd never know that with the price-creep of the newly catalog'd products over the past few years.

David

I like the Space Boxcars. I thought I read an alternative for the Powerhouse 180 was coming. I am a little disappointed to see nothing about it in the catalog. 

Yeah, who doesn't love an $85 ($64 at Nassau) boxcar?!  At that price the design your car guy should get a cut!  

Jeff Davis

I made a few pricing observations on the "start your clocks" thread. 

Overall, I thought it was a great catalog... lots of product across a broad spectrum of interests.  Lots to be happy about.

The only other comment I'll make regarding pricing is this...  For some items like the SD60E's special paint-schemes, folks (and I include myself in this group) will likely pre-order the models they really want to purchase. 

For everything else, I think the newer items are now priced at a point where an increasing number of folks will just sit out the pre-order commitment and wait for the 15%-20% sales when dealers have product (i.e., "extra" BTO items) already sitting in inventory.  If that means some items don't get produced because of low pre-order volumes, then so be it.  None of this stuff falls into the "must have" category.  None of it.  And the new prices for items like the E7 AA sets, Heislers, and FEF's are perfect examples of items priced above any reasonable sense of "value" -- especially when compared to the price discounts dealers need to offer in an effort to move product out of their existing inventory.

David

It's a shiny Catalog.

Well there is allot to go through this catalog. I applaud the new cabeese with and w/o smoke. 

The FEF's are a fine addition but I'm not on the market, have the old release.

What I will be getting is some of the scale wig wags crossing signals and maybe a caboose. 

I fell off my chair on the E7 pricing... 1000.00 for a diesel, pffffft. No thanks.

I feel there are still allot of centipedes out there that need a home for that price.

Geese, that's half a Vision Line Big Boy, which are still available.

I am still confused about the 18 in Aluminum cars available in the catalog. They are still making them? Or is everything going to 21 inch?

But in all honesty the Bang for the buck is this beauty right here

Although I found quite a bit of rolling stock that interested me, the thing that struck me most was that the presentation of the catalog seems to have significantly improved. I particularly liked the "World of".. themed pages towards the center that brought together related products for a closeup rather than overloading with paint scheme variants - brought home the thought of modeling far more than the other pages.

I absolutely agree.  There is nothing in this catalog I can't live without;  there will be no pre-orders for me.  I'm not a high rail/scale guy.  There are a few traditional boxcars I like, but I will wait and get them down the road...if ever.  I am finding more and more that I get a lot more enjoyment from my hobby dollars if they are spent on hobbies/interests other than trains.  To paraphrase a great president...I am not leaving the hobby, the hobby is leaving me.

Jeff Davis 

I'm probably in for the Great Northern E7 A-A set.  Where are the passenger cars?

Notes to Lionel:

1. The nose GN logo (round "Rocky" herald) is missing.

2. Please get the colors right. The GP7s and GP9s had too much red in the orange. I can get you help from GNRHS if you need it.

3. Please get steam generator roof details right. Catalog correctly shows two steam generator intakes and exhausts. As built, my CB&Q E9 has only one, which was wrong.

Wait, wait.... there are "Extra" BTO items to be had!?!?!  That's not how it was supposed to work!  We had to pre-order it to make sure we got it (assuming it got made). 

As to prices in general, it's a long path that got us here. Over the last 20 years or so it started with some steamers breaking the $1k mark, then the JLC steamers at $1800, then the most recent Vision Line Big Boy ($2700 list?, ~ $2k street).

At each of these points, the opportunity for the community as a whole to say "no" existed.  But none of these items were cancelled.  Each time an item that is priced higher sells, it gives the OK for the next items (even lower in the product hierarchy) to have higher prices.

The diesels are not a new thing either.  In 1996-97 or so there were the GE and SP (non-scale) Dash-9 engines(18226 and 18228).  List price on these things was I think $600.  Also the Soo Lines SD-60 (18232, I think) was in this $700 range.

Back to the original topic. 

I like:

• the 8 door Hi cubes.
• the NYC Milk Car (assuming it's a new number I can add to my CCII Milk set)
• the Crane sounds building
• The logging camp building with sounds
• the log cars that match the Heislers to fill in some gaps in my... oh wait, never mind ... there are no sets of log cars listed to go with the Heislers?

That's the things that stuck in my mind after the first pass through Charlie's list.  (At the moment, I refuse to go to that disaster the Lionel site became last week)

-Dave

It's an impressive catalog, for sure.  The Chessie GP9 looks beautiful and would be an instant purchase if it were conventional and half the price.  Would like to get the eight-door Chessie box and the Chessie autorack, but both the curve radius and cost are prohibitive.

Sure would like to see some new O27 offerings, but their absence tells me they must not be good sellers these days.  Menards and eBay will be getting my train dollars again, but from the looks of it, there's a lot of options for others--and that's good.

Nice to see "the J" in there.    Next year maybe a switcher!!

Lionel certainly hasn't helped any.  The latest shipping schedule still has some of the CANCELLED 18" aluminum cars listed for delivery in early 2016!!!    So even Lionel doesn't know exactly what they're getting from China either.  Lots of mis-information out there. 

SUPPOSEDLY... a bunch of the 18" aluminum cars were cancelled when Lionel announced the new 21" ABS passenger cars.  I had the Texas Special 18" aluminum cars on order with Charlie Ro, and Charlie sent a memo in the mail (USPS mail) indicating Lionel had cancelled those, and gave me the option to order the new Texas Special 21" cars.  There were a half dozen or so 18" roadnames that were CANCELLED at the same time.

BUT Lionel did keep 4 roadnames as the last of their 18" aluminum production runs.  Those were catalog'd in 2015 Vol 1 and also reappear in Vol 2 as well.  Word on the street is these will be the last of Lionel's 18" aluminum passenger cars... and perhaps the last of Lionel aluminum production of all sizes period.  Whether or not we'll ever see them is anyone's best guess. 

David

This is getting be a real "rich man's sport." Not hard to understand why fewer and fewer people are entering O gauge. I was also looking at prices on the baby Madison cars for a Holiday layout - works out to $90 per car! Hard to believe.

