Lionel's UP Veranda Turbine All Die Cast Engine - WOW!

Nice engine!!

I found the  manual and it looks like the volume control knob and smoke switches are located as shown below.

I am not big on smoke... its great for the photo shoot " run by" so I will probably try it out... then turn them off and run them only on occasion...

I have one this is my 3rd I had to sell the last 2 to finance my train room, It has always been on my wanted list and I found one and its a BEAST , Do I wish they do it in legacy oh yeah but it is a awesome runner and it goes great with my #80 coal turbine DD40X and Propane Turbine, For that price you did great enjoy and keep running

there was a additional piece of paper that came with the manual that told you how to turn on the smoke units from the tmcc remote so they can work correctly its a tricky series of keys to make them work if I could make a copy I will post it

fl9turbo2 posted:

I have one this is my 3rd I had to sell the last 2 to finance my train room, It has always been on my wanted list and I found one and its a BEAST , Do I wish they do it in legacy oh yeah but it is a awesome runner and it goes great with my #80 coal turbine DD40X and Propane Turbine, For that price you did great enjoy and keep running

You have to show us some pictures! I googled some photos and it looks like I could run some steel side reefers behind it and my JLC or Vision Line Big Boy as well!

Truly a spectacular locomotive on all counts! Are you sure you want to mess with the electronics via an upgrade, fine as ERR products are? A friend who owns over a dozen LARGE/LONG Lionel locomotives considers his UP Veranda among his best and smoothest runners. Perhaps a hold ‘til the TMCC or Odyssey board(s) fail .  .  .  ? 

fl9turbo2 posted:

there was a additional piece of paper that came with the manual that told you how to turn on the smoke units from the tmcc remote so they can work correctly its a tricky series of keys to make them work if I could make a copy I will post it

Yes  - on the manual If found these notes... not sure I will be able to commit them to memory...

OddIsHeRU posted:

Truly a spectacular locomotive on all counts! Are you sure you want to mess with the electronics via an upgrade, fine as ERR products are? A friend who owns over a dozen LARGE/LONG Lionel locomotives considers his UP Veranda among his best and smoothest runners. Perhaps a hold ‘til the TMCC or Odyssey board(s) fail .  .  .  ? 

I totally agree. If its not broke don't fix it... and with the curse I have with killing electronics with one fatal touch... I will wait until the need arises.

Besides I have a set of Lionel Burlington E-5's that will need the board replacement first.

I had one of those. truly a bruiser

Bob C.

I think if you mess with the electronics the smoke units no longer work correctly, some people (including myself) have had problems with the smoke units not  working the way the should sometimes wile the loco is moving the back smoke unit works and not the front.  This was a problem and it had at the time was the first generation odyssey system and you had to practice to set it, That's why I am hoping for a legacy version with the latest systems.    

fl9turbo2 posted:

I think if you mess with the electronics the smoke units no longer work correctly, some people (including myself) have had problems with the smoke units not  working the way the should sometimes wile the loco is moving the back smoke unit works and not the front.  This was a problem and it had at the time was the first generation odyssey system and you had to practice to set it, That's why I am hoping for a legacy version with the latest systems.    

Well I am still reading up on the smoke units but I believe in the manual the front unit is supposed to turn on and the rear unit turns off after a certain speed is reached... Cool feature but lots of smoke... choke, choke...

Thanks for the heads up on the DCDS swap... seems to me the more I work on these the more variants I find.

The UP Vernada is a great model.  Lionel did a great job with it.

I think we'll see it with Legacy soon, just not sure I'll be able to afford it. 

86TA355SR posted:

The UP Vernada is a great model.  Lionel did a great job with it.

I think we'll see it with Legacy soon, just not sure I'll be able to afford it. 

Nope, won't be soon, too complex to assemble, and yes the cost will push 2 bills....

J DADDY you have a beautiful locomotive and tender and it's nice to read that all is fine and that you are happy with it.
Just the tender has a massive size, let alone the two units together!
BEAUTIFUL!!!!
Enjoy,
Ralph

if its just like the tmcc version I would buy it the sound would be better the odyssey would be  better and the smoke may be better but I would bet lionel would forget the smoke system its hard to make it  work reliable, look what happened to the vision line genset it had something like the veranda smoke unit. And that had issues then lionel went to a single smoke unit

Actually I just polished and cleaned the rollers and WOW talk about a real difference.  Now it runs so smoothly. 

