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Hi All,

I've been thinking about this for awhile and wanted to post somewhat of a master list of products that I have personally seen over the years that have either casting fatigue / zinc pest issues and / or outgassing (paint bubbles) By no means is this a comprehensive list, but I'd like to continue to add to it. Also, just because a product is on this list does not always mean it will have or develop these issues. This list should be used as a general guide for people to ask questions before potential purchases.

Hope this helps. If you have something to add to the list please comment below. If at all possible include specific product numbers. Eventually I'd like to get these nailed down to specific runs and years.

Thanks,

Derek

I'd like to add your responses to the list instead of making people scroll through what could eventually be pages of stories. If you could, please format your initial response as we've formatted the list below. That way I can just copy and paste it into the list. If you'd like to tell stories below that, that's all good, just please help me out with getting info into the list.



Lionel

24570 Santa Fe FT B unit (Casting Failure)

18374 JLC Silver PRR GG-1 (Casting Failure)

28087 Union Pacific Aux Tender (Casting Failure)

38038 Rio Grande Aux Tender (Casting Failure)

Dockside Switchers (conventional) (Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

38039 Clinchfield Aux Tender (Casting Failure)

Union Pacific 25433 18 inch aluminum passenger set (Casting Failure)

Union Pacific 25438 City of Denver 2 pack (Casting Failure)

25616 Union Pacific aluminum 18 inch two car passenger add on set (Casting Failure)

6-11103 Southern PS-4 Locomotive Tender Trucks (Casting Failure)

6-11131 Union Pacific #844 FEF-3 (Casting Failure)

18134 Santa Fe dummy A unit (Casting Failure)

JLC Pennsylvania Tuscan 18354 GG1 (Truck casting failure AND shell Outgassing)

6-38076 C&O Berkshire (Outgassing)

18023 Western Maryland Shay (Outgassing)

18006 Reading T-1 Steam Loco & Tender (Outgassing)

Lionel 11119 Southern 0-8-0 steam locomotive (Outgassing)

18010 Pennsylvania scale Turbine steam locomotive (Outgassing)

51000 The Hiawatha reproduction tinplate set (Outgassing)

CC Niagara 28069. Drivers pitting, loss of paint. (Outgassing)

First Big Boy engine (Circa 1999-2000) (Outgassing)

Weaver

Troop Cars, Kitchen Cars, Hospital Cars (Casting Failure)


K Line
K2749-0379CV New Haven EP-5 (Casting Failure)

K713-1891 Operating Log Dump Car- Catalog 2005 First edition(housing for control w/ K-line remote on bottom of frame expands, becomes brittle,, a breaks)

K712-1891 Operating Coal Dump Car- Catalogs(2004 1st & 2nd Editions)

K2780-4892IC KCC GG-1 power truck side frames (Casting Failure)

K2780-4912IC KCC GG-1 power truck side frames (Casting Failure)

MTH

MTH RK 30-74381 CSX High Cube Boxcar (Trucks - Casting Failure)

MTH RK 30-74429 Norfolk Southern High Cube Boxcar (Trucks - Casting Failure)

Railking 30-4047-0 Caterpillar set (Casting Failure)

20-4071 NYC Madison Passenger Cars (Casting Failure)

30-2717-1 Grand Trunk and Western F-3 A-B-A diesel locomotive set (Casting Failure)

Railking PRR  3768 Torpedo tender shell casting,  PS1 era.  (Casting Failure)

Premier PRR  P5 Boxcab -  Specifically the PS2, 3V version.  (Casting Failure)

20-80007B    F-7 ABA Diesel Set - Norfolk Southern - A Units 4270 & 4271 (Paint outgassing and orange peel)

Protosound 2.0 Pennsylvania RS1  (Casting Failure)

N&W Unshrouded J  (Outgassing)

First run of the Erie Triplex (Outgassing)

First run of the W&ARR Overton cars (Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

3rd Rail

Ambrose Wine 6 dome tank car (Casting Failure)

War Emergency boxcars (Casting Failure)

New York Central P-2 boxcab electric locomotive (Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

Williams
New York Central Alco FA A-A diesel locomotive (Casting Failure)

Scale GG1 Trucks (Casting Failure)

Peter Witt trolley truck side frames  (Casting Failure)

CS106W Norfolk and Western Hudson steam locomotive (Outgassing)

Williams 4949 Pacific Gearbox tower/ axle gear cover(Casting Failure)

Atlas O

6824-2 Norfolk and Western SD-35 diesel locomotive (Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

