Lionel 2025 Locomotive, drive wheels lock up

You know I can't say for sure this would be your problem.

But this I do know for sure: I see FAR TOO MANY photos and videos made by people, who have set an engine that is not being run directly onto floor carpeting, or walked on floor surfaces. And this doesn't exclude a layout surface where one has used indoor/outdoor carpeting.

Or another photo I saw recently was from a guy who had torn up his old layout. There was debris all over the board surface, and lo and behold, a engine that I know has plastic gears was set right onto the debris covered layout surface.

This is real no-no, and again especially for plastic gears. It's so easy for recently greased gears to pick up a small piece of dirt or grit and that's all it takes for the gears to bind up.

The fix would be to take either an old toothbrush, or better yet, a small stiff bristle brush like the type used in art class, a brush the gear teeth outward away from the locomotive frame. After each brush movement, wipe the bristles off and the repeat. The rotation point where the gears don't move, is most likely the location where something has gotten into the gear teeth. Hopefully you can jiggle the wheels (the gears) back and forth enough to brush outward and remove whatever has gotten into the gear teeth.

And this isn't to start a debate over plastic versus metal gears. I've got dozens of engines, some almost 50 years old with plastic gears, and I've NEVER had a problem. A little caution and common sense goes a long way. And metal gears aren't immune from breaking either.

If you have a floor layout, set a engine not being run on a magazine or newspaper that everyone has read, or a clean piece of cardboard. Or get a few extra sections of track for placing that resting locomotive - or an operating car that has a gear drive.

It sounds like the gears are worn and skipping a tooth causing the drivers to go out of quarter.

Is it possible that one of the fiber brush plate or armature bearing plate screws got loose?  If the armature shaft and its pinion gear got out of alignment it might cause lockup.

These locos are really overbuilt with bronze bearings, etc.  If the bearings are worn to the point of being oval this could happen, and then it would be time for heavy repairs, pulling the wheels, etc.  Hopefully that’s not the case.

I agree checking the gears very carefully for missing tooth or dirt. I had a similar issue on a 2055 and flushed the gears with spray electrical cleaner and that cleared whatever was jamming it. I then greased and it was fine.

An unobtrusive part decay may be causing your problem.  To check it, try the following:

Remove the eccentric crank screw (pt.# 2035-6 or #736-30) and the Valve gear screw (pt. # 226E-33) to disassemble the eccentric rod, also known as the 'valve gear assembly' (LH: #226E-22; RH #226E-52) from the loco.  Remove both sides.  If you examine the rear of the eccentric crank, you should find two little 'nibs' which allow the eccentric crank to locate itself correctly and lock into position. Fascinatingly, if these 'nibs' are broken off, or even worn, the eccentric crank will still assemble into the center drive wheels correctly!  However, without the locking mechanism of the crank, after continued operation of your engine, especially at high speeds, the eccentric crank(s) may slip into the wrong position, causing a lock-up as you are describing.

If even ONE of the little nibs is broken off, then you need to replace that eccentric crank. (Pt. # 226E-19 - same for right and left sides).  As a matter of general practice, if I find this problem on an engine that comes into our shop for repair, I will always replace both cranks.  If one has worn that much you can bet the other one will not be too far behind. The crank is a cheap part, a couple of bucks, and most part dealers have them in stock.

You'll probably have to get the crank rivet (700E-53) as well, to facilitate proper assembly.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Len Carparelli

L & L MTC Ltd

If removing the rods and valve gear doesn't unlock it or stop the repeàted binding (run without body); gears clean,  broke or worn? rocking on gears shafts? rocking axles? (ovaled/worn bearings..check moving left wheel fwd/up; right- back/dwn & visa versa (left to right play- check if gear to wheel tracking is off...mind the gauge and that some lateral shifting is needed in curves(& blind drivers limit that  need too)

I'm betting it mostly needs axle bushings, specifically the rear driver bushing on the gear side and maybe its gear/shaft.

Thank you to all for the replies. I have ordered Greenbergs repair manual which I saw as a tip here. I won't see the train again again until xmas day, thank you and Happy Holidays to all!

Best regards,

russel

Here are the service manual pages for the 2025 locomotive:

The '47-'49 model

The '52 model

Remove the side rods and valve gear and observe if the loco runs properly. If it does, attach the rods and valve gear on one side of the loco only and try again. If it runs, remove the rods and valve gear and attach the opposite side valve gear and rods to the other side of the loco and test it.

