This has certainly been an exciting week in railroading and a thrill for any of us in the hobby. Don't worry, we're taking lots of notes back here and have "boots on the ground" gathering more information for us for a lot of upcoming announcements. But while the "big locos" are getting all the attention, we've got another date-appropriate new product announcement to make! 

We've been dropping plenty of hints, so I don't think there is too much doubt as to what's behind the blue curtain on Lionelstore.com - but even if you've been following closely, I promise you'll see some new surprises tomorrow!  Since our soft announcement at the National Toy Train Museum last month, we have made some amazing upgrades and with the help of new historical data will have the most accurately decorated models of these famous locomotives ever produced. To get the most information possible, you're best source will be our Facebook Live presentation tomorrow morning (5/10) at 9 AM Eastern. (That will give you all plenty of time to pop your next bowl of popcorn for the other big events out west later that day!) I've got a lot of great new information to cover, so please join in!  The video will be available on Facebook afterwards for review, and I'm sure someone will be kind enough to copy a link or upload here as well for those who don't Facebook.

Happy railroading everybody!

Ryan Kunkle

Director of Production, Lionel LLC

Original Post

Ryan....how about someone at Lionel post a link here since a large number of the forum folks don't do FB and still fewer in recent months with what has been happening in social media....THIS is the place to post your video!!

Alan Arnold
CEO/Publisher
O Gauge Railroading magazine
adman@ogaugerr.com
800-980-OGRR (6477)

I enjoy a good product tease (à la Menards).  But I'll have to wait for the online write-up since I don't do facebook or any other social media.  To finesse Craignor's earlier post, I hope this Lionel announcement is with the same get it done spirit, commitment, planning, execution and May 10, 1869 completion of the Transcontinental Railroad.

 

You can have a steam train ...If you'd just lay down your tracks.

Since the announcement is most likely a live stream the best you will get here is a link to the video.  You do not need to be a Facebook user to access the Lionel page and watch the video.  I'm sure one of our members will post the link after the live announcement.

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Awesome Treksgiving dinner with Captain Kirk"

 

I was shocked to hear that they weren't going to have sounds. "It won't fit" is a poor excuse IMHO. Perhaps they should have retained John Z. He was making good strides at making all of the electronics smaller. This is one of the problems with proprietary electronics. No competition or incentive to improve. DCC is much smaller with equal sound quality, better motor control, and also has the ability to control smoke units.

-Jonathan

 

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Ryan....how about someone at Lionel post a link here since a large number of the forum folks don't do FB and still fewer in recent months with what has been happening in social media....THIS is the place to post your video!!

A wise idea, I have banned FB, Instagribe, and Tweety bird in my kingdom anyone caught with any of that social crap on my infrastructure in my kingdom will be banished to the dungeons.

So saith I king John

I know where I have been, I know where I am at, I am hopeful I know where I am going.(The devil and God are talking it over).

Conrail6358 posted:

This has certainly been an exciting week in railroading and a thrill for any of us in the hobby. Don't worry, we're taking lots of notes back here and have "boots on the ground" gathering more information for us for a lot of upcoming announcements. But while the "big locos" are getting all the attention, we've got another date-appropriate new product announcement to make! 

We've been dropping plenty of hints, so I don't think there is too much doubt as to what's behind the blue curtain on Lionelstore.com - but even if you've been following closely, I promise you'll see some new surprises tomorrow!  Since our soft announcement at the National Toy Train Museum last month, we have made some amazing upgrades and with the help of new historical data will have the most accurately decorated models of these famous locomotives ever produced. To get the most information possible, you're best source will be our Facebook Live presentation tomorrow morning (5/10) at 9 AM Eastern. (That will give you all plenty of time to pop your next bowl of popcorn for the other big events out west later that day!) I've got a lot of great new information to cover, so please join in!  The video will be available on Facebook afterwards for review, and I'm sure someone will be kind enough to copy a link or upload here as well for those who don't Facebook.

Happy railroading everybody!

