Lionel vision line!!!!

Yes, you choose wisely!  These Vision Line items have become very desirable and if you are looking to raise funds, these should really help.

 

Good luck,

Don

Not being Lionel Vision Line knowledgeable. Why are these engines and cars so collectible and expensive?

low production numbers and none available.

 

want to sell them? 

 

they would not last a day in the for sale section of this forum.

Yes, those particular Vision engines and the Vision tank cars generally get premium prices. I've no idea how many units of each Lionel produced but it can't be much; if they re-issued them they would probably sell out and prices in the aftermarket would plummet but there's no indication of another production run.

 

Be aware however that the current prices on *bay are not necessarily representative of what people get. I got the CP Hybrid for a little above original list price after it was originally listed for something like $1300.

None of these products "should" be fetching the stratospheric prices they're fetching... and this time, we don't even have shady sellers to blame.  The "blame game" here lies squarely with toy train enthusiasts who literally trip over themselves bidding up prices when they see something they "must have".  It's one of the less savory sides of this hobby, IMHO.  And frankly, I just don't know why the importers don't order additional production runs to satisfy the demand.     That would be "win-win" for all involved, but it does seem that they're still challenged to get rolling stock delivered with any kind of electronic wizardry involved.  Heck, they can't even get the #990 Legacy kits delivered... and that's their bread-and-butter control system nowadays.

 

$800 for the freight-sounds tankers is absolutely ridiculous.  I picked up a set from Hennings Trains a year or two ago for less than MSRP.    Lionel has already catalog'd several more sets of non-freight-sounds Ethanol tankers, and it simply defies logic that they didn't take the opportunity to re-run one of the sets with freight-sounds.  I gotta believe they know all too well the production run would be a sell-out, but they're having enough trouble just delivering "regular" scale rolling stock these days -- although we're beginning to see hopes of the log-jam breaking with a recent delivery of Milwaukee Road passenger cars and Norfolk Southern heritage cabooses.

 

I would never pay the stratospheric prices we're seeing some folks pay for these items -- mostly because this hobby is littered with examples of "hot items" that once fetched premium prices and now can't be given away.  Once you've lived through those times, you never quite look at the collecting game the same way again.

 

But hey... as someone said, if you're looking to raise some funds, you're certainly not gonna loose money by placing these items up for sale... that's for sure.  And I'd go so far as to say... if you price these items "fairly", they won't even last 20 minutes here on the OGR for-sale forum. 

 

David

I can understand the GE HYBRID--UP GENSET--CP HYBRID going up in Value, as others are looking for the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA UP ES44---BNSF ES44 and the KCS ES44 in Die Cast...Also All of the Vision Line Engines were made to the Highest Standards and introduced new and really nice features like Swinging Bells, Smoke from different areas of our engines, and yes the Amazing Gensets that smoked from the three stacks separately... Wow, Lionel really Set a New Standard in Technology. It appears that the new VisionLine Big Boy will be equally Desirable. Now, enjoy the fun of collecting those fun to run trains.

I can't believe how much I have lost in knowledge by being away for this time period. I feel clueless.  I just found a kcs es 44.  Was that considered vision to?  I agree that the features on the ge/cp hybrid is amazing along with the detail.  I guess this all comes down to supply and demand and there must be a big swing to the demand.  I am sure glad these we're tucked away and not found by the appraiser.   Finally a win

The kc one is around 700 to 800 normally ..There is other issues with them .A lot either complained about the price or broke hand rails .. lionel service department didnt care for them they where hard to repair and pushed for lionel to make the new ones in plastic .Who knows if they will ever make them in diecast again. I had all of them at one time ..unfortunately I only own the up and cp rail now. ..

It is simply the laws of supply and demand.  These were made in low numbers and as more people have discovered how really cool they are, they want one.  There is nothing un-"savory" about this, it happens in every arena.  Just try to buy the most recent high powered Corvette.

 

Also, if Lionel should reissue these limited production items, not only would the existing supply go down in price but Lionel would find it harder to sell any future releases as "Limited Quantities" items.  Just ask older stamp collectors what happened to the stamp collecting hobby when the Post Office reissued what had been rare stamps.  That hobby has never recovered.  As a matter of fact, one cannot even sell collections of new stamps for face value although they are still usable.

 

Lionel has created a market for their high end products by offering new and unusual features that have never been commercially available before.  Bravo for them as some of that research and development makes it way into more affordable products targeted to masses.

 

Good luck with your decision weather to keep or sell.  You must have liked them originally to have purchased these high end products.

 

Happy railroading,

Don

Surprised no one mentioned the fact that Lionel is making the new ES44AC's Body out of plastic to save on the cost. Mikes Train House came out with a ES44AC GE Hybrid but no ware near the detail of the Lionel Vision Line one. But is still a great deal for the cost because it only cost $400 and came with the Lab car. As long as Lionel Does not reissue them they will continue to go up in value.

Simple explanation, the law of supply and demand is at work here. Low supply and high demand will always push prices up. Be thankful if you are actually in the selling mode, you chose wisely.