I have this, it's a fun model.   The rear smoke unit is the diesel prime mover, that runs at slow speeds.  When you get up to a certain speed, the main stack (the turbine) takes over.  I'm not sure what the talk about setting stall speed is, this engine has Odyssey, so you shouldn't need the stall speed setting.

It should be a pretty reliable runner, it has four pickups and lots of wheels on the outer tracks.

Its a awesome runner for me I have a 2% grade and I run a 25-30 car train and have no issues I would not change a thing, But I still have my fingers crossed for a legacy version

I purchased my Turbine from a Forum member LEAPIN LARRY.  WOW what an engine.  Great runner and sounds.  Love the smoke units too.  Enjoy your new old engine.  It is a Home Run!!!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have this, it's a fun model.   The rear smoke unit is the diesel prime mover, that runs at slow speeds.  When you get up to a certain speed, the main stack (the turbine) takes over.  I'm not sure what the talk about setting stall speed is, this engine has Odyssey, so you shouldn't need the stall speed setting.

It should be a pretty reliable runner, it has four pickups and lots of wheels on the outer tracks.

I set the stall speed to reduce the initial lurch when it starts up.

Hmm...  I don't get a lurch with mine, maybe I got lucky?

same here not sure why its lurching mine is smooth

Some Odyssey I locomotives have the initial Odyssey I lurch upon power-up, but I never noticed that with my Veranda, I'm actually pretty happy with it's overall performance.

Its not an Odyssey lurch... its more of a rapid start. I am able to set the stall and create a slow start.

Sounds like the cruise is switched off or has a problem.  I see nothing like this.

Odd then.. I was able to adjust out of it... nice and smooth now.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sounds like the cruise is switched off or has a problem.  I see nothing like this.

Norm makes notes about it too in his UP Veranda video. I took notes from him a few years back in how to tweak the older TMCC units using the CAB 2. It really makes a difference!

Above:

"Holy smokes, is this the heaviest diesel locomotive that Lionel has ever made?"

Couldn't be. It's not a "diesel". It's a gas turbine. Like Airbus and others use to make airplanes fly.

Not a diesel. It does have a small diesel engine on board to run accessories (the turbine spins at tens of thousands of RPM's) and to move around the yard (the turbine gulps fuel and is efficient only at high, fairly constant, speeds - just like steam turbines.)

I have one; runs well, weak smoke, and it can stop a wee bit suddenly - and I mean a wee bit. It's fine. No lurch.

The auxiliary diesel (see above) background sound is much too loud to be realistic at track speeds.

Yes no lurch . watch in Norm's second video frame 1:03. The adjustment of the stall and momentum setting can be optimized to reduce the "sudden start" as seen here.

My older Allegheny cab no. 1601 had the same issue, but no stall adjustment could help it....  thus I replaced the original DCDS board with an ERR board

I see nothing in Norm's video that looks like a lurch, and his complete description of the video doesn't seem to suggest any issue.  All I saw at 1:03 was the turbine smoke unit kick in.

In December 2007, I filmed this fully diecast beast running under Legacy control. Using the RR Speeds, the TMCC speed steps could be incrementally applied, giving nice and gradual wind-ups in speed. At some fixed step, the Veranda's firmware would kick in the main turbine smoker while shutting the 'donkey motor' smoker off. A very cool and unique feature. I sort of regret selling this engine off, but it went to a good home...

Is there an online instruction manual for the 18149 turbine? Have no idea where to look for it on the Lionel site. I just picked up one at York for a bargain price but there are a couple of issues that I need to try and figure out. Like how to make the tender backup light work and the coupler work on it. Not real fluent in Tmcc. The instruction manual wasn't in the box when I bought it. Any help would be appreciated.

Looking good John!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see nothing in Norm's video that looks like a lurch, and his complete description of the video doesn't seem to suggest any issue.  All I saw at 1:03 was the turbine smoke unit kick in.

