Long Island Rail Road-Oyster Bay Branch

Excellent Andy !!  Love the details.

Tom

STEAMFAN77,

The building and interior details look great. You are very ambitious.

MELGAR

Fabulous work!

Peter

That looks great!!

Ah!  Now I see what the little room is!  The details are great as is the whole model!  It looks great in place trackside!

Stunning job!  Something for me to try in the future.

Great work Andy! You really have outdone yourself on this.

Dave

Thank you guys! I appreciate the kind words. I have a few more details to add, and I’d like to get some lighting in this building. I need to paint some tools and make a work table for the section gang.

Andy

I added some fascia (the trim under the roof) to add some detail, make the building look more like the prototype, and hide a few sins . I'll give the whole building a black wash to blend everything a little more, and give the right level of grime.

Andy

ANdy

Any updates? Hopeful;ly you are well. 

Steve

Ditto.......

Hi guys, thanks for asking. I am well and I hope you are too. I’ve been painting some accessories, and have been planning to build a table, and some lockers for the section house. I’ll also add lighting at some point.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I just caught up with your build, and I am most impressed. It's always great to see a high rail layout so beautifully designed and realized. I love that it is so clean and spare. I know you have a lot of structures to add, but I hope you will preserve some of the openness- I think it really gives it a sense of space and distance. 

I especially like the simple light blue walls for the same reason. One's eye imagines the scenery extending on into infinity. Maybe that is why I've always enjoyed layouts in that stage where the track is laid but no scenery is done. Your eye fills in the rest.  It lets the engines and rolling stock be the stars of the show.

I have seen too many (99%?) modelers who make beautiful buildings and often pretty good 3D scenery and then paint the walls with foliage, mountains and clouds and the results are never up to the level of the built scenery- often glaringly so. Realistic painting is a different skill set and not as easy as it looks. Sometimes less is more.

Well, sorry, your beautiful layout inspired a little rant. I look forward to following your progress.

Will,

Thank you for your kind and insightful comments. I am leaving open spaces as much as possible for the reasons you mentioned. Thanks for looking and sharing your thoughts.

Andy

I made a simple table from styrene for the section gang to go inside the house. I made some grooves in the top to simulate wood grain that you’ll be able to see better when i paint the table. I will add a workbench of sorts from Berkshire Valley Models, and I’ll add some lockers. 

Andy

Added a few more details to the section house. I put some chairs with the table for the crew, some lockers, a work table on top of a couple of oil drums, a lamp and a few books on the desk, and a brass lamp and lantern courtesy of Andre from Riverleaf Models. Thank you Andre! I will add a coal bin for the stove. I already have the shovel. I will call Evan Designs on Monday to order the lighting.

Andy

Andy,

 Don't forget a calendar on the wall and maybe a phone...maybe several buckets/barrels of spikes and wooden pallets, too? 

Tom 

All good ideas and additions Tom.

Andy

Andy,

This is some neat stuff. Even though I won't detail all of my buildings to this level, I feel like there should be some level of detail if a model is closer to the edge of your layout. If you're not going to do the inside then the structure itself should have it. When I watch all of these videos with HO and even N scalers doing this kind of detail, I say there is no excuse for me. 

Great work man, keep it coming.

Dave

Thanks Dave! I haven't done all of my buildings to this degree, but I'll circle back around to them.

Andy

Great looking details, Andy!!

Thanks Mark! I know it’s been a while since an update, but small things take along time 😁

Andy

Andy, great work on the interior details.

Tom

Thanks Tom, I still have a few more to add.

Andy

I can still hear the C-420 chimes in the distance!  Cant wait till your layout is done!

                                               Keep up the great work!

Andy 

Stunning detailed work keep up the good work

Mike and Aidan

Looks great Andy.

SIRT- very nice diesels.

Bob

Looks great.

Dick

Thanks for the kind words guys. Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. The layout has not been accessible for a while. Having some some issues with the basement. I’ll be back at it in a month or so, I hope.

Andy

Andy,

Sorry to hear about  your basement. Look forward to updates when you're able to get back to the layout.

Dave

Thanks Dave!

Andy

Hope you get things straightened out soon Andy.