Thanks for notifying the forum about the announcement.  I would not have been aware without your post.  I think it's great when you and Dave engage with the group here.  Inevitably, there will always be a vocal minority of detractors that probably don't have first hand experience with your products anyway.

The 4-4-0s look great and I'm happy to see that you guys are producing them.   

kj356 posted:

Expect it will look something like this in O scale, but with a bit more detail and accuracy then my painted up O scale models;

150d150e150f150g

Closer to "prototype" than you may think.

Back in 1969, the UP "borrowed" the V&T 22 (Inyo) and 18 (Dayton) to stand in for the 119 and Jupiter:

(Trains Magazine 05/69)

Rusty

Attachments

Photos (1)

For those who don't "social media" (funny, I always considered a forum like this to be VERY social...) here is a link to the video from our YouTube page: https://youtu.be/Tt3d3EgAjT0

Dave and I will be doing a follow up on our next Ryan&Dave show as well and you'll see these featured in Volume 2 this July of course.

A few highlights for those who want the Cliff's Notes version before getting back to 24/7 Big Boy video marathons:

7 4-4-0s (including 2 pilot models) with

  • LEGACY, DCC and conventional operation
  • Die-cast and brass construction
  • All new tooling
  • Designed from the original O'Connor Engineering replica drawings
  • New decoration schemes for 119, Jupiter and Pennsylvania all based on the latest historical research and analysis from the leading historians on the subject (We're actually going to backdate the PRR a few more years for a more polished look based on a call I had just last night, look for some updated art on that one next week. She's going to be stunning!!!!)
  • Leviathan and York based off of current replica appearance
  • Each model uniquely numbered
  • Built to order

4 Add on passenger car 2 packs - one car equipped with Railsounds so you'll be able to add sound to your train

An additional non-sound 2 pack of Woodruff Sleeping Cars to further expand your trains. All of the cars which don't have sound electronics inside will have interiors with painted figures

All of these products are available for preorder now through lionelstore.com AND through your Lionel dealer. We also have a special limited set (150 pieces) exclusive through our online store. Please go there to see more images and order information. The order window on these will likely close around the first week of August so that we can get this to our factory on time for an anticipated early 2020 delivery.

Whether you decide you have to have one of these for your collection or not, I do hope you'll take a close look at these models. Speaking personally, I've always felt that this era of railroading is one that offers so much potential and reward for modelers and historical interests alike but is too often overshadowed by the later and larger locomotives. The updated color schemes of Jupiter and 119 reflect decades of research by some dedicated and passionate historians, several of whom I've had the pleasure of knowing personally for many years and who were kind enough to lend their latest efforts to us for this project. For our part, we have worked with our design and manufacturing teams for more than a year to bring you the most accurate models possible of these important pieces of our history. Like the originals, they are works of art - well tuned to the art of work. The first five were ordered the minute this project got the highball...     And with the requisite emoji now attached, it's time to step off my soapbox and get back to work.

Ryan Kunkle

Director of Production, Lionel LLC

I waited for this announcement before choosing to comment.

Detail appears to be nicely done on the passenger cars.

If HO can be made with sounds and smoke, then this could have.

At the very least,  a smoke unit could have been added (they were 30 years ago) and Legacy instead of Railsounds 4, in the passenger car.

Good marketing....now you have to buy and additional product to get sound.

 

Soo Line posted:

I waited for this announcement before choosing to comment.

Detail appears to be nicely done on the passenger cars.

If HO can be made with sounds and smoke, then this could have.

At the very least,  a smoke unit could have been added (they were 30 years ago) and Legacy instead of Railsounds 4, in the passenger car.

Good marketing....now you have to buy and additional product to get sound.

 

Soo,

I’m with you!  They should have “Smoke” & definitely Legacy Railsounds !!!

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by the no sound and smoke situation.  Lionelacknowledged this when they did the "soft" announcement at the TCA Museum during York week.

The adding of sound in a car is new, but I can't imagine anyone legitimately thought Lionel was going to change their mind and decide it was possible to put sound in the engines themselves when they said it would not happen only less than a month ago.