I agree that $650 for a diesel is hitting the stratosphere, and the statement that "you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture" hit home. I might be interested in the Rio Grande GP-9, but after Lionel's extremely disappointing fiasco (to me) with their RG GP35s, where the catalog picture showed the correct orange paint and the production models had a grossly wrong dark red-orange, this GP-9 is a definite wait-and-see. 

Like the FEF's but at $1699 msrp and the E7's at $1000.00, $650 for a diesel, who are they kidding? My days of Pre ordering is over. Even the street prices are too high IMO. 

Isn't it interesting that many of the BTO items in this latest catalog have next to no detail descriptions listed???    A picture or two... a small blurb about "new tooling"... and maybe a spec for overall length and minimum radius.  That's it!!! 

I guess we just gotta believe!!! 

David

These Lionel versions would have been planned long before Weaver's demise. I suspect the catalog even went to the printer well before Weaver's announcement. 

A Legacy UP FEF with whistle missile.

OK . . . .

Other than that . . . . . 

Maybe an NS Veteran salute . . . 

Kinda ho hum

Accent on the Ho Ho Ho Hum

I like the SD38s with the Reading & Northern being my choice.  But WOW at 650 for a diesel!!!  Might have to rehash this one?

  Also where are the DUMMY units for the diesels?  Come on Lionel at least have some of these?

Those are 3rd rail prices. They make much prettier trains. Lionel has priced themselves right out of my market. Im just not interested in spending that kind of money for their products. I know I sound like a cheapskate and anybody who knows me knows I am not but holy smokes their products are just getting sooooo expensive I don't find them worth it.

Agree. Most people will look at that winning car, with virtually nothing on it but those two "L"s, and have no idea what it means. It may be interesting as an abstract design, perhaps, but as a commemorative car it reveals nothing about what it is that's being celebrated.

Overall a nice catalog. I am on the fence on the FEF...if I have the cash when it ships, maybe I'll buy it.

Definitely interested in the UP passenger set that will be in the next catalog!

There are some fine items in this catalog. The Double Door Boxcars are very cool.

One item I am interested in but missed the mark is the Gantry Crane. Since Lionel has the technology with the crane cars, why make this accessory Manually operated to raise and lower the boom operations?

I'll wait for a version that is completely Legacy or DCS controlled for all functions.

Otherwise I think this catalog has something for everyone.

Paul

While I wouldn't say that Lionel has priced themselves out of my market, I would say that unlike my spending habits in the past, because of the prices it would have to be a locomotive that I really really really want for me to preorder and spend that kind of money. Since there is no unstreamlined Legacy NYC J3a, my wallet is safe this time.

Not interested in anything.

"I thought I read an alternative for the Powerhouse 180 was coming. I am a little disappointed to see nothing about it in the catalog. "

The Powerhouse had to be redesigned from scratch and is expected in 2016 according to Mike Reagan on Notch 6.  The previous manufacturer went out of business and took the designs with them, apparently.

I think the Universal Lion Chief remote that can command control 3 locos at <$40 street price is going to be a big hit.  The milk cars are reasonably priced for one thing.  Lion Chief locos are reasonably priced for command equivalent locos that include a remote.  Mike Reagan also stated the accessories have been redesigned for greater reliability and lower amperage.

Seems like a nice enough catalog, though not much in it that I currently model.  A good thing, too, as my wish list is backlogged enough as it is!

I would be up for that and would think it would join the whistle steam tour some time in the future. I'll have a Niagara too while they're at it.

I love the veterans paint scheme Sd60E although the price may well prevent me from preordering. The gantry crane is excellent and might be the most popular with my kids. I am disappointed with the very limited number of Canadian road names.

The catalog online was an improved layout and was set up beautifully. 

Jay in Ottawa

Unless Lionel puts the correct tender with the Southern Railway "630" I don't think anyone will buy it.

Neal Jeter

Well, as of 15 minutes ago they've sold at least one!   Preordered.

Well after perusing the catalog I really didn't see anything that I really liked, actually I did but it's apparently not going to be for sale. I seriously doubt that many of those who "voted" for the winning design either will buy one at $85 or even have trains. It was a social media ballot and many times those are loaded simply with friends and coworkers who really don't care other than helping a friend win, which is a shame because it might taint the waters for another design your own contest in the future.

As a design for the 115 anniversary it lacks anything that says...

115TH ANNIVERSARY !!!

No prominent dates, no Lionel Trains other than the L and a small emblem on the door, lackluster graphics, boring same old, same old color scheme and the same look on both sides.

The second place one has many of the themes that make it special enough for an anniversary car and while at priced $85 a pop, for a one time car like this is not too outrageous. The third place winner while very patriotic really doesn't say anniversary either, it would make a great Independence Day car tho. I think it relied to much on the Go Team USA effect and missed the mark as an anniversary offering too.

I don't mean to sound harsh or too critical I think the ball got dropped on this one for an item that could have really been a stand out car. Lionel if you do revisit this idea please don't use social media, it's way too easy to stuff the ballot box, I know, I have been guilty of doing the same but for a much more noble endeavor and it lost out for pretty much the same reasons and our side came up short against an at best questionable opponent.

Well, that's my opinion on the subject, a little long but at least I didn't complain about a door placement or wrong style of headlight or a road name that never had one of those whatever it might be.

Jerry

After the first pass through the catalog, very little in my chosen road name (BNSF). The couple of BNSF items they did have are too big for my layout (O-54 & O-63) so no trains this time around. Some of the smaller steamers were interesting, but above my pay grade.

However, I am very happy to have a second chance at some of the accessories from the last catalog. Couldn't afford all that was on the wish list last time around.   I will also be ordering the command control building with sound that goes with the gantry crane I ordered from the last catalog.

Jerry, If lionel is showing the second and third place  BYO boxcars, perhaps they should just offer them to consumers as well.  The second place car looks good.  

Jay in Ottawa,  Hopefully, the next book have something for those who model CN, CP. 

From what I saw, NS 911 looks great and is the only engine that I acctually like, but I'll pass on it because of the high retail price. The only item I'm interested in is the 4 double door 86' boxcar.