In December 2007, I filmed this fully diecast beast running under Legacy control. Using the RR Speeds, the TMCC speed steps could be incrementally applied, giving nice and gradual wind-ups in speed. At some fixed step, the Veranda's firmware would kick in the main turbine smoker while shutting the 'donkey motor' smoker off. A very cool and unique feature. I sort of regret selling this engine off, but it went to a good home...

Never mind John...

MichRR714 posted:

Looking good John!

Thanks Charlie.  See you guys at Cheryl's. 

Carl C posted:

Is there an online instruction manual for the 18149 turbine?

Links to all the manuals are on this page.

http://www.lionel.com/products...-turbine-73-6-18149/

J Daddy posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see nothing in Norm's video that looks like a lurch, and his complete description of the video doesn't seem to suggest any issue.  All I saw at 1:03 was the turbine smoke unit kick in.

In December 2007, I filmed this fully diecast beast running under Legacy control. Using the RR Speeds, the TMCC speed steps could be incrementally applied, giving nice and gradual wind-ups in speed. At some fixed step, the Veranda's firmware would kick in the main turbine smoker while shutting the 'donkey motor' smoker off. A very cool and unique feature. I sort of regret selling this engine off, but it went to a good home...

Never mind John...

Don't go away mad, I'm really trying to understand the issue.  Am I missing something?

John,

Told you it was a "BEAST"! I bought mine a few years ago from Fl9turbo2 here on ogr and extremely happy that I got one. They initially sold for $1100 street price and now you can get one for half that price. I'd rather buy one of these than a Legacy diesel. I say this is the ultimate in diesel/turbine engines to have!

Really thinking of getting a 2nd one to double head and almost bought another one at the last York. Saw a few at around $600.

GR John, Thank you for posting the link to the instruction manual pages. Really appreciate your help.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

J Daddy posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see nothing in Norm's video that looks like a lurch, and his complete description of the video doesn't seem to suggest any issue.  All I saw at 1:03 was the turbine smoke unit kick in.

In December 2007, I filmed this fully diecast beast running under Legacy control. Using the RR Speeds, the TMCC speed steps could be incrementally applied, giving nice and gradual wind-ups in speed. At some fixed step, the Veranda's firmware would kick in the main turbine smoker while shutting the 'donkey motor' smoker off. A very cool and unique feature. I sort of regret selling this engine off, but it went to a good home...

Never mind John...

Don't go away mad, I'm really trying to understand the issue.  Am I missing something?

LOL.  Not mad. I guess you have to see it on video.  I can manipulate the start on this thing from a crawl. Where as before it just jumped into motion. 

Ted Bertiger posted:

John,

Told you it was a "BEAST"! I bought mine a few years ago from Fl9turbo2 here on ogr and extremely happy that I got one. They initially sold for $1100 street price and now you can get one for half that price. I'd rather buy one of these than a Legacy diesel. I say this is the ultimate in diesel/turbine engines to have!

Really thinking of getting a 2nd one to double head and almost bought another one at the last York. Saw a few at around $600.

Ted - If you got two of these things and MU ed them together that would be crazy. I bet they could pull over 100 cars. 

JDaddy,      I agree with all, there is something, everything, about this engine that makes it the best.  I have never had any problems with mine, other than I have not been running much of late, and it is sitting in a display case.  However, when I started working on my layout years ago (before all the storms hit us) I ran it along with other U.P. motive power, and pulled some very long consists around my incomplete 24 x 28 space.  It is a beast, and if anyone should ever figure a way to keep PS1 sounds and have TMCC control, would like to double head with my MTH version.

Jesse     TCA

I still regret parting with this engine but it did go to a nice home. The first speed step was always a bit faster than a typical Odyssey diesel of that mid 2000s era. It most certainly didn't have Odyssey lurch, which was fixable issue of the time. This was characterized by a full open loop launch upon application of the first speed step after initial power up, or more annoyingly, a power cycle due to power loss, etc.

Phil Gresho had one of these with an Odyssey on/off switch that was installed backwards from what I remember. You may want to verify that you are actually in cruise mode (hold onto a coupler while applying the first speed step and see if pulls harder or stalls).

This may be one of the first diesels Lionel made with back-drivable gearing, you can actually push this by hand and roll the drivers.

