Lionel Y6B comparison VL BB

It remains to be seen about more features than the VL BB, or as many speakers in the engines as the VL Challenger, but, it does have Lighted Marker Lights on the Tender.

it will be a Nice Locomotive. The VL BB really spoiled us with the extra features, wheel slip, Dual Smokestacks, Blow Down, Depleting Coal, and Opening Front Boiler Plate.

Wow.

Only visionline engines have had 3 speakers .

I know little about steam, but the BB was Vision Line and I don't think the Y6B is? Isn't it Legacy only and not Vision Line? If so, that's one big difference. Wasn't Vision Line  supposed to be top of the line, pull out all the stops, and supposed to have things not available on any other Legacy (or otherwise) engines?

Yes, the Y6B is not Vision Line but neither is the AC12. The Y6B should not carry Vision Line features like road number specific crew talk, etc. This only strengthens the argument that the feature/price point is NOT there on the Y6B. But Lionel does add a lot of really cool features onto the premium line legacy engines. The reemergence of the smoking whistle is one of them. There is a lot of speculation on how good the Y6B is going to be. How realistic is that speculation? Specially when I see a lot of comparisons to the VL BBs. 

They're apple and oranges.  Buy it if you like it, don't worry about comparing it to the VL BB.  

Everyone will have an opinion on why and the rumors of the Y6, enjoy what you like and let the rest fall where it does.

Well, I wouldn't say apples and oranges;  red apples and green apples perhaps   Both are/will be large, scale, feature laden locomotives with command and sound.   Whether the BB is worth the extra $500 or not depends on the individual.  I don't like the Y6B prototype at all, so for me, it would have been BB or bust if I had to make a choice, but I didn't buy or pre-order either because I really don't have a place for a BB on my layout as it stands.  

Lionel will at some point make and engine that trumps the Big Boy - that much is certain.  If you don't believe that, you're incredibly naive   Time marches on, and unless the expensive train market evaporates, it will happen.  But for now, the Vision Line BB is the "cat's butt" and probably will be for a year or so....

Enjoy your place on top of the mountain while it lasts !!!  

All I can say is apples and oranges also. The Y6B is almost $600 less than the VL BB so it should have fewer features. If we don't feel our feature/price point has been met then we don't buy the product. That's how I do it anyway.

I made the decision early on when re-entering the hobby a few years ago that all steamers were above my price comfort zone for one engine. I have diesels only and am perfectly happy with them. No Vision Line diesels. I'm very fortunate and happy to have what I have been able to purchase. If a diesel's feature/price point is not in my comfort range that one doesn't make it to the layout. 

The reason you can't find any info on the upcoming Y6b is because those threads that I started were deleted.    I spoke candidly of price/performance between the Y6b and the VL BB months ago after the Y6b was announced, but it was viewed (incorrectly I might add) by some folks here as being "too negative" toward the BB.  Or more specifically, toward the "enjoyment of the hobby".    Give me a break!  But that's what I was told by those in charge.  And so it goes.

But since you asked, we'll try this one more time... and hopefully this time the moderator can refrain from hitting the delete key.   We are, after all, talking about trains here.

So yes... at the 20,000-foot level, there is essentially a $600 street price difference between the two locomotives.  Beyond what is cataloged to date (which is always subject to change), we don't know exactly which features the Y6b will have until it's delivered.

Having said that, I don't doubt that the Y6b will have fewer features than the BB.  The real question is "Are the extra features on the BB worth the additional $600?".  And that, of course is largely subjective.  Ask 10 people and you might get 10 different viewpoints.   Not so much something to argue, but rather something to analyze from a price/performance "value" perspective.  And value has different meanings to different people.  Heck, it might even have different meanings over time to the same people! 