Pennsylvania FM Erie Built A-B diesel locomotive pair (Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

6892 Washington Terminal Alco RS-1(Couplers Only) (Casting Failure)

Certain runs of steel sided reefers and USRA Hoppers (Casting Failure)

Last edited by Notch 6
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MTH

20-80007B    F-7 ABA Diesel Set - Norfolk Southern - A Units 4270 & 4271 (Paint outgassing and orange peel)

This 2007 Dealer Appreciation Program (DAP) set had 200 production units of the NS Office Car Special (OCS).  Both of my A-units were repainted under warranty by MTH.  My dealer at the time said there were others.  Interestingly the B unit was/is fine.

20-80007B

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Last edited by RidgeRunner

I have the 30-2717-1 Grand Trunk and Western F-3 A-B-A diesel locomotive set, which did indeed have frame casting issues.  I didn't notice the problem until years later, so I ended up buying another set of Railking F-3s to serve as frame donors - made the GTW set mighty expensive.  Might the problem also extend to other similar engines which were produced around the same time (2006)?

Years ago, I had a NIB K-Line circus TOFC where the roof of the trailer warped and cracked.  Sorry, but I don't have the item number, but it was probably produced in the early 1990s.

Are we sure that the internet is big enough to hold the entire list of modern trains with casting issues?

I have a number of Atlas O steel side reefers.    The bolsters have failed on them and on some also the trucks have fallen to many small pieces.     I also have 2-3 Atlas O  USRA hoppers where the underframe and the hopper doors are failing.    They are swelling up and showing cracks.    At some point they will fall apart.

I have lots of other types of Atlas cars and have not noticed any problems with them.

Lionel

Sold as new between 2011 - 2015

6-12073    FasTrack 1-3/8" Straight Track
6-12026    FasTrack 1-3/4" Straight Track
6-12025    FasTrack 4-1/2" Straight Track
6-12024    FasTrack 5" Half Straight Track
6-12014    FasTrack 10" Straight Track
6-12042    FasTrack 30" Straight Track

6-12023    FasTrack O36 Quarter Curve Track
6-12022    FasTrack O36 Half Curve Track
6-12015    FasTrack O36 Full Curve Track

6-12017    FasTrack O36 Manual Switch - Left Hand
6-12018    FasTrack O36 Manual Switch - Right Hand
6-12045    FasTrack O36 Remote Left-Hand Switch
6-12046    FasTrack O36 Remote Right-Hand Switch



Zinc Pest on Lionel O Gauge FasTrack connecting pins of many different lengths of straight and O36 Curves and O36 Switches sold as new (to me) between 2011-2015.  The problem with the pins (center and outer) having zinc pest is that they swell and become very brittle, often easily breaking off inside adjoining rails.

Here is a picture of the differences in appearance between the older pin and it's 2021 replacement.

FT Pin Zinc Pest

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Last edited by SteveH

Adding to the MTH list: Smoke units. The ones I've seen are in late PS1 engines.

Adding to the Williams list: FA side frames.

Adding to the K-Line list: Heavy Weight trucks and coupler assemblies. Also Heavy Hauler tractor trailer vans.

Well known: Atlas O woodside reefers.

All the above are zinc pest  casting failures.

Chris

LVHR

Edit: Per a suggestion below, pictures added.

IMG_5191P3040156Truck issueIMG_0285Weaver Troop car frame 1

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Last edited by lehighline

I have a early MTH PRR RS1 that is showing gassing on the underside fuel tank...I own three of these (all the same all PRR) and this is the only one doing it.

46AAE22C-8C80-46E0-A811-734CDA2CACE29B71C945-3519-4CDE-8024-1A35780F9518  What I find amazing is I own a fair amount of MTH Die-cast freight cars...boxcars reefers hoppers gondolas and cabooses (63 in all) and I have inspected all of them and found no evidence of problems....yet !

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Hey all,

Thanks for the quick additions. I'd like to add these all to the list at the top instead of making people scroll through what could eventually be pages of stories. If you could, please format your initial response as we've formatted the list at the top. That way I can just copy and paste it into the list. If you'd like to tell stories below that, that's all good, just please help me out with getting info into the list.

Thanks,
Derek

@romiller49 posted:

These posts will surely get newcomers to Ogauge trains.