I may go for a set of the 2 main engines and a few cars.  We'll see.  The only negative with the adding of sounds in the car, is now one will not be interior detailed, since it obviously has to hide the electronics. 

A big part of the attraction to items like this for me (Heritage Series -  BFOC, John Bull, etc.) is the details on the pieces.  Having one look out of place due to the sound electronics being hidden inside is a compromise I'll have to think about.

-Dave

The posting from Ryan above mentions sounds in the coaches (I would have to assume the CP AND UP sets.  The Lionelstore descriptions do not mention any sounds at all, or at least I didn't see that.

Ryan  Would you please verify if there is another set to be listed with sounds or if this is an oversight to be corrected.

Thanks

Gray Lackey

 

 

 

 

Soo Line posted:

I waited for this announcement before choosing to comment.

Detail appears to be nicely done on the passenger cars.

If HO can be made with sounds and smoke, then this could have.

At the very least,  a smoke unit could have been added (they were 30 years ago) and Legacy instead of Railsounds 4, in the passenger car.

Good marketing....now you have to buy and additional product to get sound.

 

I agree in general 

But speaker size means allot, and placing it in the passenger car will probably give better sound. However, I am not that interested in the passenger cars and would be more interested in period freight like flatcars and other types. That leaves the engine soundless. Sound could be included in a boxcar, perhaps the next catalog will have matching freight.

Dave

I'm very excited for these models, they look beautiful! Now the decision is which one to buy! The lack of smoke and sounds I'm not surprised about since they are such small prototypes, most other 4-4-0s in O gauge are either oversized prototypes or repainted generals (other than SMR) so it's nice to see brand new accurate locos on the market! 

Bachmann is offering in HO the UP and CP 4-4-0s probably over size but with DCC and I think sound for less than 1/4 the price of a Lionel O model. I know they are partly brass but Legacy electronic must be large compared to DCC.  

Well...  I just ordered my set..   love that you get free cars in it!  And ordered a set of UP and a set of CP cars...

Will have to dream about that PRR engine and cars for later...

Thanks Lionel for a fantastic 150th celebration!  Now going back to rewatching 4014 videos!!!!

 

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

I think that Lionel is doing a great job trying to duplicate some historic railroad equipment but it is well before the period that I model. The Amoskeag factory in Manchester, NH produced many 4-4-0's right into the 19th century and they kept getting larger so that there were more than a few of them purchased by the Boston & Maine Railroad and its predecessors and competitors. That later size may be something of interest to me.

Art

B&MRRHS

LCCA

LOTS

I'll clear up the technical/features:

  • Locomotive has motor and headlight LED.
  • Tender has the Legacy electronics. This includes the BEMC, radio board, and track IR.
    • Using the BEMC means the engine will not be speed tuned to be able to lash-up with other types of Legacy locos, but two of these 4-4-0s can be lashed-up. Using the BEMC also means these have DCC capabilities as well as conventional operation.
    • Legacy means 200 speed steps, track IR, lighting features, and more.
    • RUN/PGM switch under toolbox detail

 

The separately sold passenger car that is equipped with sounds will include the following:

  • RSL3 - Legacy RailSounds. Quilling whistle!
  • RUN/PGM switch and volume pot
    • For best operation, the loco and sound car will be programmed as the same TMCC ID number
  • 40mm speaker standard in our Legacy engines. While it's not possible to fit the sounds in the engine/tender, using the sound car allows us to fit in the electronics/speaker that makes Legacy RailSounds better than any other system available.

 

Hope this answers any lingering questions.

Dave

 

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Landsteiner posted:

" love that you get free cars in it!  "

Didn't see that offer.  Details?

The pre order set at lionel store comes with both engines and a two pack of cars for a penny.  I viewed it as kinda an incentive to order this limited to 150 pieces set!

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

For those who like the idea, but not the price, you can get sounds and command control in a LionChief version of the Promontory locomotives with universal remote for under $500.  Obviously not scale, not brass or diecast.  Not as much detail.  This is the O gauge equivalent of the Bachmann HO set, with a less favorable retail discount structure, I'd guess.

https://mrmuffinstrains.com/products/l-1923080

Am I correct that for the set with two passenger cars at $2199 they expect full payment now for a product not to be delivered until 2020?  Not terribly comfortable with that concept, so I think if I spring for this set,  I'll go through a dealer and pay for the passenger cars when they arrive.

