Mars light needed

The better DCC decoders I am familiar with, allow you to program one of the functions as a mars light.    Usually they 7-9 available functions that can be programmed to behave separately - ie control separate things.    And they have many different light behaviors that can be assigned to the various functions.   

If you want to get into more complex prototypical control of varioius lights and other features, it is something to consider long term.

Thanks for your reply.  I am actually looking for something that physically looks more like the prototype...not the function.  I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

You might want to try Miniatronics. They claim the effect mimics the figure-8 pattern of a MARS light.

http://www.miniatronics.com/Me...&Product_Count=1

Following Larry's post on this and the 3R forum, I'd also be interested in a more prototypical Mars light (in my case in function rather than physical appearance) for my Lionel FEF-3, but we are talking about a 3 rail model without DCC and with the hazard light function controlled by a Legacy on/off button. I'm not sure whether or how the Miniatronics board and light would work under this system. In the Lionel FEF-3 the hazard light is wired to a circuit board controlled by the Legacy system.

The bulb for the hazard light looks to be an ordinary incandescent bulb, not an LED, but I don't know what voltage it is. It's Lionel part number 6101116301.  The other bulbs for this engine appear to be 14-18V.

Larry, your only hope is a Precision Scale brass casting, if they still have one available, They did at one time in O scale. Hancock, Lionel has available a seperate circuit board Mars light that works with a LED. You might ask Mike R. if it will work in the Northern. I would guess it could be wired in the circuit.

Thanks very much Chuck, I'll follow this up. Do you know which Lionel model that circuit board was made for?

I beleive it is for the early NKP 2-8-4, around 2002. Looks better than the on/off flashing on the UP model. 

Good thread.  I did check with Precision Scale and the only one they have is a double mars light for the CB&O.  I'm trying to get a picture from them to see if it can be modified. 

If that doesn't pan out, I might have someone locally make one for me.  When my 611 N&W J took a tumble, the cross head guides broke.  They were unavailable from Lionel for what seemed to be forever.  So I had a machinist make them.  He was also a train guy so that helped very much.  I'm also thinking that if that doesn't work, changing the shape, etc. with some body filler.  We'll see.  I have one to practice on.

I just realized what I wrote...the double mars light would never work.  Late night, I gues...

Larry,

 The only other idea I can come up with is (a little expensive) Lionel still shows the boiler front available for the NKP 2-8-4 (630-8050-016) , which has the Mars light assembly included, I'm reasonably sure the casting is just mounted by a screw, and the red LED is included. This is what the circuit board I refered to earlier powers.

Awesome!  Thanks so much.  I can't find USH anywhere on the internet.  Maybe I'm just not good at Googling things, but I just haven't been able to find much.  I would love to see a picture of the light (and the model), if that's not too much trouble.  I saw one on Youtube as it was moving out, but I couldn't see the details too well. 

I would like to run the wire to the side of the boiler front...not directly behind it.  I'm somewhat new to the O scale side of things (was more of a traditional collector before), but the 844 was always my favorite engine and now I'm on a mission to make it as prototypical (in my eyes) as possible.

And speaking of the Lionel light, it just appears too flat to me when comparing it to the real 844.

I do really appreciate your help! 

You might contact Sunset/3rd Rail and see if they have any parts remaining from their run of UP FEF-3 models, of a few years ago. That "red only" Mars light casting looks pretty good to me, on my model of UP841.

Thanks, Jack.  I don't know the specifics about the real 844, though I am learning.  While we're on the topic of the mars light, how did it function on the 800s?  Was it on much of the time, only when stopped, etc...?  I'm only familiar with seeing videos of the Daylight GS-4 and that light seems to be on all the time in a figure-8 pattern.  The vidoes of the 844 never seem to have it on.

Since we are talking about both castings and electrics I thought I'd weigh in once more.

I've traced the NPR mars light PCB, it's Lionel part 691MAR1A01. As Chuck says, looks like the boiler front has the light (an LED) included. Also, helpfully there's a wiring diagram for this model (6-38050) showing the PCB connected to two pins on the motherboard and brown and black wires leading elsewhere. The black wires lead to the LED but through some connectors - which from the diagram don't seem to be anything other than physical connectors.

So, I might open up one of my Legacy FEF-3s (I liked it enough to get a second one at auction) and see if I can work out a way to install this board.

Larry, I understand what you are saying about the appearance of the mars light housing on this model as from photos of 844 - at least as it is now - the Lionel version is not really prototypical. Sunset 3rd Rail recently (2009) produced a brass O scale version of 844 but I can't say that they'd be able to supply a spare housing. What I'm posting below is a pre-production photo of this model as I don't have one of the model as issued. Maybe this is more like what you are looking for.

Yes!  That's what I'm looking for.  I thought the model I saw of theirs (3rd Rail) at York had the mars light extending through the boiler front.?  I thought it looked quite odd, honestly.  Is the one you attached a photo of an HO model?

Larry, relying purely on what I learned when researching this a few years back, the FEF-3 mars light is really a hazard light that was turned on when the loco was stopped or when running in reverse. This is what I think the Lionel version seeks to replicate; I'm not sure but it may be that in the 3rd Rail version the light only functions when the engine runs in reverse.

In any case (as a thread elsewhere on this forum notes as respects the mars light defect in one of Lionel's more recent Legacy offerings), as it functions as a red hazard light it was not on all the time. I think that the position was different with the GS-4 and indeed with later diesel locomotives.

Larry, sorry didn't see your last post while writing my last one!

