Lionel y6b to y6a conversion

Ok. Well I am game. I have two Y6bs that one would look great converted to a Y6a...

I've been told I'm either brave or crazy to cut this engine up but to each his own. I can buy another y6b any day of the week. I enjoy having something nobody else has. After owning a 3rd rail y6a and it being such a rare engine with only 20 produced, the lionel y6b conversion is the next best thing.

Great project - looking forward to updates.

Other projects have have taken over but this one is almost finished and ready for paint.  I’ve cut the walkways, lowered the walkway past the feedwater, temporarily placed the plumbing in line. It will need trimmed and lengthened. The 2nd air pump needs installed on the engineer side. After a little more filing, sanding, and smoothing it will look much better. 

The lower step gap was filled and filed smooth while maintaining the straps. The lower half of the boiler will need some work to accommodate the new piping that will be installed. 

Looking good - keep the updates coming.

This engine will be 2159. Two confirmed y6a engines received smokebox lagging or sheathing. I made a boiler end to have an unlagged version but decided to keep it unique from other brass y6a engines. 

Interesting. It will be even more interesting to see how you remove the Worthington Feedwater heater tank, up by the stack.

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. It will be even more interesting to see how you remove the Worthington Feedwater heater tank, up by the stack.

It’s already been removed. 

The boiler needed to be shortened by roughly 1/2”. The walkways in turn needed to be changed. The boiler has already been shortened and the smokebox cover installed. In addition to the boiler being shortened it also had to be reshaped. The lower half needed to be made round and allow for the new piping from the feedwater heater. 

n&wsteamfan posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. It will be even more interesting to see how you remove the Worthington Feedwater heater tank, up by the stack.

It’s already been removed. 

How about posting close-up photos of that?

The boiler is still in the rough stages but by this weekend it will be smooth and ready to finish. 

I do my own scratch building and casting but mostly in Z scale. I made a Z scale y6a in brass photo etching at home. I have a shop with all the tools needed to do this project.

I am always open to comments and critiques  

Hot Water posted:

n&wsteamfan posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. It will be even more interesting to see how you remove the Worthington Feedwater heater tank, up by the stack.

It’s already been removed. 

How about posting close-up photos of that?

I just posted another in addition to the two already posted earlier. 

Maybe they didn’t post but they show up on my phone. 

Hot Water posted:

n&wsteamfan posted:

Hot Water posted:

Interesting. It will be even more interesting to see how you remove the Worthington Feedwater heater tank, up by the stack.

It’s already been removed. 

How about posting close-up photos of that?

Should be able to see it now. 

Very cool.

"I enjoy having something nobody else has." 

Absolutely; I understand.

Formerly a brass Williams USRA 2-8-2, now a (fairly accurate) GM&O Baldwin Heavy 2-10-0. Fair amount of work. Worth it. It also has ERR Cruise Commander.

I like the Y3 a lot. 

I rechecked the Sunset/3rd Rail website, and see that they offered models of both the Y6a AND Y6b, however their model of the Y6a did NOT have the lagged smokebox (only the Y6b did). I also remember Big Jim pointing out that the model of the Y6a should NOT have had the Worthington cold water turbine pump, but it was easy to remove.

Piping fully attached and soldered in place. Now the part of smoothing can take place on the fireman’s side. 

How are you attaching the brass detail parts to the die-cast shell?

Hot Water posted:

I rechecked the Sunset/3rd Rail website, and see that they offered models of both the Y6a AND Y6b, however their model of the Y6a did NOT have the lagged smokebox (only the Y6b did). I also remember Big Jim pointing out that the model of the Y6a should NOT have had the Worthington cold water turbine pump, but it was easy to remove.

I actually have a 3rd rail y6a 2165. I wanted something more reliable to run. I had to send it back because the brass drive gears stripped out under load. It has become a shelf queen. That’s one reason I went with the lagged smokebox.  

49Lionel posted:

How are you attaching the brass detail parts to the die-cast shell?

I started solder it using my mini torch but soldering diecast is a long process and has to be done correctly or it won’t work. For this I ended up just using epoxy. JB weld works great and is easily shaped with a file. 

This is the piece leftover after cutting. The lower half had to be trimmed and reshaped. A simple piece of brass really helps the lower half in shaping the boiler 

I love projects like this.  Way above my skill level, but neat to watch take shape.

D500 posted:

"I enjoy having something nobody else has." 

Absolutely; I understand.

Formerly a brass Williams USRA 2-8-2, now a (fairly accurate) GM&O Baldwin Heavy 2-10-0. Fair amount of work. Worth it. It also has ERR Cruise Commander.