 

Landsteiner posted:

Am I correct that for the set with two passenger cars at $2199 they expect full payment now for a product not to be delivered until 2020?  Not terribly comfortable with that concept, so I think if I spring for this set,  I'll go through a dealer and pay for the passenger cars when they arrive.

 

In my mind, I'm thinking that my credit card would be charged upon shipment; not to be charged now.

That's a good question that may have to wait until Monday and a call to Lionel.  

 

 

RT   

Sad indeed that these new 4-4-0's have no smoke, no engine sounds, no steam whistle, no bell, no voice and are way over priced at $2200 for the pair.  What is inside the tender?  Providing "something" in a trailing car reminds me of the Railsounds box car from yesteryear, not acceptable in today's expected techno world.  Also, where is the history of this occasion?  Much of it belongs in the engines.  Also it should have been provided in depth with the introduction of the product.

Lionel should rethink this product.

Bob R

Bob R posted:

Sad indeed that these new 4-4-0's have no smoke, no engine sounds, no steam whistle, no bell, no voice and are way over priced at $2200 for the pair.   What is inside the tender?  Providing "something" in a trailing car reminds me of the Railsounds box car from yesteryear, not acceptable in today's expected techno world.  Also, where is the history of this occasion?  Much of it belongs in the engines.  Also it should have been provided in depth with the introduction of the product. 

Lionel should rethink this product.

My sentiments exactly.

-Mike

pingal70 posted:

Don't really understand. If sound can be put into an HO or even an N scale loco, why not here? 

Quality expectations. Larger speakers larger drvers, etc.  are used and that gives O better sound reproduction capability; louder and with a much lower htz range than smaller gauges can hope to have. 

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





These models are almost as small as HO gauge locos and no doubt have much larger motors than the HO models,  so these may be a combination of reasons for the lack of space in the loco.  Existing boards in use for sound and command control are designed for much larger locos, and would require costly redesign is another guess.  May be totally wrong, but these seem possibilities.

Landsteiner posted:

Am I correct that for the set with two passenger cars at $2199 they expect full payment now for a product not to be delivered until 2020?  Not terribly comfortable with that concept, so I think if I spring for this set,  I'll go through a dealer and pay for the passenger cars when they arrive.

 

The charge is made when the sets ship in 2020...

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

I would actually like to see something produced we could use and model in our lifetime like BF-50-5’s, AF5’s, BC70-6’s and FMC5’s.

Jim, There are still a multitude of brass parts on these locomotives. Steam and sand domes, pilots and more details than I'd like to count. The decision to go die cast on the "large" parts is two-fold: first, the decoration on these locomotives is much more complicated than any other steam locomotive we've done with the possible exception of the Nashville for the Lincoln train. Applying this deco the same way across the entire production run requires the use of paint masks and fixtures. With brass construction, the tolerances simply wouldn't be tight enough to deliver a consistent quality product.

Second, with the size of these locomotives every bit of extra weight we can get on there will help with performance. Space is at a premium on these models as has been discussed at length above. Just enough room in the loco for the can motor, just enough room in the tender for the BEMC board. Down the road, especially with the work being done in engineering our HO line, perhaps we could squeeze more in, but for now while the electronics are getting smaller, we're not there yet to where we can deliver not only features but the quality of features you've come to expect from a LEGACY locomotive in something this size. We've tried to illustrate that with the diagrams and images in the video but I think when people get the chance to see the locomotives first hand that will make the challenges crystal clear.

Of course an added bonus is that we now have tooling for the core of two great 4-4-0 designs that can be used as the starting point for more great models from this period with additional brass add-ons. 

 

To those asking about ordering through Lionelstore.com, payment will not be collected until the items ship. 