Overall a very good catalog especially for a Volume II. I already posted my picks on another thread about "what are you ordering" so I will not repeat myself.

Unlike others I do think Lionel will sell plenty of the Southern 630 Consolidations, with the whistle steam effect you will forget about the not correct tender or even attempt to modify it to look like the actual tender (remember we are modelers). By the way someone was hoping now that Atlas who has bought the Weaver modes that they would produce a more accurate 630. Well all I can say is in the last ten years Atlas made one scale steam engine......one....1.......uno....don't hold your breath.

JohnB

Honestly???

IT SUCKS! along with their new website!

What's one of the most popular Lionel items of all time? If not the most popular?

A Santa Fe Warbonnet!

Lionel who does your marketing research? EVERYTHING Santa Fe sells out...so where is it? Not 1 engine in the catalog that interests me the least bit...not even a re-run of the FEF! 

Nothing jumped out at me so the wallet is safe. 

$1,000 for the E-7 AA units with only one powered unit. That is just plain crazy, hopefully there is a lot of room for dealer discounts.

   Bill T.

I love the FEF but the price is just ridiculous. I paid less for much nicer locomotives from other manufacturers. Whistle steam is just a novelty, I cant see it from more than 2 feet away. Laid off sick is right, where is the Santa Fe? Lionel has really lost its luster with me. With the Lion Chief starter sets being of the quality they are and them dropping the lowest price scout set their product line has lost its appeal

I'd be embarrassed to submit that 115th Anniversary Boxcar design, whats scary is that it actually won.

Robbie , that would be great if Lionel eventually used the ideas somewhere down the road. I do realize it wasn't an anniversary car per se but it just seems no one out there has any real imagination anymore or worse, they know what the public wants which is boring or cookie cutter and they market down to it. We see it here, not many are excited over the offerings, nothing seems to stand out. Might be because a lot of it is computer drawn and rings flat and unrealistic or that it's against a white or a poorly rendered background but it's rare that a catalog of anyone comes out and you'll say"I gotta get one of those" or "Man that's cool, have to figure out a way to get it.". Maybe we're just jaded and have so much to pick and choose from or have that something really needs to pop to get our attention.

Jerry

I think the catalog is OK. I pre ordered the 9-1-1 SD60-E. I'm not a first responder but like all who serve in the armed forces including my son I have a great deal of respect for all the people who put their life on the line for us everyday. Only being able to pick one I like the paint on the 9-1-1 a little more. I'll probably go for the B&M milk car to.

I am tempted by the Chessie and PRR GP9's.

Nothing jumped out except the Smithsonian car.  

My wallet is still in recovery

Jeez you guys need to drink more Kool Aid If you're not lovin' it. 

My my favorite thing about catalog days are all the arm chair production folks. I'm still waiting to buy the trains you produce. 

Anyone who carps about pricing or a lack of a particular model or road name needs to realize one simple fact.

Lionel has been around a lot longer before you and will be around a lot longer after you.

I like the Union Pacific FEF-3.  While FEF tenders were similar to those on Big Boys and Challengers, there are some subtle differences.  MTH appears to use the same tender for Big Boys, Challengers and FEF-3s while Lionel has a separate tender body for the FEF that is particularly suited to that locomotive.  MTH has used the same tender body design for their Pennsylvania Q2 and J1a locomotives even though the tenders on those locomotives were not identical.

Matt,

     I completely disagree with you about the smoking whistle on the FEF. The whistles on the legacy engines I own make them special. Do you think if the Legacy Y3s had a smoking whistle Lionel would be weathering them to move their getting old stock? 

JohnB

Whistle steam is here to stay.  What once was a cool premium option is now becoming a standard.

Laidoff sick,

Boy did you get out of bed on the wrong side. Lighten up I am sure Lionel will have Santa Fe in the 2016 Vol I catalog in force. They always do.

JohnB

The Legacy Southern Pacific 2-8-0:  put the marker lights on the sides of the smoke box, and use a Pyle National visor headlight. So what if these things add a few $. At least it's more correct. http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=2205017.

The PN headlight is on the Berkshires, why not here?

I like how, on page 68 N5/N5B cabooses, Lionel points out "DEFECTS."

Where are the proofreaders?

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

Well technically there is Santa-Fe motive power in this catalog.  Lionechief plus F units are listed.  Maybe not what your looking for. 

The only mildly interesting item was the SD38 in EJ&E.  I don't recall seeing that road's paint job before?

Art

Agree about the Southern trains--I was hoping for a set of Legacy Southern Crescent E-8s (with roof tanks).

Drifting further away from Lionel with each new catalog. More money, less to offer and fewer engines done prototypically. Not to mention super shiny paint jobs and protruding front couplers.

That is a big Ditto!  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ YALZA!

Maybe the SD60e and a Few cars. I am done.

You mean something like this ?

As much as I would have liked to see my entry win, there were some very nice other entries. I particularly liked Brian Moran's entry.  I thought for sure that one would be the winner.

Flash is Dead.

Its been dead for about 7 years now.

Dead, dead, dead, DEAD.

Come on Lionel how could you still be using flash on your website.

I deleted Flash from all my computers long, long ago.

That's my thoughts on the Lionel 2015 Catalog.

I like the offerings. I'll be buying some items.

romiller

Interesting. Ro has his preorder pricing notices out and up. If memory serves, he's usually as much as a week, or more, after others. Nice to see as he's one of my go-to Lionel dealers.

Btw -- agree with the others comments on the design-your-own 115th anniversary box car. Pass.   I do like the other version with JLC on it.

A wide variety of products at various price points.  The FEF is the only engine that interests me.  I feel that the product descriptions were weak, sometimes down right absent.  I feel that BTO product's features should be clearly spelled out in order for me to commit to the purchase.

The web site descriptions are also weak with many errors.  Smoking whistle is not listed as a feature for the 2-8-0s.  I am sure over time Lionel will dial the web page in, but right now it needs a lot of work.