The back driveable gears was a feature that surprised me when I first fired it up, I thought that didn't come until Legacy.  I bought mine in the forum recently, and I'm glad I got it, it is a unique piece.

I agree with Norm about checking the switch.  I start out smoothly at the first speed step when running in TMCC mode with the CAB2.  It doesn't start up quite as slow as my Legacy stuff, but there is no lurch anywhere in the speed spectrum with mine.

Hey, Norm. Yes I was surprised too on the back drivable motors. Adjusting the momentum on the CAB 2 helps  with a smoother start up.

I want to say that the CCII ESE Hudson was the only other engine from that era with back-drivable drivers.

J DADDY,
'FANTASTIC!'
Ralph

As I get her broken in on the layout I am going to focus on changing out the front pilot. It would look good with a more detailed pilot and scale coupler. The old pilot I could unfasten and keep the original in the box.

J Daddy posted:

As I get her broken in on the layout I am going to focus on changing out the front pilot. It would look good with a more detailed pilot and scale coupler. The old pilot I could unfasten and keep the original in the box.

 

please let us me know how you did that, I would love to do the same

texastrain posted:

JDaddy,      I agree with all, there is something, everything, about this engine that makes it the best.  I have never had any problems with mine, other than I have not been running much of late, and it is sitting in a display case.  However, when I started working on my layout years ago (before all the storms hit us) I ran it along with other U.P. motive power, and pulled some very long consists around my incomplete 24 x 28 space. It is a beast, and if anyone should ever figure a way to keep PS1 sounds and have TMCC control, would like to double head with my MTH version.

Jesse     TCA

There was Digital Dynamics, a TMCC card which kept the PS1 sounds. There is a HUGE, HUGE market for these today. Too bad it went the way of the Legacy upgrade kit...

I have a PS-1 one as well as my lionel one it sits on a siding waiting on the upgrade to tmcc that will be done at some time in the future and then I will be able to run them together 

Mine ran horribly when I first got it, it was very jerky and intermittent. Took me a while to figure out the motor flywheel was hitting the handrail/antenna on the roof when it went over an uneven joint. I moved that motor to the other try on now it works awesome

There's a currently running thread about a potential new PS/1 to TMCC upgrade, though the lack of traffic in the thread recently may signal that the project died at birth.

Ted Bertiger posted:

... They initially sold for $1100 street price and now you can get one for half that price. I'd rather buy one of these than a Legacy diesel. I say this is the ultimate in diesel/turbine engines to have!

...

Absolutely agree.  

This hobby is completely unpredictable at times.    We have folks tripping over themselves to buy die-cast ES44 Legacy diesels at nearly twice their original MSRP, and then there's this wonderful beast of a die-cast diesel going for nearly half of what it once did.    Go figure!

Under $600 for this gem is an absolute steal.  If I still had mine, I'd keep it rather than let it go for so little today.  It is really a unique piece.  I suppose folks are anticipating a Legacy version, which may account for the current price-drop.  But even that doesn't quite make sense -- since we know Lionel would make folks pay through the nose and then some for a die-cast Legacy version. 

As it was... The TMCC locomotive took forever to get manufactured.  Originally it was planned to have an Odyssey MOTOR, but then Lionel scrapped that idea and went with just the Odyssey SYSTEM.  Following that whole marketing debacle, there were then reportedly more delays due to issues with the die-cast shell.  So lots of folklore behind the Lionel Veranda.

David

Easy David... remember its not a diesel..

J Daddy posted:

Easy David... remember its not a diesel..

Balderdash, it's at least half a diesel.

I bet you could burn diesel in a real one

I'd really like to see someone lower one of these beasts, put Kadees on it, and weather it like the above photos.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I'd really like to see someone lower one of these beasts, put Kadees on it, and weather it like the above photos.

that would be awesome

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I'd really like to see someone lower one of these beasts, put Kadees on it, and weather it like the above photos.

Sounds like a challenge - would be nice if lowering it was as easy as the F3's. I have some brass sheet in the scrap box that I may be able to tackle that pilot first...

Norm,

I had dinner tonight with our mutual buddy from Lionel who got this Veranda project come to life and got it produced while he was at the helm of the regime. He sends his regards to you. Told him this is the beast of all beasts of motive power ever produced by them.