No, the photo is of an O scale pre-production model.  Sunset 3rd Rail sometimes use photos of HO brass models in their O scale catalogs but this not one of them. However, I will check the 3rd Rail FEF-3 I actually have at the weekend because it may be that the model was made with a different housing. From memory it does differ slightly from the photo.

Thanks.  It differs quite a bit if you look at their site and go to their boneyard.  I would post the pic, but I'm short on time.  Check out their link...

http://www.3rdrail.com/found.htm

It loooks a lot different than of the picture you posted.

OK, concerning the type of Mars red light as mounted on UP FEF class locomotives (and on the Milwaukee Road 4-8-4s like #261), are "red only" and operate when the train air brakes go into emergency. This was a common feature on railroads with lots of double track, thus when a train went into emergency, an opposing, oncoming train, was NOT allowed to pass the operating red Mars light until the offending train crew had walked the entire train and verified that the adjacent track was NOT fowled. At that point the Engineer would recover his air AND reset the red Mars light operating switches above the Engineer's cab window, allowing opposing trains to safely pass.

The Engineer can also manually turn on the red Mars for example, when stopped at a station with multiple tracks where passengers may have to cross "live tracks" to board his train.

That is why you virtually NEVER see UP844 with her red Mars light on, except during a brake test gone wrong, which dumps the air on the locomotive! But, you would have to be, at EXACTLY the right place and time to catch THAT.

Now, the SP GS-4s did NOT have a red function in their Mars light. Originally, the SP Mars lights where equipped with one large, i.e. single beam light. In later years SP changed them to the twin bulb lights, for better visibility. The head light and Mars light controls on SP GS and cab forward locomotives, are on the Fireman's side, above his side window. The head light controller is Front "Bright", "Dim", "off", Rear "Dim", and "Bright". The controller has only Front "Bright", off and "Dim", but has a toggle switch for "Run" and a push button for "Inch". Thus the Fireman may stop the Mars light rotating motors ( flat figure 8 pattern), then "Inch" the light beam to shine directly on some object in the distance or a vehicle at a grade crossing.

The Mars company also offered combination "white" and "red" oscillating lights, which mounted in the upper (top) position of EMC/EMD E and F units. Those "dual function" light units allowed the Engineer better visibility, however should an emergency brake application occur, the whole light assembly would rotate 180 degrees and show the "big red light" forward. The Santa Fe diesels had this type of Mars light assembly. This also explains why EMC/EMD E and F units equipped with a Mars light of ANY style, ALWAYS had the light weight headlight in the front nose door!

Hope this helps.

Great stuff, Jack.  Thanks!

Also, there is no way the CB&Q Mars light assembly will work for the UP FEF application. The Burlington Mars lights where twin light assemblies in one housing, having one white lens and one red lens. 

Hot Water, you have just added to the sum of my knowledge; great stuff.

Larry, I checked 3rd Rail's site before I posted the picture I have and the Boneyard photo is not accurate compared to what my 8444 looks like. I can't be sure but it looks retouched to show the lamp lens colors.

It did occur to me that the photo I posted must be of a 2-rail pre-production model, which might not have used the same lighting as the 3-rail models. It's the 3-rail version I have and looking at a video short I have of it running with the Lionel version, the mars light housing is superior.

I'll post a photo comparison sometime on Sunday when I am back at the ranch.

It's off topic but the Lionel FEF-3 is the best smoker in my fleet - a real crowd pleaser!

Thanks, Hancock.  When you have a chance would you please email me?  etterw(at symbol)comcast(dot)net

Thanks again.

"That is why you virtually NEVER see UP844 with her red Mars light on, except during a brake test gone wrong, which dumps the air on the locomotive! But, you would have to be, at EXACTLY the right place and time to catch THAT."

Well you know what Hot Water, I had often wondered about the operational mode of the 844's red Mars light.  As the many times that I've seen it pass through Nebraska I couldn't ever recall it being on red even when it was stopped.  Thanks for the info.  Now I only wonder why the clapper of the bell and the underside of the bell is red?

Everyone have a nice day.

Ken

Larry, you have mail.

Some one had lots of spare time, or one of the volunteers did it!

I have O scale Mars light castings.  Right now they are out of stock.  The pattern was developed from measurements and photos of a Mars light on Nickel Plate 587 stored outdoors at Hammond, Indiana.  I need to have more cast and I will be attending the Indy O Scale Meet where I can leave the pattern with the caster.  It is correct in size and shape.  I think it was 587 but not sure on that.

Harmon.  Would you mind contacting me either here on offline regarding how I can get in touch with you?  My email address is: etterw(at symbol)comcast.net  I am very interested in purchasing one of these. 

Thanks very much!!

While this probably should go on the real trains forum, I thought since we were talking about the real deal here, some might find this interesting.

http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/photo/r250.htm

As a postscript to this thread - especially after looking at what Larry tracked down about the original lights - here is a comparison of the Mars Light treatments on the Lionel 844 and the 3rd Rail version. Not really prototypical because the lamps in each are wired through the boiler front and the housings extend right back to cover the wires. Some nice detail around the 3rd Rail light but neither this nor the Lionel version attempt to represent the oscillation or pattern of the original.

Just saw your post.  Thanks for posting.  One thing that I didn't like on the Lionel version that you have pictured is that they didn't paint the bottom portion of the smoke deflector black (as seen in the catalog).  I had mine painted a couple of years ago.  I'm anxious to start detailing mine even more.

Thanks again for posting the pics.