I highly doubt a thread on an O gauge forum about trains that are mostly 10+ years old is going to stop someone from making an entry level decision. This is as much about protecting those of us buying in the secondary market as it is anything else. The Union Pacific 18" Lionel cars for example can be very deceiving as some trucks look fine until inspected with a loop. I've seen more of these fail than I care to admit. Folks might as well know what they're buying at this point.

Agreed Derek, and before this thread goes sideways into the guard rail, this can be a useful list if we just stick to the facts... I know, really hard for some of you, but help Derek out here.

To make the list even better, photo evidence/samples would be great to help people who might not be familiar with the particular piece, zero in on the possible infected areas.

Thanks for starting this Derek.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

To make the list even better, photo evidence/samples would be great to help people who might not be familiar with the particular piece, zero in on the possible infected areas.

For other than the most publicized and well-known cases, I actually think it should be required, along with proof the photo is recent (i.e. include a recent newspaper).


Thanks for starting this Derek.

Yes, a resource like this will be invaluable for future collectors.

lionel 6-25646 SF “Scout” heavyweight  4 pack truck casting failures (truck side frames not usable, completely disintegrated when run), bought new from dealer.

Lionel 6-25651 SF “Scout” heavyweight 2 pack truck casting failure (truck side frames not useable, completely disintegrated when run) , bought new from dealer

Lionel 6-38081 JLC C&O Allegheny, tender water doors- casting failures, running board warping-casting failure, cylinder exhaust piping- casting failure.

Atlas O 3001001 53’ American express reefer, trucking casting failure

Lionel Classics std gauge 400e blue comet engine, frame casting failures , I do not own this one , but I have seen several examples of this issue at York train show.



7EFC835D-5DCE-42DF-965F-BDBBCF90577DD40CB4C6-9768-42C4-B2F0-239AE7FDBF8CC64D9339-D128-4BDD-86D9-1383B4E2D4389E8698D1-D163-47AA-9148-621A179D7DB9






8FCF6903-FC9F-48DD-830D-607B4F706BCB

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Last edited by Hump Yard Mike

Lionel 6-28255 SPSF SD-40T-2 side frames have zinc pest. This probably affects the entire lot, I have seen many examples

6-29115 and 6-25416 Daylight 18” car sets, underbody detail has zinc pest. Hit and miss, of my 7 cars, 2 have crumbling parts

6-21797 Daylight 4-4-2, paint on drivers bubbled. Every example I have ever seen has this flaw

K-line diecast 4 bay hoppers, zinc pest. I had 3 of the Blue Coal hoppers, one of them exploded



The JLC Allegheny in the post above saddens me, I have one of these that hasn’t been out in a few years. Looks like I need to check it. It is one of the nicest locomotives Lionel made.

I’ll try to help Derek out on this one so he doesn’t have to repeat himself a third time. When replying to this thread with additional entries, format the info like he did so he can paste it to his original list above (and not have spend a significant amount of time retyping the information).

Correct:

18374 JLC Silver PRR GG-1 (Casting Failure)

incorrect:

I have a Lionel JLC Series GG1. I think the stock number is 18374. It’s painted silver for the Pennsylvania RR. It’s got zinc rot.

Hey Derek - Hope all’s well

Great topic - I think this is going to be a very helpful / useful thread going forward

If I can add a little to the MPC 2500 series aluminum passenger car concerns - I do believe some of the “painted” cars had issues however I think the Powhatan Arrow N&W cars are / were OK - I think they are anodized aluminum and not painted

Talk to you soon

Joe

@dorfj2 posted:


If I can add a little to the MPC 2500 series aluminum passenger car concerns - I do believe some of the “painted” cars had issues however I think the Powhatan Arrow N&W cars are / were OK - I think they are anodized aluminum and not painted

Talk to you soon

Joe

The Powhatan Arrows are painted anodized aluminum cars. I have four of the MPC painted aluminum sets, and haven't noticed a problem with any of them.

As at least one other person has reported, I've had couplers crumble on an older Atlas O RS1 (CNW version). Also truck/couplers on several Atlas O Frontrunners. And also on some trucks on Lionel scale heavyweight passenger cars (Southern Crescent no. 25654).

@RickO posted:

Once this list is compiled I'm fearful we'll find that this issue is across the entire line.

It's a matter of who has the misfortune of buying a" hidden"  bad/defective casting.

Do the other scales have regular issues with crumbling trains as well?

Yep - I picked up a small lot of N scale items and got an InterMountain SD45 that had zinc pest do a number on its frame - I was put on a waiting list for over a year, and they eventually ran a new batch of models and Intermountain kindly sent me a replacement chassis.

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