I am SO glad to see Charlie Ro's prices out with everyone else's -- for no other reason to reinforce the message that he's still a viable source for Lionel pre-order items, and he recognizes that the world of pre-ordering BTO items has changed the dealer landscape SIGNIFICANTLY.  I know Charlie is a stand-up dealer, and many folks who've been around for years know it too.  But the younger audience these days is all about instant-gratification, where dealers ship product before the online website order is completed.     So when they don't see price guides up the same hour the website catalog goes live, they tend to not even know a dealer exists.  

Frankly, it never bothered me all that much that Charlie Ro's pricelists have typically come out a week or so after catalogs went online.  NONE of this stuff is ever available immediately anyway.  So what's an extra week or so... when you're ordering from a dealer as reputable as Charlie Ro?   I think what's different this time is Lionel has set a dealer pre-order deadline (at least for BTO items) of just over a month from the catalog's release date.  So that's really motivating dealers to scramble for pre-order business.

Nonetheless, I'm glad to see Charlie continuing to adapt these days.  He's seen a tremendous amount of retail change over recent years, along with lots of Lionel management changes.  And I'm sure it hasn't all been easy.  He's certainly earned a tremendous amount of business from me over the years... and I continue to order from Charlie to this day.  Yes... I do spread my toy train orders among multiple dealers these days, but Charlie still gets the lion's share (no pun intended) of my Lionel O-Gauge items.

David

I appreciate the era-specific paint jobs on the FEFs. They look beautiful, but they're well beyond my price range as a college student. (The VLBB has done me in for the foreseeable future.) If anything, I may preorder the NYC GP9. 

I'll also say that, while I don't see myself purchasing any, I do appreciate the wide variety of accessories introduced/reintroduced this time around.

Still hoping for a Legacy Niagara and VL Santa Fe F-3s in the future, but I suppose we'll see. Beyond that, the biggest item on my wishlist is DIY fixed pilots a-la-Atlas O; they make such a difference. I also noticed Lionel giving more scale-coupler-ready options, which is great; I hope to see more of that as well.

Here's to my wishes being granted in 2016!

Totally agree. I usually don't place preorders right away and it seems like Ro's pricing hits just about the time I've made some buying decisions. Nonetheless, was a pleasant surprise to see his email in the in-box when I got home this evening. 

Guess I'm one of the happy few 

FEFs-What's not to be excited about?  Road number specific Sellers or Worthington feed water heaters!  Whistle steam! Numbers other than 844!

UP 'Business train' announcement!   I'm excited about THAT!  Can hardly wait!

Weathered locomotives-H-7.  I want.  I'll make my other Legacy H7 a 'shopped' late UP version & change cab number.

By the way, I own all of the past FEFs and an H7.  

Those compaining about the FEF price: Did you really expect a re-release for the price 6 yrs ago?  

I won't say the catalog sucks, but that new website does indeed. It's the most confusing thing imaginable. Can't find anything. Incidentally, where did they hide the older catalogs?

STILL waiting for the Legacy Warbonnet F-3/7. Has to be coming soon. More folks will be heading to Atlas O for theirs. Atlas O prices are starting to look competitive! 

That got a laugh out of me, too, especially given the context in which it occurred: "Multiple Road/Road number defects include:

- Truck side frames

- End railings

- Steps

- Smoke stack position"

At least we know where to look for the "defects."  Defects, details, no big difference.

Errors aside, I do like the new N5's and N5B's, notably the PRR-Railway Express Agency Assigned to Passenger Service N5B (finally a caboose/cabin car for passenger trains) and the PRR N5 with the original end railings. 

BTW, the proofreaders (if they exist) also missed the misspelling of "included" on the oval on page 69, which reads "SMOKE!  INLCUDED IN N5B CABOOSES ON PAGE 69"

This catalog is great because they finally have the 8-door 86' High-Cube Boxcars ready for production. I only waited 35 years for these Boxcars to be made in O Scale.

Andrew

If you like the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern, you must order the EJ&E SD38 diesel loco pair in this catalog. You might not get another chance for EJ&E locomotives for several years.

Andrew

I think the NS SD60E's are great.....Lionel obviously heard many of us who were asking for them.  I just ordered the Veterans and First Responders versions.

I think the Smithsonian box car is great.  I hope they will issue a series of these.

The 115th Anniversary stuff isn't all that exciting, but I did order a T-shirt.

I am truly baffled at the winning box car in the Design A Box Car competition. 

I am disappointed that the LCS STM2 module was not listed.  It is still listed as a future product on the LCS page, but I was under the impression it would be available by the end of 2015.

I'm not a big fan of steam....only have a few of them, so I can't really comment on the locomotives in the catalog.

Lots of BIG rolling stock.

It looks like Lionel is heavily invested in LC+....an increasing number of choices.  And, as another example of Lionel listening to its customers, they are bringing out the LC+ remote to control 3 trains....way to go.

I tried to save some money for the MTH catalog....maybe I can buy a box car.

And it takes an 86' long layout to run them. 

I would like to see Lionel offer multiple road numbers for rolling stock.  One ATSF piggy back is all right...but four would have been really cool.

That would be a good idea, at least have two like MTH does with their Premier line.

The SD60E and SD38 were nice.  Still kind of surprised no modern era near scale items.  I like the scale items but they look kind of goofy on smaller layouts.  

My next biggest interest after trains is space flight so I'll be ordering the Smithsonian boxcar and it'll sit on my shelf for 11 months a year and spend one month going around the christmas layout being pull by a Postwar 2046 Hudson which will forever be my favorite engine. As for my basement layout nothing interested me which means I'll have just that much more money to spend when the next MTH catalog comes out

I really do not have an opinion.  No praises and no complaints.  Are the pilots on the GP9s and SD60Es semi-fixed?

Everybody will have to build modular, around the wall track layouts with O-54, O-63, O-72 curves to operate all the long locomotives and freight cars.

The track plans that the Lionel employees promote are much smaller tabletop track layouts.

They are promoting the wrong type of track layouts for the locos and freight cars.

Andrew

Great catalog!

1. Lionel wins the race to produce the SD60E's and I'm sure they will be fantastic! I think they will be very popular and a huge seller. huge release for a volume 2 catalog. Being a police officer I would buy the 9-1-1 if it didn't look like a fire truck.

