Lionel cab 2L future

There are no announced plans for any physical remote but a continuation of production of the CAB1L.  My crystal ball is in the shop, so that's all I know.

No.  Why would they when a smartphone has the touchscreen and can have as many buttons and screens as one could conceive.  Development of a comprehensive application makes much more sense.  

@RixTrack posted:

No.  Why would they when a smartphone has the touchscreen and can have as many buttons and screens as one could conceive.  Development of a comprehensive application makes much more sense.  

@RixTrack,

If you're being facetious feel free to ignore the following.  If not please read and consider this:

Thanks for dismissing the OP's comments as trivial and unworthy of serious consideration.

Using a smartphone for control of trains is not simple, it's definitely not a no-brainer, and it makes poor sense to too many people.

In case you haven't been following things on the forum very closely, a spirited discussion fires up at least once a week over the suitability of a phone in control situations.

Simply put many people maintain that a smartphone is a poor device for controlling things that move because of the need to take your eyes off a moving train in order to get your finger in the correct position to activate one of those many buttons, and the imprecision of the touch of a finger on glass.

It appears that you've conveniently left out the fact that this discussion exists, and you're also summarily attempting to close out the discussion because it does.

Know that the issue is far from closed, except maybe by two large manufacturers/marketers that have no problem ticking off their long-time customers.

Thanks for attempting to shut down the debate before it's finished but that's not going to happen, especially in such a flippant way.

Mike

I'm afraid Mike does make some good points stated above. For me, my medium-sized layout has been built out for years now and I've been happy with a 2 train operation and even happier with a transformer for each loop (a Lionel CW80 and a Lionel 180w brick). For control I use one Lionel Base 1L and 2 Cab 1L remotes, one for each loop. What could be simpler?

This system has worked well for several years and I'm not about to change anything or move up to the next level of control, whatever that may be. As far as a smartphone vs. a hand-held remote, I prefer my Cab 1Ls. If they ever fail, then I will revert back to conventional control and probably begin dismantling the layout and sell the trains. The layout is nearing the end of its life anyway.

I will not or have any desire to run trains, or anything else with a phone.

We wouldn't be here if a standardized control system had been in place, DCC like H O has had for years.

@feet posted:

We wouldn't be here if a standardized control system had been in place, DCC like H O has had for years.

But we are here, and, unfortunately, wishing we were somewhere else won't help anything.   Seems the train control world has moved to a software-based land, where hardware obsolescence doesn't present a problem. Much easier to let Apple and Samsung worry about that.

I spoke directly with Dave Olsen about this.  There are no plans to make a new hardware remote to replace the Cab 2.  Its a matter of economics.  He explained that to design and build a new remote with screen displays, in today's economy, would cost $1000 or more.  They decided to go with an app based on this cost.  Dave also said that if the economics changed in the future they would consider building a new remote.  While I don't like an app for controlling trains I can understand their decision.  Whats the point of building a remote if no one is willing to shell out that kind of money?

Thankfully I have a cab2, and I recently acquired a Cab 1L.  Lionel is still making the Cab 1L so at least they are still making a basic remote.  Lionel must still see the value in a hardware remote since they continue to make the 1L.  So the best suggestion would be to use the app when doing advanced programming when you need the app but when just running trains, use the cab1L.  Its a compromise I can accept to help keep costs down.

@breezinup posted:

But we are here, and, unfortunately, wishing we were somewhere else won't help anything.   Seems the train control world has moved to a software-based land, where hardware obsolescence doesn't present a problem. Much easier to let Apple and Samsung worry about that.

The fact that neither the DCS or Lionel app hasn't been updated in years looks like Apple and Samsung aren't worrying about our little corner of the world.  The idea of using a retired phone went out the window for the Lionel app, it doesn't work on a Samsung Galaxy Note 4, but does on my Samsung Galaxy S21.

If I have to use a current phone for a remote, news flash, remotes cost $1,000 right now!

As long as we keep buying their products, there is no incentive for either manufacturer to listen to what the customers want. The only thing that will possibly get the message across is if the manufacturers start choking on their supplies or stop receiving enough "BTO" orders to remain viable. Nothing will change unless the money stops flowing. End of story.

@Joe Fermani posted:

He explained that to design and build a new remote with screen displays, in today's economy, would cost $1000 or more.  Whats the point of building a remote if no one is willing to shell out that kind of money?

Used cab 2s are getting over $1000 on the secondary market.

A base without a handheld at $500 isn't exactly cheap either.

Plenty of modelers have no problem dropping $2500 for 1 locomotive but find it ludicrous to spend $1000 on a remote that can operate many locomotives.