I like the Y3 a lot. 

Really nice work!

Once everything is attached I’ll strip the paint with my media blaster and have a clean surface to paint. 

I second what Gunrunner said. Very enjoyable thread. I am in awe. Not a lot of people who can cut a half inch slice out of a die cast boiler, among the other things you are doing  Thanks for sharing. 

Great work Steam Fan, please keep your pics coming to us as you progress along until finished and running.....Looks over the top Great...!.....Brandy!

pennsy484 posted:

I second what Gunrunner said. Very enjoyable thread. I am in awe. Not a lot of people who can cut a half inch slice out of a die cast boiler, among the other things you are doing  Thanks for sharing. 

Thanks!. The cutting was the easy part. Making it look like it came from the factory this way is the hard part. Hopefully after a bit more sanding and filing the boiler will be good to go.

Made some progress tonight. Engineers side pumps attached. These are brass and are soldered on. Hopefully it looks ok. I’m limited on parts right now and I’m using the original Lionel pieces. I’ll photoetch a small step for the front walkway down to the cylinder  

Please let me know if you think it’s missing anything. I have dozens of n&w books and google but sometimes I still overlook things 

After talking to Big Jim he pointed out a few differences. The whistle mounting and operation is different on the y6a. The whistle has a support bracket and the rod routing is significantly different. It goes through the sand dome. As can be seen in the third picture. More changes coming  

I removed the ordinal Lionel whistle as it just wasn’t correct. This whistle is from a MTH class a. 

Getting the last detail pieces worked out. A very rough and hand cut front step. I needed a visual piece before wasting time etching the final steps. The brass box will serve as a mounting point for the etched pieces. 

Aaron,
That brass box should be the "Cab Signal" box used on the Shenandoah Div. north from Roanoke to Hagerstown.

Big Jim posted:

Aaron,
That brass box should be the "Cab Signal" box used on the Shenandoah Div. north from Roanoke to Hagerstown.

Thanks Jimmy,

Would it be accurate to model without it? Would engines that had the box went to Portsmouth-Cincinnati? 

I have the drawings completed to etch the pieces with the details for the actual box. 

I am certainly no expert on Y6a vs Y6b variations. However (and you may already know this) one of the differences is in the stack. I think the Y6a stack was a different diameter and is tilted. 

You're a brave man tearing into the Lionel JLC 2200. I have one as well. It is an excellent locomotive. This is going to be an interesting build to follow.

Aaron,
It is OK to do without the box. Only a certain number of engines with the box were assigned to the north end.

Gilly,
All of the Y class engines with the multiple bearing front end throttle had the slant stack. It was something that needed to be done so the throttle would fit between the stack and the flues.

Thanks for the input Big Jim. I was thinking that the tilt of the stack was a variation between the Y6a and Y6b.

Ok so new front steps etched. They still need cleaned and the resist removed. Handrails drilled and sort of mounted. I put them in place to trim the length. Front handrail mounted with new holes being drilled. One final fill of the holes with a final sanding and strip the remaining paint before prime and paint. 

I’m still waiting on my new bell from PSC 

A few more changes and a test fit. Fresh scalecoat paint won’t be here until Saturday. Then it’s on to the paint booth and into the oven. 

 Nice Job! My favorite and most enjoyable part of the hobby, Super-detailing specific locomotives and rolling stock.

   Keep the pics and progress coming

Al

Threw some paint on this evening. Scalecoat always looks good out of the oven. 

Nice work N&WSTEAMFAN. Also noticed your Harley key chain, cool!

You surely put the "Shinola" on that one!

Big Jim posted:

You surely put the "Shinola" on that one!

Hahah yeah scalecoat has that effect. Once the decals are on it will get toned down. 

It looks like its fresh out of the shop ( as it should).

One of the best threads I’ve read on this forum in years. Great job! Can’t wait to see the next entry😎

Tinkered around a little today 

Added rivet details to the brass piece. Probably not prototypical spacing but it’s eye appeal 

Modified the smoke unit unit and have it up and running again. Not quite finished 

Smoke unit modified. Tender stripped and repainted to match the engine. Not quite finished yet but it’s back together 

Looks like very nice smoke!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Looks like very nice smoke!

Thanks John. I have your chuff generator to add as well!

That'll make it even better!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That'll make it even better!

I hope so. It’ll be my first engine with it. Several years ago I used a reed switch and magnets on a Lionel scale J for the 4 chuff rate. I didn’t like how it sounded at higher speeds. It sounded like a machine gun. Your product seems to be a much better option. I’ll do this engine and if it goes how I think it will I have a few more engines to operate on. 

