Lionel 700E-2 Hudson What can you tell me about it?

My dad passed away last year, and I finally got his storage unit cleaned out. I knew he had this as he had shown it to me several times. It was kept in a cardboard box wrapped in newspapers from 1987. There are some other cars with it. He said it was his pride and joy (yet he never ran it or displayed it).

He says he modified it, but never told me how. I have not tried to run it, is it DC?. I can see the tender may have been painted or it has decals. The front swings open and won't stay shut.

Attached are a pile of pics, tell me what you can please?

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

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Not sure exactly what you have there but I hope some of this information can help. It looks like a 700e but the piping details are not as refined as what is on  the true 700e piping. The lettering is a water decal which was used with the 700k's but again not quite the same. It looks like it could be a 763e that was modified with the extra piping detail to try to make it more like a 700e. The tender base is also not the usual refined casting Lionel used and does not have the usually Lionel lettering. Could be a Madison Hardware tender with the metal casting coal load. The engine has the center roller pick ups and the motor looks correct for 3 rail so I would guess that you have a 3 rail engine.

All in all, nice engine and a sentimental link to your Dad, hopefully you will enjoy it for years as he did.

Regards, Craig

I agree with Craig, a modified 763.  Probably made between 1938 and 1942. The locomotive would run on DC, but it was designed to run on AC. If there is a whistle in the tender, DC will not work.  If it has not been run for many years, do not try to run it until it has been disassembled, cleaned and re lubricated. The old grease can lock up the worm gear and putting power to it could damage the motor if it can not turn. These locomotives can be difficult to dissemble without damaging something. You should find someone knowledgable with prewar 700e locomotives to help

The 700e-2 number on the frame is the frame part number. The 763's shared various parts with the more detailed 700e's. You will find many parts on the 763's with 700-x part numbers. Although they did make special order 700e's with center drivers with no flanges on the Driver Wheels it still looks to me like a modified 763.

Regards, Craig

WELL PIDDLE!

sigh™

Found detailed pics on line of 763 and 700e.....

I can see what you are talking about, My dad did say he modified it, I know he said it was a pre war hudson, I did not know there were more than one.

I see that he added details that are not on the 700e or the 763.

His modifications have caused me problems in the past, when he asked me to sell some of his RailKing locomotives. Someone asked me about a detail in the picture of a steam engine we were selling, and when I pulled the locomotive out of the box some parts fell off, I asked him about it and he said he had made it "more accurate"..... had to notify all the bidders, finish the auction cancel the transaction and wait 8 days to relist.

Now I don't have a real 700e, and I don't have a real 763 either. Thanks Dad! and he berated my nephew for weathering his trains.

Guess I will clean it up, and display it.

Also taunt my sister with it's "immense value".

Thanks.

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

It is not the Holy Grail but certainly a nice engine and it will make a good runner.  As pointed out the 1937 Scale Hudson platform was used for a number of future production engines based on that scale size chassis and frame. This hybrid locomotive would also make a great display piece. 

Builder of the Hill Lines ( New Delta Lines). Recreating history for the model RR community.

Well, I don't think it is a modified 763. The 763 has a drawbar on the rear truck of the locomotive and this one has the double drawbar and pin assembly, only used on the 700E. Id say it is a 700Ex kit. the x is for deep flange/blind driver set. Repo Madison hardware or Kramer reproduction tender kit.

I have compared it to images of 700e's and it's not correct, some of the pipes are too big, some pipes on the unit are not on the 700e or the 763, and there are a whole lot of discrepancies. If you want I can post pics of what I found, it is definitely a 763 made to look like a 700. There are parts of the body that are cast on the 763, but not on the 700. 

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

FLINX,

   I would have to see the engine and look it over carefully, however you maybe right about it being a 763E.  Remember there were slight modifications to the Hardware Store models, and you Father further modified the engine himself, which should mean a great deal to you personally.