Extra features on the BB will likely include:  depleting coal load, blowdown steam effects, dual smoke stacks (with variable output options), 3 speakers (two in tender and one in the loco), and wheel-slip railsounds effects. Whether the Y6b is delivered with the latter two features is yet to be seen.  The wheel-slip railsounds feature was not listed in the BB's catalog description, but brought out as an unannounced feature.  So perhaps the Y6b will have it too.  Perhaps not.  We just don't know yet.  The BB also carries an extended warranty since it's a Vision Line product.  And there's no free lunch for that.  We're paying for it, folks.  

All in all, I don't think all those features add up to $600 worth of "value".  But that's my view, FWIW.  The depleting coal load is cool, but not something I'd use as a decision-making feature one way or another.  And it's just something I don't want to pay more for, if you know what I mean. The blowdown effects are also cool, but they can be heavily dependent on the surrounding environment (i.e., background colors, etc...) as to whether you'll always be able to "see" the effect(s).  The whistle sound is a winner... hands down. But I actually prefer the Y6b's hooter sound vs. the BB's steamboat sound.  There's certainly a noticeable added presence with the extra speaker in the main locomotive coupled with two in the tender, but I'm just as happy with the hooter sound that's been delivered in dual-Fatboy-equipped Y6b steamers thus far.

To me $600 is still a lotta buckeroos.  And if I were contemplating double-heading two Y6b's, that $600 is almost halfway toward the second Y6b.  So I passed on the BB, and after seeing it several times in person have no regrets.  Don't get me wrong... the extra features are nice.  It's just that I think they're all features that have the potential of losing their pizzaz over time.  Only each of us can answer that for ourselves though.

So when I looked at the BB street-price of $2K, I viewed the price was something Lionel and dealers set where they did "because they could".  Just like supermarkets sell a bottle of spring water for $1.29, because we buy it in a grab-and-go fashion and don't balk at spending $1.29 for a drink.  Yet we can buy a 35-pack of the same sized water bottles for $3.19 -- or just 9 cents per bottle!    The individual bottle is a TERRIBLE price/performer -- regardless of the fact we don't mind spending a buck for most drinks on the go. 

And that was my conclusion about the Vision Line BB as well.  Lionel is hoping they get us in the mindset that $2K ain't that big of a deal for a Vision Line steamer with a few new features.  (And candidly speaking, that's what good marketeers are supposed to do.)  Bottom line...  Wonderful product...  but let's be honest, it's a terrible price/performer. 

As for the BB's $2,700 MSRP?  That only makes the price/performance even worse, and who knows what Lionel was smoking when they pulled that number out of the clouds -- aside from the fact it's designed to get our minds trained on artificially inflated numbers, so the dealer street prices "don't seem as bad".  But dealers still have remaining BB stock they're trying to move at $2k.  So I don't see BB's fetching $2,700 anytime soon.  Nor do I view the $2k street-price as any kind of real $700 "savings" off the MSRP.    Same will hold true for the Y6b... just with slightly shifted price-points.

Others will have different views for sure.  Count on it!

David

Wasn't the previous Y6b part of the super detailed JLC series of engines? Would expect it to retain that advantage over the others. As to engine specific crew talk (much as we dislike it as a waste) most folks would expect this by now. If you are going to have babbling at least have it correct for the engine! Whistle smoke is cool and may or may not be a resale issue since there is no apples to apples competition with the engine. Saw two big boys and a cab forward run at different locations this weekend and none had the smoke units on and only one engine, abb had the sound on and it was set low. If that is the case in many houses, not going to be a concern. Not sure if it is accurate sound wise, but everyone see the Lionel as the gold standard for guest impressions in locomotive sound. 

Just hope the folks that make the plunge enjoy what they purchased. Was at a guys house who has an MTH GS-4 w/Proto 2. Runs smooth as can be, belches smoke if you want, and has station sounds for the Daylight. Not anywhere near the Lionel Legacy version he has yet guests never notice unless they are stopped side by side. Looking forward to hearing what folks think when the Y6's come out. Our local store is at $2,600 for a BB!