BobbyD, yes, I have one DD board installed in another engine, and wish I had gotten more, but who knew they were to go under?

John, yes, I have been following that thread and also wonder what became of the optimistic chatter that was being read on there.  The market is "out there" no doubt.........

I have upgraded other pieces of U.P. motive power I have to TMCC/RS with ERR.  A thought..... why have ERR, or other upgrade available, or have they, considered a version of "RS" making use of the QSI turbine sounds?   Would this really be so difficult to do, to the point it would not be practical financially?   Even to re-format the same turbine sounds into the RS version and take it from there?  I have several other turbines I wish to upgrade ( my opinion, mind you) to TMCC, but wish to fully retain the unique turbine sounds.  Along with the sounds that are in the MTH DD40AX........

Just wondering... and hoping..... and wishing......  LOL!!!!

Jesse    TCA

texastrain posted:

A thought..... why have ERR, or other upgrade available, or have they, considered a version of "RS" making use of the QSI turbine sounds?   Would this really be so difficult to do, to the point it would not be practical financially?   Even to re-format the same turbine sounds into the RS version and take it from there?  I have several other turbines I wish to upgrade ( my opinion, mind you) to TMCC, but wish to fully retain the unique turbine sounds.  Along with the sounds that are in the MTH DD40AX........

Just wondering... and hoping..... and wishing......  LOL!!!!

Don't hold your breath.  I'm fairly certain that the lack of unique sounds for ERR upgrades is as much or more a marketing decision as it is a technical consideration.  Lionel doesn't want to impact the sales of their new products with lower profit upgrade packages.

Ted, that's nice to hear! Send him my regards. This engine was from my favorite era of Lionel. Nice seeing you at York by the way!

J Daddy posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sounds like the cruise is switched off or has a problem.  I see nothing like this.

Norm makes notes about it too in his UP Veranda video. I took notes from him a few years back in how to tweak the older TMCC units using the CAB 2. It really makes a difference!

 

I wish I could get mine to smoke like that..    Both smoke units especially the front one has never put out more then a few wisps of smoke on its best day.  The smokeless dog has been sitting on a shelf now for at least the past 5 years.   

Joe 

I have been running this monster all week now. I think I heard a faint crack as passed over these MTH bridges!

John,

You really have to make sure the elevated bridges or whatever is firmly supported! Lol!

JC642 posted:

I wish I could get mine to smoke like that..    Both smoke units especially the front one has never put out more then a few wisps of smoke on its best day.  The smokeless dog has been sitting on a shelf now for at least the past 5 years.   

Joe 

It should be pretty easy to get it smoking properly, most likely a simple maintenance on the smoke unit is all that's required.

Norm,

He always tell us about the night you guys went to his home in Michigan and ran trains on his back porch and about Dan walking through the screened porch door. He shakes his head about the current pricing.

I always thank him for making me broke back in his Lionel days! He made great stuff back then at affordable prices.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

JC642 posted:

I wish I could get mine to smoke like that..    Both smoke units especially the front one has never put out more then a few wisps of smoke on its best day.  The smokeless dog has been sitting on a shelf now for at least the past 5 years.   

Joe 

It should be pretty easy to get it smoking properly, most likely a simple maintenance on the smoke unit is all that's required.

I replaced the batting and removed the covers over the heating elements and it smoked me out of the room  

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I'd really like to see someone lower one of these beasts, put Kadees on it, and weather it like the above photos.

It won't be me. 

Bob

Bob Bubeck posted:

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I'd really like to see someone lower one of these beasts, put Kadees on it, and weather it like the above photos.

It won't be me. 

Bob

me either with my luck I would mess it up and I would be so upset

Hi Guys,

Great topic with loads of useful information.

I have a question and I know it hijacks this thread but does anyone have information on that UP 3 unit turbine No.80 that is pictured in one of the above photos?  Lionel or MTH?  Has anyone posted photos/videos of that model?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Steam Guy posted:

Hi Guys,

 

Great topic with loads of useful information.

