Looking for information from users on failure rates of remotes

JGL,

   Never had a failure to this point, however I run Legacy & DCS remote Control's right now, my wife just picked up the new Hallmark/Lionel Santa Train, it has it's own remote control package, hope it has no problems down the road.

PCRR/Dave

No remote problems here.

One since the original 1995 release with the NYC GP-9 and two since then, all still work.

One new CAB2, no problems.

The one problem I did have was that someone at modular show broke the antenna. I had to fix that but used a radio shack part. Ended up getting a original Lionel part and everything is just fine.

Charlie

I have had DCS for about 9 years. Presently, I've got one remote and one TIU. At my peak, I had 3 remotes and 2 TIUs.

During those past 9 years:

1 DOA Remote

About 4 remote failures, all repaired either under warranty or out of my own pocket

One TIU failure (although I may have contributed to this). My tech wasn't 100% sure. I paid out of pocket happily.

I've not had any LionChief Plus remote issues but have had engine issues. One DOA, the other the smoke unit.

I now run conventional - failure rate for any of my conventional control transformers? 1. I had an MTH Z-Controller leaking voltage. My dealer replaced it immediately. Otherwise, I'm runnin' trains happily.

MTH DCS: Two TIU' with remotes since 2009 - no failures. Five AIU's - no failures.

Lionel Legacy: One base and two remotes since 2012 - no failures. (Replaced the rechargeable batteries  with Lithium batteries in one of the remotes, and these batteries seem to last forever.)

Alex

I have had DCS for about 4 years or so, got it right when the Rev L TIU came out (whenever that was), I have had Legacy since early last Sept. or a little over a year. Had to wait on that delay with a part problem or whatever that was, had ordered it a year earlier.

DCS : The thumbwheel on my DCS remote broke, it was the plastic bracket that holds it in place. However it was never really non-functional, I was still able to use it and run trains with it. I was able to shim it up with a piece of wood and hot glue while I waited for my replacement thumbwheel from MTH. I got the new thumbwheel but didn't replace it right away, my wood shim worked well for a couple years or so. Finally replaced when I dropped the remote and it dislodged the shim. It was an easy fix, worst part was opening the remote and getting everything lined up again to put it back together. Still using it today and it works very well. 

To be fair here, this was probably somewhat self inflicted as I was pressing a bit hard on the wheel at times. I have lightened up since, but the thumbwheel is probably somewhat of a weak link on the remote. However, it survived my dropping it very well. While I was watching it hit the concrete floor, I remember thinking it was going to be time for a new remote, but it came through without a scratch.

Legacy: Remote is still working just fine, no problems with that at all. However, the base had to go back to Lionel because it would not update. No problems with the remote updating, that worked just fine. Lionel fixed it and all is well now. Updated it again just a few weeks ago.

4-TMCC Cab 1 Remotes - many hours of use - no failures

1-Legacy Cab 2 Remote and Base station - light use - no failures

2-DCS Remotes and TIU's - heavily used - no failures

Once in a very  great while if I am on the far side of my layout,its about 36 ft from my base..I will get a momentary interruption in communication with my engines.However somebody was on here a long while back saying if you have to large of a group of wires tie strapped together it will cause that.I have some under the table that I bet are 2-3 inches in diameter.Nick

Running 3 Lionchief engines, never had an issue with the engine or remote. 

I have two DCS remotes one of which I've had since they were introduced.  I've also had a Lionel TMCC remote since they were first offered, haven't had an issue with either one.  Knock on wood.

I have two LionChief Thomas the Tank RTR remotes which are still working fine after a couple of years.

Three LionChief Plus remotes. No problems whatsoever.  Will be getting the universal remote.

I have no Lion Chief remotes but have a DCS original remote and a TMCC CAB1 that have been in use for 13 years and a Legacy Cab 2 with no problems.

Mikey

Add me to the list of no problems.

TMCC base and remote since 1996.  No failures.  Cleaned the contacts a couple years ago.

Legacy base and remote since 2013. No Failures.

DCS TIU/AIU and remote since 2007.  No failures.

Lionchief since 2014. No failures.