Awesome progress! Scalecoat is a great product. Hard for us up here in Canada to get due to government regulations.

  I have a couple of locos I am looking at modifying to different sub class's in my CPR roster.

Great to see how the modifications are coming along

Al

This thing looks fantastic. I can almost see this coming down the tracks by me shaking the earth as it comes by. Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks everyone. I’m actually more excited to get GRJs chuff generator installed. 4 chuffs per rev and dynamo steam will make this a unique model. 

Looks awesome!  I love the sheen on the paint - just the right amount of glossy.

On my quest to have an accurate O scale y6a I decided to photo etch some parts tonight. A more accurate smoke box, and a new rolled boiler. The boiler was a flat photo etched at home brass sheet that I made and then rolled into shape, unlike the Lionel boiler this engine will not have a sheathed smokebox. I also made a new feedwater box that was more accurate for the y6a. The box has the correct angle. I etched lines on one side so it was a simple matter of just bending the sides into place.

I’ll add rivet details and etch all the little detail pieces this weekend. 

The box was etched with thin lines one the back side so it bent easily into place  

A few more pieces scratch built this evening 

This is just fascinating to watch really.  

A few detail pieces added 

I’ve drawn a new boiler to be etched. Maybe that’ll get done this weekend 

This is a really cool project!

i am very interested in learning more about the tools and photo etch process you use in your home on these types of projects.  

Pictures of the process of producing the small part would be great!

thanks,

mike

New scratch built smoke stack in the works. Etched and rolled brass utilizing lionels original design and stack tip 

Smokestack 

Soldered together. The boiler front will be attached with a brass plate and screws. Now I need to make the flat bottom and get it soldered together 

It’s still a work in progress but it’s getting there. I still have to add more details to it and create more depth to the front rib. That piece needs to stick out further and have the edges filed down. I have a couple of ideas on how to do it

Chuff generator and super chuffer installed today. Very simple installation and great results. 

Here’s a running clip 

https://youtu.be/e9rei1j5yw8

Well, now - I can throw together a presentable bit of scratch bash on occasion - but this kind of work and skill is way beyond me. Really beautiful - and I like the fact that you wanted a Y6a rather than a Y6b. The visual differences between the two are real, but most would be just fine with the "b". These projects I think of as "long walks off short piers", as the work and research required is not reflected in the apparent changes to most eyes - but you can see it. That's really modeling for yourself. I just finished such a project. Not your level of workmanship, but I may post a short thread on it soon.

(Isn't it a shame that we dumb ol' 150 mph 3-railers don't know anything about operation, prototypes and modeling? Huh?)

D500 posted:

Well, now - I can throw together a presentable bit of scratch bash on occasion - but this kind of work and skill is way beyond me. Really beautiful - and I like the fact that you wanted a Y6a rather than a Y6b. The visual differences between the two are real, but most would be just fine with the "b". These projects I think of as "long walks off short piers", as the work and research required is not reflected in the apparent changes to most eyes - but you can see it. That's really modeling for yourself. I just finished such a project. Not your level of workmanship, but I may post a short thread on it soon.

(Isn't it a shame that we dumb ol' 150 mph 3-railers don't know anything about operation, prototypes and modeling? Huh?)

Thank you! 

I feel that a lot of people don’t really have a good understanding of how in-depth scrath building can be. I put in hours of research before I ever touch the model. It might not be for everyone but I am thankful to know there is someone else who appreciates how much work goes into a model like this.

Is it perfect? No, but it’s what I wanted and the time involved makes it worth it to me. The y6a is my absolute favorite engine of all time. I don’t consider myself to be anything but an average modeler, but I thank you for the nice compliment! 

I figured I might as well do it right the first time. Smoothed out the rough walkway that was filled in and the holes around the boiler. The lower half is getting a brass sheet that will be held down by screws inside the boiler. This will give it a perfectly round boiler shape and allow me to solder the new walkway and brass details on

New front end lightly glued in place on the boiler. Smokebox front has been soldered on. 

The original Lionel boiler has to be cut to length and then the boiler milled out to allow  for correct dimensions for an unlagged boiler. 

Time to get this back together. Lower half of the boiler trimmed and modified to allow the top half to slide over it. I have new walkways and the brass details to be soldered on. Rivets will be added too. 

The y6a has a railing at the back of the pilot unlike the y6b. This detail has been added to my model 

Let me rephrase that. Because of clearance needed for the addition of the SA FWH system, the Y6b has front handrails unlike any other of the Y class locos...