2. Usually here is where I say "well another catalog with 0 EJ&E items, come on Lionel give me something!" I almost fell off my chair when I saw a pricing list Wednesday that had the two J units. 

THANK YOU LIONEL FOR THE EJ&E SD38's!!!!!

not trying to be greedy but I need a caboose now!

Art there are a few J units in service by CN that are rocking that scheme which is referred to as the "J ball" scheme, obviously because of the J in the green circle. My co workers always joke with me at work when we drive over the east Joliet yard and start yelling Hey Zett it's a  J ball!! when they see one.

very excited, EJ&E was huge in the Midwest and more of their items need to be made in O gauge.

3. Loving the whistle steam staying around And it looks like they are putting it into smaller engines. Wish it was in my light mikado!

Price for those SD38s is pretty high, maybe 20% higher than what I would expect but I will make it happen for J engines.

I like the consolidation locomotives, especially the Western Maryland one. Just one question. Was that type of tender ever used behind the 734? Really my only hesitation, and its more of just being curious. Not a deal breaker. All-in-all, pretty nice products.

I am both disappointed that I didn't really see much I am interested in, and relieved at the same time since I have plenty already pre-ordered from previous catalogs.

Some good looking locomotives in the catalog, but nothing in the railroads I like to collect/operate.

I will probably order the Smithsonian box car for displaying, but I'll probably pass on everything else.

Hope that some of you saw some stuff you want.

The FEF 3 is nice but I have the previous FEF in Legacy and  it is hard to beat,I think they are issuing it because of the UP passenger cars coming in the next catalog.So nothing for me.

Mikey

 I think it is a sloppy production. The Consolidations have no details or specifications. The catalog lists a bubble with whistle steam on it. Sound nice until you look up the part number on Lionel's website then the specifications are there with the sounds listed as:

  "8 diesel RPM levels". I am reluctant to pay $800 for something that will be delivered different from what might be promised.

Actually, to a large degree you can't even run them on smaller layouts. Lionel has dropped the ball (except for the Challenger) by abandoning the LionMaster line. I have no MTH electronics in place, but at this point am seriously looking at their Imperial J and EVO. No alternatives from Lionel.

I like the scale freight cars, surprised at how many are offered.   I am ordering the LC multi-remote just for fun, I don't really need it.   The new Lionel website is bizarre, I wonder what thought process went into the design.

There is some nice stuff in the catalog.And if you got the money get what you want.But there no way on gods green earth.$50.00 T0 $80.00 for a single freight car.Not gonna happen theres no way I am gonna spend that kind of money.On a single boxcar I will hit the used but in good shape market.If lionel want me as a customer.They are gonna have to meet me half way.

I skimmed through the catalog. It looks to me like there is a wide variety of merchandise that should appeal to those willing to spend the money. (I didn't really pay attention to the prices).

The only items that were of interest to me were the few military items that were classified as "Postwar Inspired" because I have been on a postwar military kick lately. But I won't buy any of the pieces. They are all duplicates (or copies) of items I already own. I don't need 3413 style mercury rocket launchers decorated multiple ways. One will do quite nicely.

No, but the original issue of these locos retailed at around $900 (catalog list price $1,159) and hiking up the catalog price to near enough $1,700 (street price some $350 less) seems excessive. At that level Lionel must be trying to tap the same market as the 3-rail brass importer(s), which won't work for the majority of people who buy brass, IMHO.

[P.S. At the price I paid for the first Legacy FEF3 (about $899 from memory) I regarded it as a bargain for the sound and smoke features it has. I don't think the same about the new models' pricing.]

Still, I'll go in for the 8444 although I've got the 3rd Rail version, which is a beauty but lacks the play value of Legacy sound, smoke and light. I passed on Lionel's earlier black FEF3, which I came to regret - until now.

I am also intrigued by the excursion car announcement. More than that I wonder what the catalog reference to a prototypically correct Mars hazard light function means. Is this any different from the Mars light on the original Legacy FEF3s? That's just a "blinker" that operates when the engine is stationary or in reverse, which may be what is "prototypical" about its operation but the blinking LED just isn't up to the standard of other Lionel Mars light simulators.  

[P.P.S. The Legacy boards and smoke units have changed fundamentally since the original FEF3s. I expect the smoke performance to be good; I wonder about an improvement in the Mars light. They could probably engineer it in but I'm not wholly optimistic they will even at the increased cost.]

The Milwaukee stuff will be hard to pass up.  The Lionchief controller is a must.  I liked it overall. The bridges have suddenly caught my eye.  I vote no on the new website however.  Maybe they take pride is hiding information or else it is no longer there. 

Late getting home last night so missed the excitement.

Website - I must be too old. Don't like it.

Catalog - lots of big stuff but I am not excited about anything. Last year was really neat and maybe I am in regression. Do plan to look harder at MTH in the future. Have very little of it.

Prices - Too much and do not see the value. The rate of increase is crazy high and I can't see it as viable.

Glad to see that many are pleased.

TNHokie - good luck Monday night.

Nope.  Partially, because before the 734 was the 734, it was LS&I 34.

Before:

After:

Amazing what a little elbow grease can accomplish...

As can be seen, the model has little resemblance, with the exception of wheel arrangement and lettering, to the prototype.

Rusty

Nothing for me as everything is too expensive.  I'm no longer buying new stuff and have switched exclusively to buying from the used market.

No talk about the silver Anniversary Berkshire ???

Dave

The 86' Hi-Cubes are excellent -  too bad no Santa Fe 8-doors - guess that'll be in the next catalog.

Nice to see the eight-door 86-footers. Although most of us knew they'd be coming anyway. I could see myself picking up two or three.

Overall I don't get hot-and-bothered if a given catalog isn't bursting with must-haves. Can't please everyone all the time. And it allows one to have some funds left over for the next company's catalog

As for prices...as has been said before, people keep buying 'em.

---PCJ

The prices are outrageous and there aren't any "must have" items for me.