No one wants to spend $1000 on the cab 2 as it's been produced, but a properly upgraded/ revamped version "might" coax folks to open their wallets.

How many people have sold off their Tmcc locomotives to buy the same model with extra whistles and bells for substantially more? How many VL bigboys does anyone need? Yet there have been subsequent runs with the same enthusiasm every time.

Like many of you have mentioned, I prefer using a handheld that has physical buttons and the red speed controller.  Running trains with my phone or I Pad and touching glass buttons does not interest me at all.  I will buy a Cab 1L as a backup and alternative controller, since it looks like I may some day have to use that full time.

I still think the future of the hardware remote will or should be a hybrid of a smart device with a dock that contains the basic controls.  You will still be able to update those special features while maintaining the most used controls.  I know easier said than done.  In reality both systems could map the same functions to the controls.  Of course you would need to be able to adapt to different device sizes and such but it seem plausible.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If I have to use a current phone for a remote, news flash, remotes cost $1,000 right now!

While I do agree with that,  how many would complain that a new cab remote costs over $1000. I don't like lionel's decision to go with an app but I understand it.  Touch screens are not precise enough for my taste to control a moving machine.  A good comprise could be to offer a new remote without screens but give you full legacy control.

I'm not seeing the screen as the major stumbling point, toys come with LCD displays.

@MartyE posted:

I still think the future of the hardware remote will or should be a hybrid of a smart device with a dock that contains the basic controls.  You will still be able to update those special features while maintaining the most used controls.  I know easier said than done.  In reality both systems could map the same functions to the controls.  Of course you would need to be able to adapt to different device sizes and such but it seem plausible.

I like this concept.  Basically the phone app is what we are already have on the Cab2 remote

Feet is right in pointing out that if the O scale manufacturers would have come up with a standardized control system years ago, O scalers wouldn't be in the mess we're in with PS1, PS2, PS3, TMCC, early Legacy, current Legacy, and Lion Chief series. Rather ridiculous when you think about it.

And although Breeze is also right in suggesting that it is what it is and that we can't do anything about it now, a standardized control system that HO an N scales have had for years, sure would have been nice to have in O. An airline pilot friend who's been in HO for years just chuckles when ever I mention something about Lionel's latest Legacy features. He has all standardized DCC stuff, including lights, sounds, wireless hand-held remotes, etc., and it's rather impressive. Not to mention a more realistic looking layout with 2 rail track instead of 3.

And DCC works just fine on 3 rail track, the problem is all those thousands of DCS, TMCC, Legacy, AC motored loco's everybody all ready owns. As mine die they are getting DCC replacement decoders, but very few people have a small enough roster to make that kind of change. The decoder I use along with the higher watt speaker and the keep alive ( think BCR ) cost about $200 with tax and shipping per loco. But I get one hardware remote that runs my MTH, Lionel, K-Line,  Williams, and Weaver loco's. The only one I can't run with DCC is an old lionel scout I got from my uncle that has an AC motor. As far as new loco's go, all PS3 engines will run on DCC, so MTH and Atlas are a go.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The fact that neither the DCS or Lionel app hasn't been updated in years looks like Apple and Samsung aren't worrying about our little corner of the world.  The idea of using a retired phone went out the window for the Lionel app, it doesn't work on a Samsung Galaxy Note 4, but does on my Samsung Galaxy S21.

If I have to use a current phone for a remote, news flash, remotes cost $1,000 right now!

Don't know about certain android phones, but my 7 year old iPhone 7 Plus works for this, which can be purchased for less than $100. I guess there's an assumption that Lionel will have to upgrade their app with the rollout of the Cab 3.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Feet is right in pointing out that if the O scale manufacturers would have come up with a standardized control system years ago, O scalers wouldn't be in the mess we're in with PS1, PS2, PS3, TMCC, early Legacy, current Legacy, and Lion Chief series. Rather ridiculous when you think about it.

The existence of DCS as a separate control system is because Mike Wolfe refused to "partner with" Lionel and use the then-existing Lionel TMCC control system, like Atlas O and 3rd Rail did. He insisted on developing his own control system, apart from Lionel. As a result, there are two different O gauge control systems.

Don't Digitrax and NCE still make DCC remotes? Instead of what appears to be a difficult and lengthy process of just getting a new base into production, why couldn't Lionel contract with another company like NCE or Digitrax to develop a new remote? Those companies have the expertise in building remotes. Although it would require them to come up to speed on Lionel's command protocols, I can't believe it would be that difficult a problem.

Lionel just doesn't seem to have enough staff to keep up with the Legacy applications in the engines and accessories while simultaneously developing a new command base. Contracting out development of a remote could be feasible.

Ken