Bob

I'm sorry you are having issues with the basement, Andy!  On the one hand, basements are ideal for layouts.  On the other hand, a lot of problems can happen in them.  I hope all is resolved soon with little cost.  Our older daughter and her husband have had a bad time with their 100+ year old basement, while the 1888 house I grew up in had relatively few problems even until we sold the house last winter.

Thanks Bob, me too! Mark, so far it has been low cost, I hope it stays that way.

Andy

Started work on the drug store from River Leaf Models. Taking my time and adding some additional detail with the brick work. I added a few different colors of brick. I like the results so far. 

Andy

Andy,

  That looks pretty sharp. Explain a little on the faux stucco part, if you could. Is that a self-adhesive piece that comes with the model? 

Tom 

Very nice looking work, Andy!

@Steamfan77 posted:

Started work on the drug store from River Leaf Models. Taking my time and adding some additional detail with the brick work. I added a few different colors of brick. I like the results so far. 

Andy

 

Well done!

Peter

Thanks Tom, Mark, and Peter. Tom, it’s actually cut into the piece as part of the building. I painted the area to look like concrete. I might add a billboard or two. 

Andy

Great work on the drug store Andy. Looking forward to more updates. The brick and stucco coloring is excellent.

Tom

Thanks Tom, I’m taking this build a little slower and will reference some excellent structure building on this forum.

Andy

Made some more progress on my current building. I installed the “glass” and blinds for the windows, and I assembled the front entry. 

Andy

The entry and the window blinds look great!

Andy just caught this today while enjoying the opportunity to wake up early that a knee replacement brings.  Andre's buildings are fun and he is great to work with.

Your work on this one is excellent. Did Andre do any engraving on the front glass? I can't tell. That is something that he sometimes does and, if you want it, I would give him a call.

How detailed are you making the interior?

Did you get the basement problem solved? I know that was a problem during the summer.

Andy, your Long Island Rail Road Oyster Branch layout is not only impressive but a real adventure as well  Hope you don't mind me adding a couple of  interesting dates in reference to early railroad history in the U.S.A.  

Do you have any plans to put a steam locomotive on display (perhaps in front of a depot) when the layout is completed?

History Lesson: Like the Long Island Rail Road, the Strasburg Rail Road, was also founded in 1832.  Although the LIRR was incorporated in 1834, it's beginning starts in 1832, under the name Brooklyn & Jamica RR. 

For more information please refer to:

www.lirrhistory.com

www.strasburgrailroad.com

The Baltimore & Ohio dates from 1827, however, that's another story altogether.

Godspeed

Joseph Toth Jr.

Asked and answered.

Looks good Andy.

Thank you for the kind words Mark.
Thank you Bill. Andre did not do any engraving, but I’ll keep that in mind for the future. I do plan on adding more detail to this build, but I need to add a floor. The kit didn’t come with one. My basement issue was resolved, thanks for asking.

John, adding information is always welcome. Thanks for you kind words. I don’t have plans to put a steam engine on display, because I’m modeling 1947-1955 (the end of steam). I went to Eisenhower Park as a kid and went aboard #35 when it was on display there until they moved it to Oyster Bay. A few years ago, I went to Oyster Bay and saw #35 there in pieces, as they were restoring various parts of it. If I hit the lottery I would have it completely restored and run excursions all over the LIRR.
Thank you Bob.

Andy

Well, I'm "Old Joe" not John, but thank you for not throwing me into the frying pan in regards to the early RR dates. 

I certainly understand your desire to win the lottery and put the $$$ into the restoration of the #35!  Of course, if the winnings had been high enough, you could have purchased it outright!  Imagine running it on the Strasburg Rail Road today?  WOW!

Joseph Toth Jr.

Andy:

Yours is fabulous modeling. Keep the progress photos coming.

Sorry Joe! Thanks Randy!

@Steamfan77 posted:

... I went to Eisenhower Park as a kid and went aboard #35 when it was on display there until they moved it to Oyster Bay.

Andy

A long time ago, during the years it was permitted, I used to fly model airplanes in Eisenhower Park adjacent to LIRR #35. Another thing nearby that has been removed was the sign on Merrick Avenue commemorating Lindbergh's takeoff from Roosevelt Field.

MELGAR

No problem Randy.  Probably just a slight slip of the fingers.  It's happened to me before as well.

MELGAR, why was the Lindbergh sign removed? 