I just glanced over the catalog and it looks Fantastic. There are many new color schemes and a lot of O Scale Locomotives to DROOL OVER. Remember, The Bitterness of Poor Quality, Long Remains after the Sweetness of Low Price has been Forgotten.

That's a Simplicity Motto....I think, and I could be wrong, but, this is a Huge Catalog that will give us, Senior Kids, a lot of fun to View.  I look forward to getting my hands on this Dream Book.....Happy Railroading...

I was really excited about the EJ and E SD38s until I saw that they require 54" curves to run. That makes them shelf queens at my house, and pretty expensive ones at that. If they ever make a dummy to go with them, perhaps I can get one of them for the shelf.

I think the boxcar contest might have been skewed a bit. The winner sure looks a lot easier to mask and finish than the other two pictured. If the final product has some more markings (such as a car number and road name), I may still get one. As it sits, I'll wait for the blow out sale.

J White

Like the Penn Central and Conrail SD-38 locomotives but I must say the prices on those two locomotives and the rest are really high.

The Lionel staff needs to promote the concept of Modular Layouts with O-54 and O-72 curves in the catalogs if there are going to be more Locomotives and Cars with those minimum radius requirements.

The table top track layouts are not going to allow people to operate these more realistically sized models.

Andrew

Where is the Vision Line? Really is it dead?

This catalog has a lot for the modern guys I'm really glad you guys got the SD60Es that you have been screaming about. Thank you Lionel for listening to these guys. It seams like they have really focused on those modern and 70s,80s,90s diesels.

As for steam, especially the big steam guys you have left us high and dry. Weathered H-7s and Y-3 that have been out for years. This is the left over chewed up bone you throw us? NO Whistle Steam? Still? Keep the weathering and give me a smoking whistle! Then maybe you can sell those things.

While I generally do not agree with the crowd that complains about prices, the FEF is way too much. I love the whistle steam but I'm not really into getting robbed. Seriously what where the marketing numbers and justification? Adjusting for inflation, this still does not make any sense. And no steam era version? Pass! maybe another vision line challenger from the used market.

So the 2-8-0s I love this little guy, whistle steam, fantastic. The price on this thing is amazing mid $600s for street prices? I get the missing detail and the minor inaccuracies but sounds like a great deal and fills the needs of the small steam guys that don't have large curves.

The Heisler is cool and again whistle steam!, a big complaint about this catalog is not enough info in the descriptions. Here is where I might buy but depends on the detailing of the gears and such. Also as there are only logging companies maybe not. I wish my Shay had whistle steam. Dang. Why this and not something in big steam or heck even a Santa Fe War Bonnet F3?

Lionel can keep the milk cars, I like the addition of B&O to the twin hoppers, caboose choices are limited along with steam era cars.

Bottom line... as a big steam guy... I have a favorites list of New Old Stock locomotives saved that I can better spend money on. Maybe finally integrate DCS for the MTH triplex I keep dreaming of as Lionel does not have the stones to produce.

I've been doing the same thing for several years.  I don't even remember the last time I purchased a new Lionel item.

Jeff Davis

The prices would not bother me so much If like the old days Lionel could repair what they sold ten years from now. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Did I miss something?  Has there been a lack of people stating significant out of the box issues for more recent items?  For a long time (at least 5-6 years or so now), the initial quality was getting worse, not better.  (probably not continually getting worse, but we had reached a new "normal" that produced lower quality than the past - and I am not digging back to post war or anything, just the earlier years of the millennium)

I have to believe the higher prices are more likely due to the cheap labor gravy train coming to a close.  It's now a lot more expensive to make things overseas.  I don't think the raised prices will coincide with improved quality (though I would certainly love to be proven wrong!!).

Waahhhh!  I opened all the packages under the tree, looked behind it and in the branches, and all I got was clothes!!  Lotsa Heislers, but all Triplex/Big Boy three

truck ones, not the 40 ton? ones seen getting their feet wet splashing THROUGH that

creek in West Virginia.  Somebody else mentioned that problem with Heislers that ain't

gonna run around a 4x8. I will look closely at the paper copy, at those, and the Rock

Island passenger cars, but.....

I'm in for a GP-9. NYC or PRR, maybe both. probably be my only purchase for 2016

I like the catalog even though I don't plan on getting anything. I have 3 LEGACY SD40s preordered from the last catalog so that's enough for now.

If I was to get anything it would be a couple of the 86' boxcars. I have 2 tracks with primarily O63 and O72 curves. I have 1 O54 and 1 O81 curve so these boxcars would work except that they would take out the other train since the tracks are about 3" apart. Also, with 9 Atlas 60' ACF auto parts boxcars I'm not sure I need more.

Lionel trains have always been a luxury item with corresponding prices.  My dad bought trains in the mid to late 50s and into the early 60s, and never bought anything until it was "clear off the shelves after Christmas sales" where stores marked things down to half price.  Buying at list price wasn't going to happen - those toys were expensive then, just as they are now.  I agree that Lionel is really pushing the high end awfully hard, but toy trains have never really been a purchase that was cheap when paying the manufacturers' list prices.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lionel has never offered Vision Line products annually.  And without beating a dead horse, the way Lionel has priced their Vision Line products recently (not to mention some of the non-VL offerings), the market can only absorb so much.  And i at least give Lionel credit for acknowledging that.

Frankly... If the FEF now carries an MSRP of $1700, do you really think a potential VL Allegheny (or whatever big steamer is on deck for 2016's catalog) is gonna carry a street price of $1995 like last year's Big Boy?  Hardly.

Bottom line... all these upward pricing movements with non-VL products are probably all being done to either (1) make folks feel better that they got a Big Boy for only $1995, or (2) lessen the blow for even higher pricing of the next VL product in the 2016 Vol 1 catalog.    There's always a method to the madness.    But no, I don't think Vision Line is dead at all.

David

I thought that the 18" aluminium passenger cars were going become a thing of the past. 

They had cancelled some sets last year and now have them in the new catalog. I wish Lionel all the best with 21" cars. I know they will run on 054 but even on 072 they look out of place. Just my opinion. 