At any rate it's a prize, if it were my Fathers or Grandfathers, I would have GGG or MartyF professionally restore it, leaving your Fathers custom work, and I would base my entire Train Room around my Fathers Pride and Joy.  

Congrats on receiving a great piece of family history.

PCRR/Dave

Along with our Families Double Guns, our Tin Plate Trains are Treasured family possessions.  The memories they provide of my Father and Grandfather, especially at Christmas time, are priceless especially to me.   Maybe yours are the same, that all depends on you.  

A Pair of 263E Work Trains, the original Gun Metal Gray Lionel on the inside Track, the Light Gray MTH P2 Repro on the outside Track.  Family Memories!

DSCN1628

 

 

Never worry about what other people think, be strong and walk in the way of the Lord.

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Now I don't have a real 700e, and I don't have a real 763 either. Thanks Dad! and he berated my nephew for weathering his trains.

Not looking to buy your loco, but I've been interested in Lionel items that were customized by their original owners for a while now. I guess I could say it started with a 1946 726 Berk that needed paint, so I did it myself in grey with a black steam chest. I have a modified turbine, a custom painted 1947-49 726 Berk, and two different sets of modified Postwar Budd cars. One set has a Lionel power unit with AMT/KMT dummies, which I don't think were ever offered. If so, the original owner must have made them up from parts.

In any case, if my dad had done that Hudson, I would cherish it as it is. 
If I had a layout with appropriate curves, I'd run it.

Looks like "700E-3" is cast in under smoke box door in second to last photo.  

 Any trains from my father are on display as is. 

Any PW trains lost down through the years have been replaced with similar contemporary scale counter parts and nostalgically run regularly,

For an interesting treatise on reflection check out Augustine's "Confessions"  chapter 10 on memories.

"Now I don't have a real 700e, and I don't have a real 763 either. Thanks Dad! and he berated my nephew for weathering his trains."

Poor baby. Seems to me that your engine has great value precisely because it was modified by your father. Unless you have issues.

The scratch built structures that were on my layout as a kid were built by my father (1950's, 1/4" plywood and skill), are handsome, reasonably scaled, and occupy a place of honor on a shelf. They are far more valuable to me than any fancy structures costing hundreds of dollars. 

I was fascinated watching the entire disassembly of your dad’s Hudson; I liked your comments on your dad’s history in that you were not making judgements about his “idiosyncrasies”, just the facts. His interest in adding detailed piping to the Hudson maybe not making it accurate to what a model/ prototype would be is an interesting mix/ balance of his personality that he expressed— don’t you think?? I was trying to “talk to the video” to “look at the smoke box for more screws” as you were taking things apart!! 😀 Looks like you saw the description of reverse E unit that you trying to figure out what the solenoid did. That lever in the back must be the E unit lock for locking the Hudson in forward or reverse so it does not drop out each time and go to neutral every time power is removed. Look forward to seeing your next steps!!!

Carl J

Carl J posted:

I was fascinated watching the entire disassembly of your dad’s Hudson; I liked your comments on your dad’s history in that you were not making judgements about his “idiosyncrasies”, just the facts. His interest in adding detailed piping to the Hudson maybe not making it accurate to what a model/ prototype would be is an interesting mix/ balance of his personality that he expressed— don’t you think?? I was trying to “talk to the video” to “look at the smoke box for more screws” as you were taking things apart!! 😀 Looks like you saw the description of reverse E unit that you trying to figure out what the solenoid did. That lever in the back must be the E unit lock for locking the Hudson in forward or reverse so it does not drop out each time and go to neutral every time power is removed. Look forward to seeing your next steps!!!

Carl J

Thank you, I have never taken apart a model train before, but I also never repaired a tube radio until I did, never built a generator until I did. I knew these trains had a reverse unit, but never knew how they worked, they are just a solenoid activated reverse switch. I plan on putting it back in circuit if it is usuable.

Thank you for watching the whole video, you have a lot of patience. I get criticised all the time on my channel from impatient people who can't watch videos that are longer than a minute or 2.