Andy- I went to Nassau CC after HS in 1980 (can't believe it's 40 years ago). #35 was on the old Central Extension at the north end of campus near Stewart Ave. at the time. I remember climbing around it and thought it was an amazing machine.

Mel- there is a new monument to Lindbergh's flight behind the Source Mall (east of RF). Not in a very prominent spot unfortunately. If I recall, it's supposed to be the exact spot where he took off. The Cradle of Aviation Museum is nearby and they have a great display.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Andy- I went to Nassau CC after HS in 1980 (can't believe it's 40 years ago). #35 was on the old Central Extension at the north end of campus near Stewart Ave. at the time. I remember climbing around it and thought it was an amazing machine.

Mel- there is a new monument to Lindbergh's flight behind the Source Mall (east of RF). Not in a very prominent spot unfortunately. If I recall, it's supposed to be the exact spot where he took off. The Cradle of Aviation Museum is nearby and they have a great display.

Bob

Bob,

I didn't know that as I don't live in the area any more. But glad to hear it. Thanks.

MELGAR

Speaking of Lindbergh.  I hope I'm not suffering from "Oldtimers" but I'm quite sure I purchased a model of The Spirit of St. Louis in 1/48 after I saw the motion picture that starred James Stewart in the mid-50s.  Any of you guys who remembers the movie and/or model please sound off.  Thanks.

Bob, I graduated HS in 1980 as well, it feels like yesterday! I hope #35 gets restored to some degree, if even only for looks. The Cradle of Aviation museum is part of Museum Row in Garden City. I’d like to go back soon.

Andy

@Steamfan77 posted:

Bob, I graduated HS in 1980 as well, it feels like yesterday! I hope #35 gets restored to some degree, if even only for looks. The Cradle of Aviation museum is part of Museum Row in Garden City. I’d like to go back soon.

Andy

With 39 being restored to operating condition, there just isn't enough money to go around for 35.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Speaking of Lindbergh.  I hope I'm not suffering from "Oldtimers" but I'm quite sure I purchased a model of The Spirit of St. Louis in 1/48 after I saw the motion picture that starred James Stewart in the mid-50s.  Any of you guys who remembers the movie and/or model please sound off.  Thanks.

 

 

I saw the James Stewart movie, but it was only about 10 years ago.  I was born in the mid-50s.  I know I have seen model kits of the Spirit of St. Louis, but since I only built model automobiles, I didn't pay attention to the scale.

Hello Andy & fellow L.I.R.R. fans.  I am sooo encouraged to see here, many comments going back and fourth .  i'm a newly signed up member earlier this year, but have been trying to follow for many years. Family, work, an scouts have had most of my attention the last 20yrs.  I am looking towards retirement an my youthful hobby of model railroading for the last 5 winters.  Christmas layouts have kept us going always.  i've been going through my collection of equipment & structures consolidating their area and uses.  this has lead to fixing an restoring some of it to be more realistic .  i'm also a L.I.R.R. fan since i was a kid w/ dad riding trains = he was a signal supvr for the old bmt, irt, ind, systems subways an elevated. it was fun tagging along with him as a kid.  i used to buy friends old lionel and repaint them to look like LIRR cars - like the baby madisons & old freight cars.  plastiville was a challenge as well once you realize it wasn't scale.  anyway,  looking forward to new layout after the demo of the kids table for so long.  emptying out the basement has been another challenge = ha .   ok, hope i haven't tested your patience - looking forward to seeing more of your designs and layout work.  i hadn't realized how powerful this forum is not being a computer guy.  

wish you well an be safe out there,  Doug

Welcome Doug! Good to see a new member and a LIRR fan to boot! Hope you start your own thread soon. Look forward to seeing what you do.

Andy

Got the top wall covers and side door installed. Slow, but progress nonetheless...😉

Andy

@Steamfan77

Andy:

That is great modeling. What are you using for the brick covering?

Hi Randy, can’t take credit for the brick, it comes like that. All I did was paint it. I used some joint compound tinted with black to tone down the bright white, and used red oxide for the brick. I painted a few random bricks a different color for some visual interest. This is the Apothecary from River Leaf Models. Andre has lots of nice kits.