Ryan Kunkle

Director of Production, Lionel LLC

  There is a glitch and freeze on the Youtube Video at 16:53-17:10. It did it twice. Not a huge impact info wise, but spoils the close.

Looks nice 😎

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Conrail6358 posted:

Jim, There are still a multitude of brass parts on these locomotives. Steam and sand domes, pilots and more details than I'd like to count. The decision to go die cast on the "large" parts is two-fold: first, the decoration on these locomotives is much more complicated than any other steam locomotive we've done with the possible exception of the Nashville for the Lincoln train. Applying this deco the same way across the entire production run requires the use of paint masks and fixtures. With brass construction, the tolerances simply wouldn't be tight enough to deliver a consistent quality product.

Second, with the size of these locomotives every bit of extra weight we can get on there will help with performance. Space is at a premium on these models as has been discussed at length above. Just enough room in the loco for the can motor, just enough room in the tender for the BEMC board. Down the road, especially with the work being done in engineering our HO line, perhaps we could squeeze more in, but for now while the electronics are getting smaller, we're not there yet to where we can deliver not only features but the quality of features you've come to expect from a LEGACY locomotive in something this size. We've tried to illustrate that with the diagrams and images in the video but I think when people get the chance to see the locomotives first hand that will make the challenges crystal clear.

Of course an added bonus is that we now have tooling for the core of two great 4-4-0 designs that can be used as the starting point for more great models from this period with additional brass add-ons. 

 

To those asking about ordering through Lionelstore.com, payment will not be collected until the items ship. 

Ryan, any plans for scale Texas and General offerings? 

Steve

So, after some reflection,  I placed an order with my local store for the traditional line LionChief General Set version as shown on pages 70-71 in the Lionel 2019 Vol. 1 Catalog. 

I get both Promontory Point locos in the traditional size, etc., loaded with features, and all for half the price of one new hybrid model. What’s not to like?

Different strokes for different folks. I salute Lionel for stepping up with alternative offerings to commemorate this historic milestone and give its customers a choice in how to participate.

Well done!

romiller49 posted:

Hey Bob R, that’s what makes this a great hobby. If you don’t like an offering then do as you have decided and simply don’t make a purchase.

I get it that BOB R and EDDIE G can't afford the product, I can't afford everything either, but what I don't understand is why anyone would post something such as "are way over priced at $2200 for the pair".

To make your post really useful "to support your point as well as for Lionel to understand what customers such as yourself want" is to provide feedback on what you do think the price should be.

Why even take the time to post your position when you can type a few more words and get your message to the staff of the company that can make the change?

So if the engine is too expensive at 1100 each or 2200 for the pair, then how much should the engines cost? Really, how do you come up with your number, even if just for forum discussion?

Let just assume to buy the legacy electronics is roughly 300 dollars, as a starting point, new tooling, engineering, research, marketing, manufacturing, distribution, profit per unit etc. all a have cost. Given the limited units to be made, and I think 1100 is probably a little low (based only on what I have read so far).

BOB R and EDDIE G, what is your cost breakout on what the price of the units should be?

Charlie

Conrail6358 posted:

Jim, There are still a multitude of brass parts on these locomotives. Steam and sand domes, pilots and more details than I'd like to count. The decision to go die cast on the "large" parts is two-fold: first, the decoration on these locomotives is much more complicated than any other steam locomotive we've done with the possible exception of the Nashville for the Lincoln train. Applying this deco the same way across the entire production run requires the use of paint masks and fixtures. With brass construction, the tolerances simply wouldn't be tight enough to deliver a consistent quality product.

Second, with the size of these locomotives every bit of extra weight we can get on there will help with performance. Space is at a premium on these models as has been discussed at length above. Just enough room in the loco for the can motor, just enough room in the tender for the BEMC board. Down the road, especially with the work being done in engineering our HO line, perhaps we could squeeze more in, but for now while the electronics are getting smaller, we're not there yet to where we can deliver not only features but the quality of features you've come to expect from a LEGACY locomotive in something this size. We've tried to illustrate that with the diagrams and images in the video but I think when people get the chance to see the locomotives first hand that will make the challenges crystal clear.