Really like the new legacy NS SD60E's with their cool first-responder and veteran paint schemes.  At $549.99 discount price, however, with a delivery date 3-31-16, I'll take a pass.  Too much money, too long a period of time (still the kid my father railed about with his 'lack of patience'  ).  It was fun looking, though.

I always like looking at the new catalogs when they come out.

Since I'm' waiting on two LionMaster steam from the last catalog I was kinda sorta hoping some other lines would be in this new catalog.

Sure hope Lionel don't forget next year.

Larry

I am going to get a N&W SD60E Go Rail locomotive.  May go for a UP FEF and a couple of box cars as well.

Did anyone else notice the what appears to be thumbtack couplers installed on the 86' 8- door cars? Enough for me to say "NO" to purchasing them when Lionel makes a superior tab-operated coupler....

I'm not a fan of thumbtacks either, but I believe there's little choice when utilizing Klinematic couplers.

The new website is simply dreadful. Too much graphics, hard to find any useful information. Some hotshot webmaster was showing off his "skills" and convinced management that this is "the latest thing." They should have known better. I wonder if Lionel contracted out for that mess, and if so, how much money they wasted on it.

As for the catalog itself... 

First, the prices are absolutely breathtaking. $1000 (800 street) for an AA diesel with one unit powered? I like that Milwaukee Road E7 - but for that kind of money, I will do without. I could "afford" it, but it just doesn't seem like value for money. Likewise the scale rolling stock. There are some nice things there I'd like to have, like the flatcars with loads, but at $90 (70 street) for one car, I will most likely be able to resist the temptation. Maybe one car. There have already been plenty of comments about the pricing on the FEF - I agree. I think Lionel may be reaching the stage where even those of us with  fairly deep pockets balk at the cost - especially those of us who already have a closet or a storeroom full of trains. As has been said, a lot of these prices are in the 3rd Rail range. The Lionel engines have more operating features, but if the money is the same, a lot of people are going to prefer brass, even with obsolescent electronics. I am currently on the fence between getting a Lionel GP-30 or ordering a 3rd Rail SD-7. I'm leaning strongly toward the SD-7. 

From a Milwaukee Road point of view, there are some things there to like (if you can handle the price). The round roof boxcar and the stock car are redone versions of Milwaukee LRRC club cars, so I won't be ordering those. The orange 40' Milwaukee milk reefer is nice, but it's the same paint scheme as the club car from several years ago, and the club car was a correct (almost) 50' express reefer like the ones the Milwaukee had. I'm sticking with the club cars. The flat car with lumber load is tempting, but at 70 razbukniks I'm going to have to think about it. At least Lionel has finally stopped putting orange paint on Milwaukee Road flatcars (the real ones were all freight car red). The tractor-trailer looks great, but no way am I going to shell out $90 (70 street) for an 18-wheeler.

As to the passenger cars, the less said the better. Lionel has cleverly repeated the old MTH mistake of including a short dome car in the yellow 18" set, forcing the buyer to take a car that the Milwaukee never had. All the Milwaukee Road domes were full-length Super Domes.

I'm glad to see the Heisler back, and with whistle steam. I'd be tempted to spring for one, even at the current price, but my layout has no room for a logging line so I can save the thousand dollars for a Heisler. 

It's also nice to see the old Harriman Consolidation back, with new electronics and at a relatively reasonable price point. I'd be tempted to get the SP one, but I have two of the old ones so I'll let that go too. I would not bother with the Milwaukee Road version in any case; it bears no resemblance to any 2-8-0 the Milwaukee Road actually owned. I see some comments about the lack of authenticity for the Western Maryland as well. MTH has done several runs of a correct (mostly) WM Consolidation. 

It's mostly a pretty good catalog, if you can handle the prices. Personally , I will be buying one or two items at most, because of the cost.

I ordered the FEF #8444 and the NS Veterans diesel from Brian at Legacy Station.  Looking forward to both offerings. Also looking forward to the UP Excursion passenger set someday. 

I use to think Lionel's Volume 2 catalogs were a waist of paper but this one has some great offerings!!!

WISH LIST FOR VOLUME 1 2016: Norfolk & Western prototypical coal cars from the steam era to pull behind and push in front of my Y6bs. Make them plastic and offer them in 3/6 packs. A prototypical N&W steam era caboose would be a great bonus!!!!

Yes Lionel prices are high, but other manufacturers are not cheap either. In the last MTH catalog, they have the remade NS OCS F-units. Instead of being ABA, they are sold individually. An ABBA would set you back over $1000, while other single units are over $600. Atlas freight cars are $75-85 new and diesels are $600 or more. All manufacturers have roughly the same price point now, so it is more what your interests are and who offers those models. This has become SOP for prices, so we just better get used to it.

For me, I mainly acquire freight cars new while I search for new/used locomotives in the secondary market. This is my personal SOP for toy trains, unless it is something I absolutely have to own.

For this catalog, I may get the Smithsonian boxcar and will think long and hard about the Southern GP-9s. 

As far as a Santa Fe Warbonnet goes, they do repeat the FT Lionchief AA in Warbonnet livery from 2015 Vol. I.

I am getting a pair of the log car disconnects, the GN PS-4 Flat with trailer and the Pickering Lumber Flatcar with load. Also the lumberjack workers set.

No engines for me this time, but I just received the BN NW-2 Switcher which is re-cataloged in this volume. 

I second that request!!

Nothing really stood out for me.....

-Pete

Nice catalog!

The FEF as well as other engines (SD38) in the catalog shows that Lionel does listen and wants to give customers what they want. 

The last run of the FEF was a great engine and now its even better with whistle steam.  You can't expect to have whistle steam for nothing.  Its about $150 more and as I told them I would gladly pay extra for this feature, and I will.  I passed on the first offering and I'm glad I did since this one is a keeper.  The only problem now for me is black or gray!

The SD60Es look like a great product and are tempting but I'm just not a fan of the SD60Es.  But if you are I can see this is a great offering. 