I purchased the CAB 1 back in 1997, and other than the Command Base going out of tune once, all is good.

We bought the Thomas RTR set in 2012 with the remote and then the Polar Express RTR set with remote in 2013. Both sets have been used by our kids ages 2-6 and their friends with and without adult supervision (hey, sometimes even I need a nap!). The remotes have been dropped, kicked, thrown, stepped on, hugged, loved, drooled on, left turned on for days...and they just keep working like they are brand new!!! A great product that makes it easy for even the youngest of kids to enjoy the trains and blasting the whistle!!!

I have a DCS remote circa 2012.  I use it for about 2 months a year during Christmas.  So far the only issue is the click wheel has failed once in 2014, during 3rd season.  My failure was different than RTR12, in that when you would spin the wheel, the tracking of speed would jump all over the place as in increase speed instead of decrease or vise versa or nothing all all.  The replacement wheel is already acting up, but is not bad enough to spin the 16 bucks on a new wheel.

Bill

Operating with TMCC (one remote), Legacy (one remote) and DCS (two remotes) I've encountered no problems with the remotes.

DCS: First generation TIU.  2 out of 4 channels have failed with no signal on those channels.  Thumbwheel on remote is inconsistent.  I have the early version with small ridges, and the ergonomics are quite poor.  The remote is long overdue for a redesign.  I generally use it in Tethered mode to maximize reliability, but I've been told it's not possible to tether 2 remotes simultaneously.

Legacy:  Shortly after launch, I sent the base back to Lionel for the firmware upgrade.  I never use the charging feature as I've been advised that it doesn't work, so I put black insulation tape on the charging terminals, and use ordinary alkaline batteries in the remotes.  I have 2 remotes, no issues except the size and weight.  Wouldn't hand it to a young child because of the glass screen, and expense of replacing it if dropped.  Much better than the original Cab-1, and I vastly prefer the ergonomics of the improved red knob with its detents to the thumbwheel.

1 TMCC remote and base bought when it first came out. No problems.

DCS remote ver. 1 had thumbwheel replaced about 10 yrs ago as it was jumping around sent tiu in with it and they upgraded the version for me . no problems since.

When I first got into TMCC in the late '90s I bought the system and a second remote. I never had any problems with either remote except that I broke the antenna on one of them. I got a replacement antenna from Lionel and it still works today. I sold the other remote to my friend who still has it and it is still working today.

My first DCS remote broke. The wire that went from the main board to the antenna board came off the circuit board. It couldn't be fixed or at least I didn't want to pay to get it fixed. Some of the traces came off the board and I felt it would cost as much as new one to fix it if it even could be fixed. Someone or myself may have been able to cobble something together to make it work but I felt it wasn't worth the effort. The remote continued to work in tethered mode until I sold it along with a blown TIU to a fellow OGR forum member member who wanted use them in displays for Command Control clinics.

I bought a new DCS system when the REV L came out and I have had zero problems with the remote from that system.

I bought a NCE DCC system about 7 years ago and I have two DCC remotes for that system which have worked perfectly ever since.

All in all I have had very little problems with remotes.

TMCC Cab1 and base are 15 years old and still working fine. Legacy base and Remote are 5 years old. The base was replaced when it was about 6 months old and the Cab-2 crapped out last month. Lionel repaired it under warranty. They received it the Monday after Thanksgiving and I had it back that Friday.  

Had the tmcc remote since 1995, still works and the dcs since 2001---still works.

2 cab 2's (2014) and 2 Lion chiefs (2015) .....no issues to date except one cab 2 had to go back to Lionel shortly after I bought it for malfunctioning LCD screen...turnaround was under 1 1/2 weeks.

-Pete

zwbob posted:

TMCC Cab1 and base are 15 years old and still working fine. Legacy base and Remote are 5 years old. The base was replaced when it was about 6 months old and the Cab-2 crapped out last month. Lionel repaired it under warranty. They received it the Monday after Thanksgiving and I had it back that Friday.  

Could you provide any more detail on how it 'crapped out'?  I'm trying to build a consensus of what the actual problems are.  Thanks.  