Andy

Andy, the painting of the brick and cement/stucco covering looks great!  The individual darker bricks really enhances the look!

@Steamfan77 posted:

Hi Randy, can’t take credit for the brick, it comes like that. All I did was paint it. I used some joint compound tinted with black to tone down the bright white, and used red oxide for the brick. I painted a few random bricks a different color for some visual interest. This is the Apothecary from River Leaf Models. Andre has lots of nice kits.

Andy

Andy:

Bravo! your technique is superb!

Thank you Randy!

Got the windows installed today. I’d like to put a poster of some kind in the front window, and one on the side of the building.

Andy

It looks great, Andy!!  Is it a River Leaf kit from Andre?

@Steamfan77 posted:

Got the windows installed today. I’d like to put a poster of some kind in the front window, and one on the side of the building.

Andy

For the poster...maybe Lionel Trains, the LIRR or an old hobby shop?

Tom

@PRR8976 posted:

For the poster...maybe Lionel Trains, the LIRR or an old hobby shop?

Tom

Well if the decision is to go with "an old hobby shop" what better than WILLIS HOBBIES.

Thank you Mark, Tom, and Arthur. I forgot to mention that this is an apothecary or  older type drug store building. Yes Mark, it’s the apothecary kit from Andre at River Leaf

Andy

I added some trim details on the windows and door on the front and side of the building.
Andy

I like the way you painted yours better than mine.

Looks great Andy.

How about some local flavor (pun intended) , an advertisement for "Davenport Press", or "The Jolly Fisherman".

Bob

It's been many years since I've eaten at the Davenport Press.  I think the last time was a retirement luncheon or maybe a Christmas party.

No way Mark, I like yours every bit as mine. Nice work! Thanks Bob, I think that’s a great idea! I was in the area a few weeks ago, and went to a building next to the Davenport Press.

Andy

I started working on the entrance to the staging area. The walls are made of 1/16" Masonite, and the portals are from Scenery Express. I just wanted to dress this area up a bit. I'll paint these pieces and give them a more aged appearance. More to follow.

Andy

Hi Andy- been wondering what you've been up to. I was at Davenport recently. Have you seen the area?

Sad..........

Bob,

I have seen it, I agree it's sad to see. The sub station and tower are gone, and a lot of history with them. Glad I got pictures of everything when I did.

Andy

Did some painting and weathering on the walls and tunnel portal. Next I’ll  add some greenery.

Andy

Andy,

  That looks great. One very, very minor suggestion. In that area where the bushes are there is something silver in color (mainly in the center strip, less to the left)--if I recall, maybe that is where your hinges are. Maybe just slap a little dull green paint on to camouflage it a little.

Keep up the great work.

Tom

Thanks Tom, those are the hinges peaking through. That’s on my to do list for sure. In using the lift up, the bushes came loose. I will paint it again as you suggested, then come up with a more durable solution.

Andy

A little off topic, we added a new pup to the mix in April. He’s only 10 pounds, but he’s a tiger! His name is Ben  

Andy

Train buddy in the making!

I hope so Mark!

Andy

I completed the bush/ground cover repair on the hinges for the lift up. I also added some greenery at the base of the wall and portals. Ground cover is like eating a potato chip, you can’t at just one.

Andy

Looks nice Andy!  Certainly far better than the hinges!

Thanks Mark! I painted the hinges then covered them with a finer material. That should wear a little better.

Andy

@Steamfan77 posted:

I completed the bush/ground cover repair on the hinges for the lift up. I also added some greenery at the base of the wall and portals. Ground cover is like eating a potato chip, you can’t at just one.

Andy

Andy,

  Excellent use of camoflauge skills. Cannot see any hinges!

Tom

Andy,

Great work! This scene is really coming together. I'm stealing your "foliage over hinges" idea. That is very clever.

Dave

Thanks Tom! Thank you Dave! It’s all yours. Look forward to seeing what you do.

Andy

Looks good Andy.

Like the pup too!

Bob

I think that you have some of the best trackwork that I have seen. And I am a two-railer!

Thanks Bob. He’s a handful but is worth it.

Wow, thanks Dave!

Andy

I’m planning how to proceed with this small stream and bridge scene. I placed a piece of painted Masonite as the base. I’ll do some more painting on this before I add the bridge and banks. The bridge will be made of stone and brick on the interior arch.