Of course an added bonus is that we now have tooling for the core of two great 4-4-0 designs that can be used as the starting point for more great models from this period with additional brass add-ons. 

 

To those asking about ordering through Lionelstore.com, payment will not be collected until the items ship. 

Don’t get me wrong. I prefer diecast steamers. It just caught me by surprise when I heard these would be brass hybrid models. I also welcome the possibilities of more 19th-century steamers — especially a scale General and the Wm. Crooks. 

Jim R. 

I for one am excited to see these being offered.  As for the no sound and smoke in the locos, I totally get this after installing DCC with sound in a Lionel 0-6-0 Dockside.  It almost doesn't fit!  And do you have any idea how much it costs to develop a micro multi layered PCBA?  The fact they did what they did with Legacy is amazing!  After getting to see 4014 up close and personal this last week, and then seeing this announcement on the drive home, this has been a great week.  I love these older and more colorful style steamers, and am happy to see some that won't look like cheap plastic toys and are still not super expensive.  I saw those LGB ones this week at Ogden, they look like big plastic trains, not worth the $10k they are asking, IMHO.  So instead of saying only fools will spend that, I'll just simply not buy myself some.  As for these Lionel ones, I'm going to order them as I think they are worth my hard earned money.  An I hope Lionel does make some freight and other cars for them in the future, as well as other styles of early locomotives, not just 4-4-0s.

 

Now about DCC on them.  They really have DCC?  What about the sound cars, will they also respond to DCC?  And will you publish the CVs in the manual, or on the website?  Will you be able to adjust the CVs?  I'll be running MTH PS3 and LokSound L equipped locomotives with DCC, and would love to be able to program them all to the same function keys on my remote, as well as speed match them.

And another question for Dave since he said they have DCC because of the BEMC.  Does this mean that other recent BEMC locomotives like the Heisler and the LionMaster Class A also have DCC already and I can run them that way? That's make me so happy I wouldn't have to take them off the track when I switch between the two command systems (Legacy and DCC.).  I would love if all Legacy locomotives came with DCC going forward.  Legacy is still my favorite command system, but DCC is wonderful for my older locomotives to upgrade to command from conventional.

To be honest, I was excited when I heard about these engines, but alas, price and lack of sound and smoke was a disappointment. They would have been 99% displayed and run on special occasions only. Been wanting to make a diorama for years on this historic event.

But, mostly because of cost. I have decided and because of mostly not a full time engine on the layout, I'm going with the HO engines and add the cars I need for display and a small diorama of the event.

Kudos to those that will purchase these and hopefully come problem free.

sinclair posted: 

Now about DCC on them.  They really have DCC?  What about the sound cars, will they also respond to DCC?  And will you publish the CVs in the manual, or on the website?  Will you be able to adjust the CVs?  I'll be running MTH PS3 and LokSound L equipped locomotives with DCC, and would love to be able to program them all to the same function keys on my remote, as well as speed match them.

And another question for Dave since he said they have DCC because of the BEMC.  Does this mean that other recent BEMC locomotives like the Heisler and the LionMaster Class A also have DCC already and I can run them that way? That's make me so happy I wouldn't have to take them off the track when I switch between the two command systems (Legacy and DCC.).  I would love if all Legacy locomotives came with DCC going forward.  Legacy is still my favorite command system, but DCC is wonderful for my older locomotives to upgrade to command from conventional.

Yes Dave, please tells us more if these can be run with DCC. To me that would be a huge game changer, eclipsing wi-fi or bluetooth as it would allow adding custom features to our engines.

Pete 

@Conrail6358

Ryan I appreciated your historical synopsis at the outset of your presentation.  It was very well stated.   I also appreciate the attention to detail on this project.  The image of this locomotive next to the O gauge General really demonstrated how small this engine is.  Clearly that made this project very challenging.

I do not appreciate the all too common negativity posted by those not interested in the locomotive.  You don't like something?  You can't afford something?  That is fine, but why are you compelled to tell the world?  It is not like those posts offered constructive criticism, just a bunch of complaining.   