I have a question and I know it hijacks this thread but does anyone have information on that UP 3 unit turbine No.80 that is pictured in one of the above photos?  Lionel or MTH?  Has anyone posted photos/videos of that model?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

lionel has only done the veranda MTH has done the the veranda the 3piece big blow turbine and the #80 coal turbine and the propane turbine, one can only hope lionel will do another turbine as for videos not sure if there any other ones

I hope this adds something pertinent to the conversation:

In both photos, the UP73 (on the left) is by Lionel; the 61 (on the right) is by MTH...

FrankM.

Moonson posted:

I hope this adds something pertinent to the conversation:

In both photos, the UP73 (on the left) is by Lionel; the 61 (on the right) is by MTH...

FrankM.

beautiful layout they look good

Moonson, you say your MTH Veranda is number 61?  Mine is numbered 75.... and is PS1.  Is yours a later version, hopefully PS2 or PS3, and what year production?  Mine runs very good, just not as detailed as the Lionel, and not die cast.  I do like running them at the same time, just on different tracks, the Lionel in TMCC and the MTH conventional with the Cab1.  Yes, a very fine looking layout you have, sir.  I will be glad when I can show pics of my layout after I have gotten back to it and with an input of the needed hours.

Jesse     TCA

Steam Guy Steve,      the MTH Union Pacific #80 Coal Turbine is an older PS1 model from the early, early 2000.  The cat number is 20-2214LS, do not know whether MTH or anyone else has produced this model since then.  I did my best to acquire all the various turbines at the time, wishing now I had kept my Big Blow Turbine, but sold to a club member and used the funds to purchase one of the JLC Challengers, so I feel it was well justified, and am quite pleased.

Hope you are able to find one at a very good price.  I do like mine very well, as I do all my turbines... well, all my U.P. motive power!

John and GGG...   How difficult would it be to acquire a Lionel RS for the DD40AX, as Lionel did release one, themselves?  I do not believe ERR has a sound card for the DD40AX sounds, do they, that could go with a TMCC upgrade?  Perhaps I can get this one done, myself, and see about what comes from the idea of TMCC and retaining PS1/QSI sounds.

Jesse     TCA

Did Lionel ever make a DDA40X?

I decided to give mine some time out on the rails

That looks great I love that engine nice layout also. 

John, I don't get to look through all the Lionel catalogs, but did they not make a DD35 or something similar a couple years ago?  I recall seeing them advertised somewhere in both powered and dummy units, and if so, wouldn't the sound used be that of the same type engine arrangement for motive power?   Just thinking.... I know, a dangerous path to go down........ LOL!!

Jesse   TCA

Hi Guys,

Thanks to all for providing me with information on the UP No. 80 coal turbine.  Early, early 2000...my; how time flies!

Steve

texastrain posted:

Steam Guy Steve,      the MTH Union Pacific #80 Coal Turbine is an older PS1 model from the early, early 2000.  The cat number is 20-2214LS, do not know whether MTH or anyone else has produced this model since then. 

John and GGG...   How difficult would it be to acquire a Lionel RS for the DD40AX, as Lionel did release one, themselves?  I do not believe ERR has a sound card for the DD40AX sounds, do they, that could go with a TMCC upgrade?  Perhaps I can get this one done, myself, and see about what comes from the idea of TMCC and retaining PS1/QSI sounds.

Jesse     TCA

 

1.  MTH released a PS2 version of #80 coal turbine model a few years back. Sound and control are of course a big improvement on the PS1 version. I have run both and both smoke like chimneys.

2.  Lionel has not made a DDA40X whereas MTH has made them in PS1 and PS2 (not sure about PS3) and some of the PS1s were in non-UP liveries. The DD35s made by Lionel 2 or 3 years ago are not as impressive as the MTH DDA40X, IMO, either for detailing or operating features. I've always thought Lionel missed a trick by not issuing a DDA40X but then MTH has probably grabbed that piece of the market.

3.  There are DCC sound sets for the DDA40X but as far as I know only MTH has made a 3Rail/AC O scale version.

Hancock, thanks for the information and updates.   I have been out of the "loop" for a few years with working out of town and occupied with construction management for far too long, have a lot of catching up to do.  Now that I retired, when I can, doing my darnest to fill in the voids and see what I can do to upgrade and have all my motive power under one control system..... preferably TMCC.  Good enough for me and what I have invested into.  Again, thanks you for the input.

Jesse     TCA