Andy

That's a nice base for your stream, Andy!

Andy,

I will be watching this. When I tell you I love bridges, I mean I love bridges.

Dave

Thanks Mark! I have some more prep work to do for sure.

Dave, I’m going to try and get this just right. The bridge (prototype) is a combination of stone and brick. It’s small but an interesting feature on the layout.

Andy

My first attempt at making the bridge out of foam. This is a rough version. I’ll clean it up a little and do some painting and weathering.  There will also be two abutments on either side of the opening.

Andy

That looks great so far, Andy!  Are you going to have a rim of stone right above the arch with a keystone in the middle?

Nice bridge! JohnA

Thank you Mark! Thank you John. There will actually be brick on the inside of the arch, and the larger stone will continue on the lower part of the arch. No keystone on the prototype, but I need to make the abutments on either side to give a more complete picture.

Andy

Andy,

I'm late on this but it looks like you have a good start on the bridge. I will be continuing to watch your progress. I'm interested in what bridge you are

Dave

@Steamfan77 posted:

My first attempt at making the bridge out of foam. This is a rough version. I’ll clean it up a little and do some painting and weathering.  There will also be two abutments on either side of the opening.

Andy

Andy,

  Very nice. I've actually tried that several years ago. So, what did you do to make it come out so well...are you using an X-Acto knife to make the rows of stone?

Tom

Thanks Dave. It’s a small bridge over a little stream before you enter the Oyster Bay yard.
Thanks Tom. I used a mechanical pencil to make the initial mortar lines, then went back over them with a dull No#2 pencil to widen them. I’ll clean up the arch a little then add the abutments on either side. I will also add some bricks to the interior of the arch. I will also add the banks on either side of the stream, then add the water.
Below  you can see the bridge in place. I sanded to get the fit I wanted.

Andy

Nicely done! It seems to fit very snugly.

Tom

Looks nice Andy.

I think I found the  prototype.

Bob

Thanks Tom, I’m happy with the fit

Bob, did you get that from the Trainsarefun website? If so, I took that picture and a few more! Steve Lynch posted them with my permission. See below

Andy

I should have put 2 and 2 together. 👍

Very nice job modeling the prototype

Andy, any idea when this LIRR bridge was built, put and put into service, looks like its' been there for a long time. Nice to learn that these "old time" LIRR structures are still around and in use and able to be seen.

Thanks Mark.

Arthur, according to the hand drawn maps from Robert Emery, the bridge was built in 1889. I agree, I enjoy the history, and learning about the history too.

Andy

@Steamfan77 posted:

Thanks Mark.

Arthur, according to the hand drawn maps from Robert Emery, the bridge was built in 1889. I agree, I enjoy the history, and learning about the history too.

Andy

Very cool, 1889, bridge would've seen 4-4-0's and Camelbacks. With the stainless steel commuter railroad the LIRR has become, how many people now on Long Island can picture that scene ?

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hope everyone is enjoying their holiday. This bridge has  been there from the beginning. 1889 was the same year that the Long Island Rail Road reached Oyster Bay.

Andy

I made the stones on the bottom inside of the arch. The rest of the inside of the arch is brick. I will apply mortar to the brick to make them stand out a little. I made the top row of stones for the top of the bridge as well. I will glue them once the bridge is in place under the track. I cut the abutments to a rough shape front and back, I’ll start on those next.

Andy

Andy,

You are doing a great job with this. Thanks for taking us through the process. I can tell that this will be a great scene. I actually attempted something similar but had a less than desirable outcome than you. The bridge I was attempting was on a curve.

Anyways, I'm enjoying the progress.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the kind words. I can’t imagine doing this on a curve.

Andy

Looks great, Andy!

Thank you Mark!

Andy

@Steamfan77 posted:

I made the stones on the bottom inside of the arch. The rest of the inside of the arch is brick. I will apply mortar to the brick to make them stand out a little. I made the top row of stones for the top of the bridge as well. I will glue them once the bridge is in place under the track. I cut the abutments to a rough shape front and back, I’ll start on those next.

Andy

@Steamfan77

Andy:

That is superb work carving the block work into the foam. Bravo!!!! It is a tedious process but the outcome is worth it. I have done it many times.