A day off spent etching parts. Number board, walkways, and other detail parts etching. I really like how the number board turned out 

n&wsteamfan posted:

A day off spent etching parts. Number board, walkways, and other detail parts etching. I really like how the number board turned out. 

I don't know anything about etching.  Would you mind explaining how you do the etching (and possibly show the tools), for example the number board?

pennsy484 posted:

n&wsteamfan posted:

A day off spent etching parts. Number board, walkways, and other detail parts etching. I really like how the number board turned out. 

I don't know anything about etching.  Would you mind explaining how you do the etching (and possibly show the tools), for example the number board?

I'll second that request. Also, that is the front number PLATE, not "number board", which turned out VERY nice too.

Some more parts today. I have a boiler strap etching to hide the transition from the brass boiler to the original Lionel. 

Search youtube for etching, plenty of details going over all the different methods in detail.  There's more than one way for sure.

The photo etching process can be difficult and there is certainly a learning curve to it but once you get through the learning stages you can create almost anything. Different parts can be layered to make a 3D effect. There aren’t any special tools to do this. A design needs to be drawn with a front and back. It’s printed on a special transparency and the brass is exposed to it under UV light. 

I don’t want to get ahead of myself though. The brass needs to have a special film applied to it called photo resist. This is laminated on the brass. The brass can then be cut to different sizes so you won’t waste any as the prep work to laminate the brass is labor intensive and very time consuming. One mistake and you’ve wasted time, money, and have to do it all over again. 

After you get expose your brass it needs to be devoloped. This is done with a diluted solution of sodium hydroxide. The diluted sodium hydroxide removes all the unexposed areas that were not hit with the UV light. The UV light hardens the resist areas and the unexposed areas wash away. 

Now you are ready to etch. I use ferric chloride for my etching solution. Timing depends on the thickness of the metal and how many details you have. 

TexasSP posted:

Search youtube for etching, plenty of details going over all the different methods in detail.  There's more than one way for sure.

There really isn’t more than one way to etch. There are really only a few etchants that can be used. The process to do them is all the same. Literally all the same. 

After etching the piece needs to have to remaining resist removed. This is done in undiluted sodium hydroxide. 

Starting to look like something. I’m not sure yet what that something is 😁

Boiler strap added this evening. A little more smoothing before it’s finished. I might even add another strap on top for more depth but you can see how the boiler and smokebox will blend together

Last detail for the weekend 

I made a new batch of etching solution. I ruined the fireman’s side walkway trying to etch with old, well used enchant. I’ll have to make a new piece to etch, hopefully this evening. When the etching solution is used the etchings take much longer and they don’t etch evenly as is the case of the walkway. The center etched too much while both ends weren’t etched enough. 

I spend hours searching through google and the nwhs page for picture references. What I have found shows that the y6b engine also had the rear railing on the pilot by the smokebox. I haven’t found a picture of one without it yet. Even the last y6b 2200 shows one. It’s really interesting to me to see the different variations of the y6b. It’s interesting to see 2171 with a swinging bell too  

I have a oval smokebox door that I had always planned on modifying a model to represent the early version 

Phenomenal, love seeing this slowly coming together. The raw color of the boiler actually looks like it is full scale to me.

I had to make a special etching tank to etch the longer pieces. A new and longer bubble filter. I was having a problem of the center etching out completely. Always have a catch pan underneath and a room that can be easily cleaned and ok to get dirty. 

This is a test piece

Very Impressive work...I enjoy watching this loco's transformation.

Real modeling!!!! Just love it.

Ron H

I may get around to getting this thing ready for paint today. It was a late night but the details have all been added. 

I didn’t like the smooth rod I had used so trying to stay close to prototypical I took 4 wires and made a new wire to recreate the wrapping. This is done by twisting the wires and inserting one end into a drill and holding the other end with pliers. Turn the drill and the wires will be tightly wound together 

Ron H posted:

Real modeling!!!! Just love it.

Ron H

Dave Funk posted:

Very Impressive work...I enjoy watching this loco's transformation.

Thank you! I have it ready to prime now 

I'm guessing there's a lot of people that will have no idea how much work goes into something like this, I'm sure it'll be a magnificent locomotive when you're done.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm guessing there's a lot of people that will have no idea how much work goes into something like this, I'm sure it'll be a magnificent locomotive when you're done.

Now this comment means a lot to me. I think so few people realize just how much work goes into doing something like this project. The time involved with research, drawing it on autocad, making the parts, soldering, redoing parts...etc. Now take into account I’ve taken a $1000 model and chopped it up just hoping it’ll look like a y6a when I’m done 😁

You're going to have a real one-of-a-kind - something you'll always be proud of.

n&wsteamfan posted:

Aaron,
Don't forget the other pipe going into the box.