I hope this project is a success for you and Lionel.

kevin

@Conrail6358 Ryan, took me a few days to see the presentation, great by the way. You said you'll do a follow up on the next Ryan & Dave show and these will be featured in the V2 catalog out in July. So this would mean production time should yield most likely next year?

I really like that these are scale and are tiny to the locomotives we are used to seeing. I'm slightly disappointed that there's no smoke, but given how little space is there I can understand why. I'm sure that if there was a way to get a smoke unit in there, it would be. Can't wait to see the next Ryan & Dave show to give more info on these.

I've been waiting for what seems like an eternity for Lionel to finally produce a true to scale 4-4-0!  I've read all of the above discussions regarding the lack of smoke a sound from the engine.  It is very obvious, that many on this site lack the knowledge needed to discuss such a subject in any detail, yet they elect to pipe in the loudest regarding their notion of perceived short comings.  

Of those who believe Lionel could use HO boards and sounds in a O Gauge model can't be serious.   Those boards aren't designed to carry the loads that an O gauge model would need to operate the functionality you so desire nor the sound system you are seeking.  Also have you ever looked at a REAL 4-4-O and compared it to late 40's engine?   If so you would have noted how much smaller these machines were than their more modern counterpart.  And in O Scale they will look more like something between S Scale and HO.  Thus the available space for electronics' is severely limited.

Lionel indeed could have spent a lot more money on the project trying to squeeze everything in, but would you be will to pay for the significantly increased product development costs?  I think not.   From what I've seen of their product presentation it looks like to me that they've spent a great deal of time and energy in developing a true scale model of these two iconic locomotives.  Many kudos to them for taking on such a project.

I look forward to seeing these and picking one up as they will look great on a layout.  The inclusion of "brass" piping and detail is a huge plus in my book.   They've tried to capture the look and feel of the actual machine from a long ago era.  

Good going Lionel, and don't pay any heed to the naysayers on this website.  Just keep up the good work you are doing.  

Think and act positively and good things will come to pass.  This is true for all things in life.

Kazar

C&O H8 Allegheny: The heaviest & most powerful bad boy to ever traverse any rail.

Well, I ignore the usual anti circle L posters....

The good news is we all get to have an opinion...

The Lionel two pack set will most certainly sell out, with just the 150 being offered...  its fantastic to get both golden spike engines being offered with the latest and most accurate decorations and with two FREE passenger cars!  I personally know of 5 sets selling in the first few minutes, and i know several other friends of mine will no doubt be ordering...  UP fans and collectors...

I think the pricing is just as i expected to pay.  These are ONE TIME offerings.  Highly detailed SCALE engines.  I am very much looking forward to these...

 

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

My prediction: These innovative items will sell out--all of them--well before they reach U.S. shores. Although costly, the price one is willing to pay is based on how badly one wants the item (I would like to have both the Jupiter and the 119 myself) and how much one is willing to save-up or put aside to get the item. For some, it might just be a matter of reducing the size of their existing collection a bit. I figure if I could sell-off about eight or so of the locomotives I currently have (and Lord knows it would be a good idea to do so), I could pretty much pay for both the locomotives I want. May just elect to follow that route, in fact, but I probably had better not wait too long. With just 150 of the two-packs being offered, I don't imagine there will be any available for ordering by the end of this month, if not much sooner.

 

The recently released Legacy H-10 steam engines came equipped with smoke, rail sounds, swinging bell, and whistle steam for a MSRP of $749.99.  The H-10 engines were offered at a discount from full retail price by several dealers. 
 
The ONE TIME ONLY (where have I heard that before?) special edition “die cast and brass construction,” commemorative steam engines have a price of $1099.99 each, which is $350 more than the Legacy H-10 steam engines.  However, the special edition steam engines DO NOT include smoke, rail sounds, swinging bell, or whistle steam.  Furthermore, these special edition commemorative steam engines appear to be available only at the full retail price based upon the dealers’ ads I have seen. 
 
I fully understand that the size of these engines is a limiting factor in what features will be included but to me the addition of some brass details while removing many features that are usually included in Legacy engines does not justify the higher MSRP.
 