Thank you Randy! I appreciate that coming from you. I’ve seen your work, it’s excellent.

I added some mortar to the brick, which is joint compound mixed with burnt umber. I also made one of the abutments that will be on the side. One down, three to go.

Andy

I had to make an adjustment to the size of the abutments. While the larger one is more prototypical, it doesn’t fit well in the space available. The one on the right is the original, and the one on the left has been modified to fit the space a little better.

Andy

Looks good Andy! We all have to make compromises to make things fit or "look right".

Dave

Thanks Dave, I was hoping to use the first version, but reality showed up. 😁

Andy

Finished the abutments front and back. These are the front abutments cut and placed. I’ll rough up the abutments a little. Don’t want the edges to be too sharp.I will attach them with some adhesive, then start painting.

Andy

I attached the abutments front and back. The bridge has been primed and is ready for paint. I want to wait a day or two to make sure it is completely dry.

Andy

Looking good Andy! What did you prime it with?

Dave

Can't wait to see more Andy!

Thanks Dave, I primed it with Mod Podge and some white acrylic paint.

Thanks Bob, next up is the paint then some dark wash and maybe some weathering powders.

Andy

It looks great!

Thanks Mark. I confess I watched Joey Ricard’s videos. Search for Trackside Scenery on You Tube. He is very talented (funny too). I also learned a great deal from the forum members here.

Andy

I have seen a few of Joey Ricard's videos, but it has been some time since I have.  Thank you, Andy!

Good luck Mark, looks like a nice area. had the same ideas many years ago never completed or happened. So looking foreword to see your layout take shape GarGraves sounds great

JP

I applied the gray top coat to the bridge. Next, I’ll add a few darker spots and some mossy areas for contrast, then a black wash and maybe some weathering powders.

Andy

Andy, the first coat of paint makes it look good.  Extra colors and shading, along with vegetation mill make it look even better.

Andy this is looking good. Please continue to show us the details of what you are doing as you go along. Copying is a compliment.

Thanks,

Bill

Andy,

This is really turning out to be a great bridge. I still can't get over your brick work. You may have already planned to do this, but painting individual bricks will definitely enhance the realism of the bridge. Lighter greys, darker greys, some browns, and maybe even a little light rust color. These were all colors I picked up in the prototype photo you showed. It wouldn't take much time as you wouldn't paint every brick. This along with your shading will yield great results. Great work on this!

Dave

Thank you Mark. I definitely want to add those details to enhance the final version.

Will do Bill. We all copied from somewhere 😁

Thanks Dave, you read my mind. That will be incorporated for sure.

Andy

I added some detail on the brick work for the bridge. I also added some spots of moss in spots on the stone, then gave the whole bridge a black wash to dirty things up a bit. The moss towards the bottom is right above where the water line will be.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all.

Andy

It is really looking great, Andy!!

Thank you Mark! Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Andy

Andy,

You have done some work on this project. Check your email.

Dave

I wasn’t completely satisfied with the look of the stone bridge. I got some encouragement and direction from Dave (luvindemtrains), thanks Dave! I think it has more character now. I’ll give it a black wash and touch it up with some weathering powders. Everything below the red line will be hidden by earth, ground cover, etc.

Andy

It looks great, Andy!  Dave gave expert advice, and you learned well!

Andy,

  It almost looks too beautiful to hide now!

Tom

Home run!

Thanks Mark! I tried to follow Dave’s ideas.

Tom, it will hidden even more when I have the ground cover and earth in place. But I’ll know it’s there 😁

Thank you Bill!

Andy

That’s exactly right.  I’ve heard it said before about building sides that face the wall and interiors no one can see

@Steamfan77 posted:

Thanks Dave. It’s a small bridge over a little stream before you enter the Oyster Bay yard.
Thanks Tom. I used a mechanical pencil to make the initial mortar lines, then went back over them with a dull No#2 pencil to widen them. I’ll clean up the arch a little then add the abutments on either side. I will also add some bricks to the interior of the arch. I will also add the banks on either side of the stream, then add the water.
Below  you can see the bridge in place. I sanded to get the fit I wanted.

Andy

Well done!

Peter

Yay Andy! I'm glad I could help. I think once you do your scenery around it you will be very pleased. Keep it coming brother.

Dave

Thank you Peter!