The SD38s as well as the SD40s from the last catalog are another example of a great effort to satisfy customers and provide more accurate engines that are closer to the prototypes with the kinematic pilot, Kadee coupler mounts and road specific details.  Even though I still prefer MTH diesels with fixed pilots and full length handrails I'll still order these since I can add full length handrails myself.  Lionels better sounds and operation makes up the difference for me. One complaint I have with Lionels diesels is the wobble mostly due to the traction tires.  Lionel, can you improve this? And one request.. your sound quality is awesome, but some of the diesel horns sound like a goose has swallowed a harmonica.  Another sounds like a violin on steroids.  Can you please make these sound like the prototype.

Last comment.  The E7s I'm sure will be nice as the E8s were, however the two E8s I have are underpowered and can not pull a modest size train (15 cars) up my 2.5% grade.  I had to add some weights to improve this but they still can get stuck.  I should not say power but tractive effort.  There is probably plenty of power.  I know Lionel has always had only one powered A unit but I can't spend that much money on an engine that can't pull.  I know powering both A units would make it even more expensive, but how about a B unit?  Or better yet at least allow customers like me to buy two powered A units.  In other words sell the A units separately including the dummy.  This way I can buy two powered A units with different road numbers.  Otherwise I will not be buying any more AA diesels. 

With that said, still a good catalog and I appreciate Lionels efforts.  Good job!

Rich

I really like the fact that this catalog has redefined what a "Volume 2" catalog can be.  But Lionel has really entered a new space with pricing.  The irony is most folks will rationalize the prices one way or another.

Nobody is expecting whistle-steam for free... It's just tough to stomach a $200-$250 increase (in street-price) over a similar class steamer w/whistle-steam from last year (i.e., the Pennsy M1A with its huge tender).  But yes... Folks will definitely buy the FEF regardless.  Enthusiasts will find a way to make the purchase work for them:  perhaps by not buying something else, or perhaps selling an existing piece to apply the funds toward the FEF.  The price point always gets a bit blurry when folks don't need to bring as much "net new cash" to the table.     And for those who purchased an earlier FEF version at a better price, they'll chalk up the price premium of this newest version to "dollar cost averaging".  That works every time!    

The Lionel pricing folks play us toy train enthusiasts like an orchestra.  And we're such a predictable group, we make it super easy for them to make sweet music every step along the way.    We're all guilty of it.

David

Dave,

My ability to justify pricing increases was at it's threshold over the past couple of years and it's now been wiped out.

I had been on the fence about jumping into the bigger engines and the 072 curves that they require. I will now pass on that and stick with what I have.

I won't be buying the FEF even though it was one of the locos on my Son's short wish list. I would feel like I was lining up to be robbed if I did.

Frankly, I'm sort of glad that Lionel is moving in this direction. It was the slap I needed to cease my spending and lock down with the small collection that I currently have.

I'll "third" that request!! 

Wise words, indeed!

-Pete

....The Lionel pricing folks play us toy train enthusiasts like an orchestra.  And we're such a predictable group, we make it super easy for them to make sweet music every step along the way.    We're all guilty of it.

 

David

Yes, they sure do.  They love seeing threads like "Lionel should make..."  Easy picking.

Find a used past issue FEF.  Prices are already dropping, one sold this past weekend for about $600 (the hard to find black version!).  Another sold for $650 last friday.  Two days prior to the catalog release a Grey FEF (easier to find) sold for $850!

I suspect that all this handwringing about Lionel soaking the consumer is ignoring the realities of production of high end locomotives.  Lionel is just about the only manufacturer producing stuff that requires new tooling, and they are doing quite a bit of it.  This is despite the almost certain dramatic increases in production costs in China, the substantial decreases in consumers interested in high end three rail O gauge, and the resultant striking increases in overhead per item produced.  I'd guess the high end stuff is made in quantities of 1,000 or even less these days, compared with several times that in the 1990s and 2000s. 

One only has to look at the costs of less expensive and higher volume items like the Lion Chief stuff and Lion Chief Plus.  The new command equipped three loco remote is peanuts compared with Legacy and DCS.  The locos are all at street prices a fraction of the high end.  That's what volume does for you, even with new tooling.

The high end is going to be ever more expensive as the volume sold decreases and production and tooling costs increase.  That's the reality I see.

I agree there has been SOME new tooling. 21" passenger cars, new frames on PRR B6 0-6-0s, maybe a few more but how does a structure that was being blown out at 12-15 bucks just a few years ago now carry a price tag of $79.99? No new dies required here. 

Does adding a hole for whistle steam and another smoke unit add 200 bucks to the cost?

Pete

Volume.  As in low volume. High production costs per SKU.  Simple Business 101 if I'm right about most of these discrepancies being related to production costs and overhead for low volume items. They obviously expect to sell many thousands of the new Universal Lion Chief  Remote.  Hence the MSRP that's significantly less than the building you show. Volume.

Because of what I collect/run, the only thing I would've bought was the second place design your own boxcar. Since it didn't win, I'll continue not buying new.

>>>I agree there has been SOME new tooling. 21" passenger cars<<

The jury is still out on how well received 21" (86') cars will be.

Some here make it sound as though (18") 72' cars are not prototypical. 

IMO,  in real life all styles of 86' cars look way to extended with an almost ugly gap between their undersized trucks.

64' & 72' cars in O gauge just as in real life just look better all the way around.

Joe 

I'm very excited about the UP Excursion 21" cars next year.  Especially if the "FLAG" car is included in the set!

Ditto in my case. The "Flag" baggage car that MTH did a few years back is impossible to find in the secondary market. 

"Some here make it sound as though (18") 72' cars are not prototypical". 

18" cars are more practical for most of us who do not have the real estate required for 72+" radius curves.  For me, the 18" cars are a good compromise vice the full scale 21" cars, which would look ridiculous on my layout.

The PRR b6 appears to be the exact kline tooling from 2003. 

The 2-8-0's shown in the latest catalog appear to be the same, tired tooling first introduced in the 2000 catalog. 

I believe that the investment ownership group sets the course and they are not interested in making only a modest profit.

72' (18") cars "ARE" full scale. So are 64' (16") cars. The real question you need to ask, did the RR your modeling ever run 86' cars (21") especially during the earlier steam era??  Most did not...

Joe