Nothing wrong with making money once in a while.

 

>>And frankly, I just don't know why the importers don't order additional production runs to satisfy the demand.     That would be "win-win" for all involved,<<<

 

I'm pretty sure that's what happened in 1991 when Lionel didn't make enough B units for the Santa Fe F-3's and had to essentially make another in 1993 to please consumers.

 

The same went with the Commodore Vanderbilts in 1996 thru 1999.

 

So, yeah, neither of these plans were stress free.

The mistake most individuals (myself included) make when they discover an item (or asset) they own has appreciated wildly is that they don't sell & then stash the proceeds (with exception of the home they are living in).

As what's stated above, high today and low tomorrow. If you want the cash, sell now B4 york while you have some time.

>>>I'm pretty sure that's what happened in 1991 when Lionel didn't make enough B units for the Santa Fe F-3's and had to essentially make another in 1993 to please consumers..<<

 

Exactly right.  The worst part of a needless reissue is in the cold hard fact that once the reisued tem of interest is announced, valuation quickly drops and the few who really wanted the item buy it in the secondary market at a below normal depreciation price. The once "hot" reissued item reaches the market overproduced and gets blown out causing even more depreciation and even more customer dissatisfaction. The history of Lionel in the modern era....

Joe

Selling these is like selling stocks, strike while the prices are high, because it likely won't last.

 

The VL ES44's are really nice, and if I had them, they would be on the auction block right now.

 

The real question I have is what is the support for these models when things break?  That is why I tend away from limited edition items unless I plan to display only, which when it comes to trains, won't happen with me.  I buy my toys to run them.

Supply and demand simple as that.

Lionel should only reissue an item if any significant upgrades are made or if its a ready to run set.  In the long run lionel will gain more wealth, when people see it as a investment. I thing the die cast es44ac BSA will even pass the Hybrid ones because it marked the 100th aniversery, I rarely see that one on eBay.

An ES44AC UP Boy Scouts went for north of 1700 on eBay about 2 weeks ago. 

 

Id do love to get my hands on one, but for 1700, I would rather have an articulated steamer. 

It's not just train folks looking for it: Boy Scout collectors want it also.

 

As an Eagle Scout, I wanted it when it was new.  Just couldn't bring myself to pay that much.  Had I known.....

Die cast ES44 BNSF on the bay right now for 1200. Don't believe this was VL though. 

For those who spend that much money on imported "Vision Line" toys; there must be:

1. People with very deep pockets out there.

2. Plenty of folks with too much time on their hands.

Folks if you buy this stuff, have my blessings.

 

I suppose those thinking about buying one should first ask themselves, would they be financially further ahead with a situation where they pay more then MSRP today in the secondary market with a decent chance it will maintain long term value?   

Or, have Lionel reissue it soon and depreciate both issues at an excessive rate?  Usually 50% or more of its original MSRP witin the first year? 

Joe

If anyone is in this hobby as an "investment" they are setting themselves up for severe disappointment.

 

Everyone makes their own decisions for their own reasons, we're all playing with toys so practicality really doesn't measure in here.  I don't see the value for my dollar with the vision line equipment, but find it very nice.  What others choose to see and how they evaluate it is up to them, and more power to all those who do buy the VL locos.  They certainly do end up with very fine model RR products.

Buy it now or pay close to retail in the secondary market.  Used with no warranty.  Not to mention difficulty in finding an item.  The VL Big Boy will be my first 'new' purchase of the Vision Line.  I don't want to "roll the dice" on trying to find a used one later (and possibly paying more than retail-don't make sense).

 

I am not saying what is right or wrong, or trying to change anyone's opinion.  Just what I've witnessed with the Vision Line items. 

 

I've never bought VL products (or any toy train) as investments.  I like the features and the limited numbers.  But, I have to really think about spending the money on VL products.  I know I am getting 'raped' on buying it, but I want it and enjoy it.

 

VL items do seem to hold 'value' better than other trains.  People want them.  I've watched VL Challengers sell for $15-1700 with 25+ bids.  Then again, saw one sell for $1500 with one bid. 

 

Just my opinion and we all know what those are worth....

 

 

 

 

Wow,it seems like there are a lot of opinions on What Lionel should consider reproducing, on what we should sell our trains for, and if its too much money, or ifs its a waste of money, or WHATEVER. Being an older Lionel Enthusiast, I would rather have Quality than Quantity. I got back into the Hobby when they Produced Century Club 1 and then Century Club 2, and bought it all, and to find---Their Quality Kept going HIGHER and HIGHER.  All of the Die Cast Engines, Diesels, Steamers, and especially the Vision Line Engines have great pulling power, run like never before, and are State of the Art made products. No, they are not and investment to make money

on, Nor was the PreWar Blue Comet of Years Ago, but its a nice benefit if the Product goes up a little. This is a Hobby where we men (Ladies to) can get together at our

friends houses and run trains and have a truly Merry Ole Time. If one can have a nice Engine, then thats great . I go over to friends houses and Wish that I could have some of what they have. But, all in all, I am happy that the Lord has been good to me. I am not envious, just Truly Grateful to have a company like Lionel, that keeps trying to Push the Goal Post a little farther, a little better, and out of all the Progress that they make, WE, the Train Enthusiast, get a product thats fun to RUN.