I went to turn it on and the screen blinked then went blank. I did this one more time with the same results. The third time it didn't even blink. It wouldn't turn on. The base was fine. I used a friends Cab2 to run the layout because I was having about 20 guys over the next day. Lionel replaced 3 or 4 components in it.

zwbob posted:

I went to turn it on and the screen blinked then went blank. I did this one more time with the same results. The third time it didn't even blink. It wouldn't turn on. The base was fine. I used a friends Cab2 to run the layout because I was having about 20 guys over the next day. Lionel replaced 3 or 4 components in it.

Thank you for the information.  

JGL

I have 2 DCS remotes, both since 2011 with moderate use and no failures.  1 TIU also no failures.  

I was wondering if you were going to calculate failure rates.  Failure rates are typically expressed in failures per operating hour.  Maybe for remotes you might want to express the rate in failures per 1000 operating hours.  Since the remotes are never really "off", it might reasonable to assume they are always on.   You could calculate operating hours per year as 8,760 yearly operating hours or 8.7 per 1000 yearly operating hours.  As a made up example, if your data showed 15 total failures in 35 total yearly operating years, the failure rate would be 15/(35*8.7)=15/304.5=0.049 failures per 1000 operating hours.   MTBF = 1000/0.049=20,408 operating hours.  MTBF is Mean Time Between Failure

shorling posted:

I was wondering if you were going to calculate failure rates.  Failure rates are typically expressed in failures per operating hour.  Maybe for remotes you might want to express the rate in failures per 1000 operating hours.  Since the remotes are never really "off", it might reasonable to assume they are always on.   You could calculate operating hours per year as 8,760 yearly operating hours or 8.7 per 1000 yearly operating hours.  As a made up example, if your data showed 15 total failures in 35 total yearly operating years, the failure rate would be 15/(35*8.7)=15/304.5=0.049 failures per 1000 operating hours.   MTBF = 1000/0.049=20,408 operating hours.  MTBF is Mean Time Between Failure

I'd love to actually do real research at some point, but for now, just looking for a general idea.  I guess I expect folks here to have posted about all the failures they ever heard about and haven't yet heard about nearly as many as I expected.  A few broken thumb wheels.  some legacy remotes with scrambled brains, and one super-cheap thomas board that fried in the infancy of that tech.  Maybe someone could clear it up, but I do believe that the thomas set in question used an old school analog transmitter, nothing like what is in LC/LC+.    In any case I'm finding so far that remote failures don't seem to be very common at all, and not one reported case of a lost remote yet.  Other than the thumb wheel bracket, which appears to be a design fault, and broken antennas on cab1's there doesn't seem to be any mechanical failures either.  

I know it won't be entirely accurate, but I would guess it is close that the rest of the 517 views at this point never had any problems.  

Just saw a post on the tmcc/legacy forum from Frankfordjunction with a dead cab2, won't turn on after being stored, so figured I'd add it to the list here

Two 15-20 year old TMCC cab-1s, three recent LionChief Plus remotes.  Light use for each over the years.  No failures as yet.

I have worked on at least 35 CAB-1 remotes.  Some of the problems:

1.  Button contacts worn, perhaps due to heavy use or hard pressing,

2.  Red wheel sensors out of alignment,

3.  Red wheel's shaft very loose, spins too freely

4.  Bad battery connections or corrosion

5.  PC board trace discontinuities

6.  Microcontroller problems, including a couple that would spontaneously repeatedly transmit.  Never figured that out.

7.  Damaged antenna

8.  Dead crystal

9.  Prior attempts to repair

My overall success rate is probably around 85%, but the hard problems can be very frustrating.

IMO, all remote control devices, trains and otherwise have a service life.  Based upon my experience with all of the remote control devices at home, I estimate that model train remotes should last about 10-12 years. Since Lion Chief trains are less expensive than Legacy or DCS, the amortization cost over the service life has been reduced.

I still have my original DCS system remote and have two more spares. I still have my original Legacy remote. I've had no failures of the equipment except on the part of the user (Yours truly) by improperly installing batteries.

I had couple of the old TMCC remotes years ago and both failed eventually. The worst remote was with the Z4000 wireless controller (No longer made) Three remotes failed within three years - the whole mess went to the trash.