I will talk more about my dad in future videos, he was..... different (not bad, but not like other peoples fathers). people should look to my signature before passing judgment on my comments about my dad.

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

Someone got me a link to the 700k assembly manual. It's was on Lionel's site, it's badly scanned and about 1/5 of each page is chopped off, but it will be helpful in putting the the loco back together.

sigh™

Sadly I am now finding out that I am missing some parts mostly linkages and other little fiddly bits. I am now wondering if my dad had gotten a hold of a kit, or an assembled kit locomotive, whatever it is, it's a mess.

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

Thanks for recording all your efforts. Not easy to go through a custom made/ altered Hudson and totally re-wire,  rebuild the e-unit, figure out the linkages as to what works/ does not work; what needs to be changed, etc. Yeah, all those little parts, screws, nuts, etc are very hard to see, let alone take apart and put back together. Continued good luck and patience!!

interesting detailed history of your father’s life with the fire department and interest in model trains. You have a lot of wonderful pictures of your family growing up!!

Thanks for sharing!

Carl J

Flinx posted:

WELL PIDDLE!

sigh™ 

Now I don't have a real 700e, and I don't have a real 763 either. Thanks Dad! and he berated my nephew for weathering his trains.

Well, look at it this way. It was your dad's engine, not yours. You just inherited it. It was up to him to do with it what he wanted. As long as it gave him enjoyment, that's fine. He didn't do things to it in order to satisfy other people, or have any obligation to do so.

Children almost always have things they wish their parents had done differently; that's just the way it is.

CharlieS posted:

Now I don't have a real 700e, and I don't have a real 763 either. Thanks Dad! and he berated my nephew for weathering his trains.

Not looking to buy your loco, but I've been interested in Lionel items that were customized by their original owners for a while now. I guess I could say it started with a 1946 726 Berk that needed paint, so I did it myself in grey with a black steam chest. I have a modified turbine, a custom painted 1947-49 726 Berk, and two different sets of modified Postwar Budd cars. One set has a Lionel power unit with AMT/KMT dummies, which I don't think were ever offered. If so, the original owner must have made them up from parts.

In any case, if my dad had done that Hudson, I would cherish it as it is. 
If I had a layout with appropriate curves, I'd run it.

AMT/Auburn never listed a dummy RDC in their catalogs/promotional newsletters. Kusan/KMT cataloged a set in their color, full line catalog that had a RDC powered unit pulling a couple dummy RDC trailers. Given the lousy motor the RDC came with, they probably burned out pretty quickly trying to pull a load.

Your videos are interesting, especially since I'm in the midst of repairing several postwar locomotives and tenders. I must confess I skimmed through these, however, I am definitely going to go through quite a few sections of each carefully. Thank you for doing these!

 

I started my channel because I buy electronics for projects off of ebay, most of them come from china and have bad manuals or in some cases no manuals at all. I figure out how they work, and post a video about them. Weirdly enough one of my most viewed videos is me putting together a cheap portable grill.

My most recent hobby is fixing tube radios. I have posted all sorts of how to's and other threads on unusual radios and equipment if I can't find the information on line then I make a blog post or a video about it. I'm no expert but many of the things I post prove to be very helpful to other people. sometimes even as a how-not-to-do something.

Wait till you see my next project, fixing my dads "prized" 182 magnetic crane. It's all messed up and I will have to make a controller for it.

Then there is some American flyer stuff. Supposedly my dad had a prototype American Flyer locomotive. I have to find that as I think he had 2 AF locomotives, I can't remember if I sold the one that was a complete set or not.

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

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My dads Storage in Issaquah after we hauled off 2800 lbs of junk, donated all the furniture, and moved his fire truck to another storage unit, just before loading all of it on to the 25 foot u-haul to bring it home. Thanks to Dave Hikel, he packed it all in.

and a picture of him with the small layout I built in his studio apartment.DSC02096IMG_20140512_124757061a

Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

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