I will pass on purchasing these engines.  For everyone that has decided to order these engines (and cars) I sincerely hope that you enjoy your purchases.

Greg

Sad day indeed when both sides of whether to purchase or not these or other offerings, be it Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc.. Only the voices of those that will purchase should be heard on these matters and offerings. But not those, nor reasoning's behind not purchasing should remain silent.

Sad indeed, especially when this is a "Forum" open to also opinions be they positive or negative.  Either way, the subject of the post and the product success will depend on purchasing and hopefully all those that made the commitment here will post pictures when they arrive.

Super O Bob posted:

Well, I ignore the usual anti circle L lposters...

The good news is we all get to have an opinion...

The Lionel two pack set will most certainly sell out, with just the 150 being offered...  its fantastic to get both golden spike engines being offered with the latest and most accurate decorations and with two FREE passenger cars!  I personally know of 5 sets selling in the first few minutes, and i know several other friends of mine will no doubt be ordering...  UP fans and collectors...

I think the pricing is just as i expected to pay.  These are ONE TIME offerings.  Highly detailed SCALE engines.  I am very much looking forward to these...

 

I applaud Lionel for their effort with these offerings. Considering the cost of Legacy steamers these days, I don’t see the prices as out-of-line. I’m sure those who order from this series will be most pleased with them. The passenger cars look equally fine and priced pretty reasonably, too.

At the same time, I also want to thank Lionel for making a traditional offering of the two historic locos in their popular postwar  “General” style. These are found on pages 70 and 71 of the Lionel 2019 Vol. 1 catalog. $549 for the pair! They are LionChief models. 

I ordered a set of these for myself yesterday from my local train shop.  

I will also get the pair of the  commemorative 6464 style boxcars offered on the same pages as the Generals. 

With all of their 150th products, Lionel is doing an excellent job of remembering this signal event in American history. Kudos to them!

rthomps posted:

Thanks RT for posting.

I'm a big Lionel fan but not much into steam.  I would like to comment on the professionalism of video presentation.  You can certainly see and hear the historian in Ryan come out.  He spoke for 10 minutes straight from memory.  The presentation was refreshing because it was not full of comedy or silly antics.     

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

Does the BEMC board have legacy cruise control? 

It reads Legacy signals and has cruise control but it will not run at the same speed as most all other Legacy engines. It should run together with the other 4-4-0 in this set though. Shouldn't be a big deal. They didn't have SD70s in the 1860s.

Pete

I wish I could purchase these engines, and I applaud Lionel for bringing them out. Just a bit steep for me though. I’m guessing the naysayers can’t afford them, so they bash them to justify their cause. Thank you Lionel for pushing the envelope and trying new and exciting products!

While I don't particularly have very many scale models and these engines are more than what I'd like spend. These are absolutely beautiful locomotives, I don't get all the negative comments!

Also, if you want this set on a budget, Lionel, MTH and others offer models that may or may not be scale but are also very nice. Give it some time, I'm sure Lionel will have LC+ 2.0 version that will cost much less and look almost as good.

H1000

I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them.

They are historically significant....but they lack too many of what most consumers consider standard features to be very enjoyable to run in 2020 or so, IMHO. 

I suspect that most of these will turn into display pieces.  I also suspect that many people will eventually want to display a more interesting locomotive in time and will eventually stick these back in their box on a shelf, out of sight and mind.

It's a free Country and I hope all that order these enjoy them.  But I won't be one of them. 

It sounds like Lionel is putting together some nice products hear. I would have thought these would have been closer to $1,500 each.

I have only need back to trains for about 4 years and don't trust myself with $1,000+ engines yet. I was planning on going for the LC set and these passenger cars. However, while reading the descriptions on Lionel.com. They have drawbar couplers so they only work with the hybrid engines?

I am hoping maybe they will also offer these with traditional knuckle couplers in the 2019 V2 catalog.  

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

 

 

RT   

rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

Hey Hoss - why don't we let this play out for five years....and lay off the personal attacks in the meantime?

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