Also make sure the drive wheels are tight on the axles and not loose. If they are loose, they will spin on the axle under power and lock up the rods and the engine.

Larry

Russel, I know there's a lot of folks throwing valid ideas out here, and a lot to look at, but here's one I'm working on right now. It also locked up as you described, and it jammed at a couple of points with each wheel revolution.

As you can see, there's one missing gear tooth (4 o'clock position), while the rest of the teeth are looking pretty ragged. However, the root cause here is the crack along the outer edge, close to the gear teeth. It's a long crack that follows the circumference of the wheel, very close to the teeth on the upper edge, plus there are some much shorter radial cracks at the 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions. 

When I first removed the wheel, I didn't see the cracks because they were covered in dirt and grease. Even after using the toothbrush to try to knock out what felt like debris locking the teeth, it still didn't help. A quick cleaning with a Q-tip and alcohol revealed the cracks, and what is obviously an early stage of zinc pest.

The cure is a new wheel, which Jeff Kane readily supplied and now we are back on track. Good Luck!!!

George

@GeoPeg very instructive!  What postwar loco is your wheel from?  I thought the Zinc Pest issues were pretty well sorted out by the 1950s.  I know replacement wheels were readily available, but as these trains get on 80 years old, even the new old stock replacement wheels may begin to crumble.  Would just like to know which ones to watch closely.  Thanks!

Ted S posted:

@GeoPeg very instructive!  What postwar loco is your wheel from?  I thought the Zinc Pest issues were pretty well sorted out by the 1950s.  I know replacement wheels were readily available, but as these trains get on 80 years old, even the new old stock replacement wheels may begin to crumble.  Would just like to know which ones to watch closely.  Thanks!

1666 steamer, bought off da bay. Just liked the looks!!

I have a 47 or 48 2025 with withthe Baldwin disc wheels, and the same symptoms once upon a time. I found that one of the axles of one of the flanged wheels was worn just enough on one side to allow it to work itself loose, and the gear of corresponding wheel on the other end of the axle would be be engaging and disengaging with the surrounding gears, causing them to bind and stop in an identical fashion to what you described. Now my solution might make some cringe since I enjoy this hobby on a shoestring budget, and I don't have the proper tools to do axle and wheel work, so bear with me. The knurls on the axle were ever so slightly worn to allow the wheel to work itself loose while running, however I couldn't reposition the wheel without a good bit of force. For a while my solution was to gingerly lift the wheel off the axle enough to re-allign it by wedging a flathead screwdriver under the wheel and twisting it to lift it, alternating sides to keep it straight, and then once re-alligned, I'd press the wheels back together with a large pair of channel locks. It kept working itself loose until one day, I repeated this process, only I added a bead of  blue loctite to the axle, and it's been atl three years since I've had a problem.

Wes97 posted:

I have a 47 or 48 2025 with withthe Baldwin disc wheels, and the same symptoms once upon a time. I found that one of the axles of one of the flanged wheels was worn just enough on one side to allow it to work itself loose, and the gear of corresponding wheel on the other end of the axle would be be engaging and disengaging with the surrounding gears, causing them to bind and stop in an identical fashion to what you described. Now my solution might make some cringe since I enjoy this hobby on a shoestring budget, and I don't have the proper tools to do axle and wheel work, so bear with me. The knurls on the axle were ever so slightly worn to allow the wheel to work itself loose while running, however I couldn't reposition the wheel without a good bit of force. For a while my solution was to gingerly lift the wheel off the axle enough to re-allign it by wedging a flathead screwdriver under the wheel and twisting it to lift it, alternating sides to keep it straight, and then once re-alligned, I'd press the wheels back together with a large pair of channel locks. It kept working itself loose until one day, I repeated this process, only I added a bead of  blue loctite to the axle, and it's been atl three years since I've had a problem.

No cringing!  Been there, etc. I use Loctite BLUE on all the axle/wheel combos that still fit reasonably well. On those that have a wheel that is completely loose, I pull the wheel off, remove the remaining wheel/axle combo and check it for fit and straightness, reswage the axle using a small cold chisel, and put the whole thing back together with RED Loctite - that stuff holds! 

George