49Lionel posted:

You're going to have a real one-of-a-kind - something you'll always be proud of.

It’ll definitely be a one of a kind....good or bad 🤣

Big Jim posted:

n&wsteamfan posted:

Aaron,
Don't forget the other pipe going into the box.

Hey Jimmy,

I didnt forget it. I put some paint on this evening. I’ll post some pictures tomorrow 

Messing around tonight and threw on the rivers and some paint. This will have to be repainted, not my best job but I wanted to see how the rivets turned out. 

Are those rivets the micro mark decal type ?... they look very good.

Dave Funk posted:

Are those rivets the micro mark decal type ?... they look very good.

These are made by Archer but they are a decal. 

It might sound crazy but I’ll usually paint a model 3-4 times when I’m doing something like this before it’s finished. Little imperfections or details missed show up when the paint is applied. It doesn’t take long to strip and repaint. I made an oops on the smokebox paint anyways so it will have to be stripped. 

I want to create a new walkway on the engineers side that matches the fireman’s side. Same diameter holes. Curved edge. Shorter mounting strap. 

I still have to add flanges to the feedwater pipe and box I made. Work continues at a snails pace. 

Your work on this I would say is the same as an Amish furniture craftsman. I know when I was I  High school, I made a small cherry table and worked on that nearly the entire time until my teacher said I had to finish it. He had said if I polished it up any more it would disappear.

What you are doing is amazing, finding the right tree to work your craft in a sense. I know that I wouldn't be able to do this, I'd be driving up the wall. This will be so special not just to you, but to everyone watching.

This little guy has been keeping me away from finishing the engine. Sometimes there are more important things than trains but try telling him that 

Aaron,
You really need to wrap that little guy in one of these!!!

Finally got around to making the flange. This is another photo-etched piece. I have a nwsl riveter but etching is easier and cleaner. 

It’s been a few months since I’ve done anything to the engine. My time has been spent with my babies instead. I’ve etched a few new parts to try and make it look more prototypical. The fireman’s side walk way. The engine is primed and ready to be painted....again

Getting tired of painting it?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Getting tired of painting it?

Honestly I’ll repaint an engine a dozen times if that’s what it takes to get as close to perfect results. I always try to out do my last job. I’ve learned quite a bit from this project and the next one would be much easier and cleaner. 

Aaron,
Running boards looking good. Check the fillet on the smokestack!

Big Jim posted:

Aaron,
Running boards looking good. Check the fillet on the smokestack!

Thanks Jimmy,

I noticed that too after the first coat of primer. I’ll have to go back and fix it. 

Engineers side before primer. I'll have to take a better picture but the piping going into the smokebox isn’t round at the mounting point. I’ve tried to duplicate the squareness of the mount that goes through the running board  

And don't forget the small pipe that goes into the other side of the box there.

Great Job N&W Steam Fan, the rest of us wished we were so talented...!

I made that pipe Jimmy, I’m not going to make it permanent until the smokebox has been painted. It’s to hard to work around and gets bent to easily 

Great pics and great work!

I finished this engine up and ran it at the trainshow thanksgiving weekend. I’ll post some finished photos in a little bit. I just bought a 3rd rail y6b to do another conversion. It should go much smoother and quicker. 

Here’s a quick YouTube clip

https://youtu.be/thO8GM6Y_8M

What Y6a?
Something went by so fast that I didn't get a decent look at it. What do you think you're doing...running on the Shenandoah Valley line? 

2162 running behind 2200 was it? 2162 has come a long way and looks great. Can't wait to see more.

Big Jim posted:

What Y6a?
Something went by so fast that I didn't get a decent look at it. What do you think you're doing...running on the Shenandoah Valley line? 

Hahaha the engineer thought he was running passenger service that day!

 I have a couple more videos I’ll upload 

Nice Job, I like the whole project.

Forget the videos, you can't see any detail. Go for the "Glam" shots!

PS- Can that off road yellow caboose too! 

I’m getting ready to strip the boiler down and repaint it. I had some issues with the assembly that ruined part of the paint job. I’ve got those worked out now and can make it look perfect again. I wanted to run it at the train show so I threw a quick paint job on to make it look presentable  

I purchased a 3rd rail y6b to do another conversion. This time I’ll be able to solder it and hopefully make it look perfect. 

I wish I had your level of skill and craftsmanship. I've been following this thread for a while, and your work is very impressive. But how come you don't use a Legacy Y6b?