 

>>>If anyone is in this hobby as an "investment" they are setting themselves up for severe disappointment.<<

 

I think these days few if any buy trains as an investment.  Most folks, me included choose their trains simply because they like them, can afford them, and want them.  Given the repetitive nature of the hobby, most trains depreciate but some become popular and hold or increase in value.  

 

Given the extreme expense involved to play this sport, I think most would prefer Lionel not play to the temptation of market forces by maintaining product value whenever possible.

In the end everyone wins. 

Joe   

 

I think that these high dollar items produced by Lionel are simply amazing though.  When I hold one of my Hybrid diesels or even the die cast KCS it simply puts a huge smile on my face.  Watching them run, hearing them, and seeing the simplistic beauty in them is what it is all about for me.  There is a huge difference between these and my other plastic diesels I have from Lionel.  Don't get me wrong they are awesome and the legacy is fantastic, but it is not the same as the die cast ones.  

 

The other part that people are forgetting to mention is everyone has different budgets.  To some spending $2000 on a "toy" is absurd, to others it is an escape and there is no price you can put on that.  I certainly don't buy my hobby stuff thinking this will pay for my children's college, to me these trains were purchased to make me happy and to provide some memories with my two small boys.  I have been very lucky in being able to purchase all the Vision items I have when I did. At this point I don't think I would go out and spend the money on all of them in the aftermarket at the current prices.  I do know that if I never saw one in the wild I would be ok not having one, but if I was able to see the Ge or Cp hybrid in person and hold it, it would turn into my holy grail.  I would for sure be Gollum and be calling it my precious and figure out where I could get one at any cost

Forgive my ignorance but why are the Lionel Vision Line Locomotives demanding such a high price? Is it the low #'s of engines Lionel is producing or is it the electronics that are embedded in this engines? What gives?

If its low production #'s of new locomotives why don't new Sunset 3rd Rail "Brass" Models command higher prices on the secondary market?

I don't know what to say about your comments, but I'll try.

 

I do not have deep pockets.

 

I plan on ordering an new big-boy.

 

I do not have too much time on my hands.

 

I worked almost 40 years raised 4 children paid off house have savings.

 

I went without while raising my children and now it is time for me to play.

 

Spending 2500 for a toy is no different in my mind then if I purchased an engine or some other items for a custom car.

 

but this is just my opinion!

Nice i agree now back to the price.. hmmm i have 3 vision line engines hudson challenger and cp rail.. I never came close to paying retail for any of them.. You have to shop ..

Having watched many "desirable" items come and go over the past few decades, toy train enthusiasts largely get caught up in the "hype" behind owning something that APPEARS to be desirable at that point in time.  Some call it simple supply-and-demand, but that's just a small component of the phenomenon whereby these things are billed as "hot", "desirable", "rare", "limited edition" or whatever adjective you want to apply at the moment... the key phrase being "at the moment". 

 

Check back in 5-10 years when the technology treadmill turns a few more notches, and you won't be able to give these things away -- much less sell them at the premium they might be going for today.

 

David

Tulips, Hummel Plates, PW F3s, 95% dot.com stocks, iPhones, Beanie Babies, twitter this...

A great model railroader once told me "the only over priced locomotive is the one you don't use"

 

Ebay is a marketplace that is unique onto itself in terms of ease of locating an item, impulse buying, availability, and I suspect it is not much of an arbiter in terms of what other venues offer at lower prices such as train shows and, at times, direct ordering from volume sellers. If you have the money, its instant gratification personified and if you don't, its not so great. Theres no general rule for anything in model trains or objectivity for applying value whether it is intangible or counted in decimal points. As these comments attest, opinion is simply a free for all.

Vision line products have registration numbers on the bottom of each of them they started doing this in 2009 when the CC2S was introduced. Regular Lionel engines do not have any number. Vision line is setting itself apart from Lionel just like Ford mustangs have V6 (ready to run sets), GT ( regular Lionel products), cobra and higher models ( vision line products). I think they will hold and increase their value  as long as a reissue does not occur. Plus I can't think of any additional feature you can ad to these master peaces.  Also supply and demand play a huge factor, when two or more people get into bid war on eBay.

Lionel Vision line products are not coming out with new products every year, let alone a reissue of an item. They might come out with a regular Lionel one in the near future, but I doubt they will reissue a vision line one since they have not run out of other engines to make into vision line. For example a vision line Blue Goose, Yellow Belly Hudson, ...GG1. Lionel already came out with plastic body ES44AC's but they are different road names and now where near the detail of the vision Line ones. For example the sound of the vision line es44ac's have no sound distortion caused by a plastic body, it just sounds amazing.