MPC Era Lionel Trains?

Nice video, David!

Did you disconnect the Sound of Steam?

@turtle7 posted:

. . . there were some interesting variations among, for example, the 9200 series boxcars and others. So, IMHO, they were a nice follow-up of the holy-grail and bridge into the more modern Lionel. 

I met a dealer at the Billy Budd who specializes in MPC variations.  Quite fascinating the stuff he would bring to sell.  Last York one of his customers brought a 3 ring binder of professional photos of his MPC variations.   Some really gorgeous cars.

Don W.

The sound of steam shorted when the foam mounting failed and it was replaced with a modern air whistle that has a can motor. It has a nice air whistle sound without any motor sounds.

David

@Grampstrains posted: 

did you forget the move to Mexico in 1983?

That was pretty brief, thank goodness. Disasterous move, and within two years Lionel moved back to a new 100,000 sq. ft. plant in Chesterfield, Michigan.

Enjoyed that little video, David. Never seen all those Milwaukee cars running together like that - very cool.

EricF wrote: The "underpowered" reputation came primarily from the starter train set small steamers.

David Nissen wrote: "I didn't think that the small engine that came with the set could pull all of the cars, but it pulls them quite well."

Years ago I bought a Kickapoo Dockside engine at a train show. Before I made any of my standard alterations, that little engine pulled 25 cars on my layout. Granted they were Fast Angle wheeled cars, but still impressive. Matter of fact, I have not had even one MPC starter set steam engine that did pull beyond my expectations. And I've had quite a few.

I also have one of the same engines that David Nissen has. That loco has never disappointed me, and if you use the new Premium Lionel smoke fluid, it smokes pretty good too! Better yet, after almost going on 50 years in age, it still works good as new.

I find it's mostly the top line product postwar fans that find the most fault with MPC trains. "Well, the old trains were made with metal and these new ones are plastic." I can't count how many times I've heard that one. Everything today is made with more plastic. It's not so much the plastic, but the quality and durability OF the plastic. I have MPC cars where the knuckles on the plastic couplers still spring open when triggered. And I have cars made during the Kughn era of Lionel where they do not. Same design, so it has to be a change in the plastic itself.

People forget there were some real low cost postwar made starter set engines that could barely pull the cars that came with the original train set. And some of those postwar steamers also had plastic shells. Yes, even the original Lionel Corp. was looking for ways to save money and lower costs.

I've read far, far more postings about top line, high end Lionel and MTH locomotives failing to run (DOA) right out of the box, than I have about MPC trains. If a MTH locomotive won't run out of the box, then it can't pull it's own shadow either, as one MPC resident critic here on this forum always has to write about MPC made trains.

I've always been a fan of most of the MPC/Fundimensions smaller steam locomotives. I collected a lot of these back in the 1970's and recently unpacked them after a 40+ year snooze. These locomotives were a big improvement over their PW counterparts and as several other members noted that they are excellent and reliable pullers. I also am a huge fan of the rolling stock of that period. I remember when the 9200 series boxcars followed by the 9700 and 9400 series all came out in all those bright and prototypical colors. The billboard reefers,covered hoppers and single/three dome tank cars were also big favorites. These could be found often at  and TCA LCCA train shows in the early-mid 70's for $5-7 dollars a car. Below are some recently found pix of my childhood layout circa 1974-75. A mixture of postwar and MPC/Fundimensions!

@aussteve posted:

I met a dealer at the Billy Budd who specializes in MPC variations.  Quite fascinating the stuff he would bring to sell.  Last York one of his customers brought a 3 ring binder of professional photos of his MPC variations.   Some really gorgeous cars.

I have a hunch that would have been me...

TRW

@aussteve posted:

I met a dealer at the Billy Budd who specializes in MPC variations.  Quite fascinating the stuff he would bring to sell.  Last York one of his customers brought a 3 ring binder of professional photos of his MPC variations.   Some really gorgeous cars.

Wow. I read about that guy back in college - Hermann Melville! 

@aussteve posted:

I met a dealer at the Billy Budd who specializes in MPC variations.  Quite fascinating the stuff he would bring to sell.  Last York one of his customers brought a 3 ring binder of professional photos of his MPC variations.   Some really gorgeous cars.

Does anyone remember the name of the dealer who I mentioned specializes in MPC variations and what hall he was in October 2019?

I am surprised MPC did not do a FA -FB pulling 2400 type passenger cars in blue and yellow for VIA.  I would have gotten that!

Lionel did make a D&H FA-FB.  The D&H ran PA's and their own passenger cars on an early version of Amtrak's GCT-Albany-Montreal.  That would have been great to see.

She was going so fast the top flew off! 

I was trying to diagnose a tricky smoke unit but I though the picture of just a frame pulling a train was too funny not to share. 

I always enjoy operating my SD18's. By no means a scale locomotive; I just like the way they look. These are the first locomotives i bought with my own money. Difficult to believe they are 42 years old but still going strong. 

Got the Milw SD18.  Not scale.  But got that, "It will pull everything in the yard look."

While we're talking about SD18s, the UP U36C set is one of my favorite sets.  Perhaps too many silver-colored cars but I always liked the look of the entire consist.

I'm not sure if the SD18s and the U36Cs share the same 6-wheel trucks, but they are very similar and, importantly, represented new a tooling investment for Lionel at that time.

Steven J. Serenska

The SD and U36C use the same EMD type truck.  The real SP locomotives were 4 U25B rebuilt with Sultzer (sp?) prime movers.  SP tried 4, hoping to rebuild the rest.  Did not work out.  Hung around the Eugene OR enginehouse around 1985.

One U25B was upgraded by the SP, and was one of the Bicent units, and classed U25BE.  Was the upgrade too expensive, or did not work.

The Lionels were "close" only because they used a GE body, and livery.  Body was for the super short U36B, and using the trucks mentioned above.

The Santa Fe didn't have H24-66 Train Master locomotives, but I still enjoy my MPC Santa Fe 6-8157 from 1981.

Built like a brick just like the postwar specimens. While I might have the Legacy H16-44's that does not stop this trusty Pullmor powered brute from getting a workout pulling a long freight. No shelf queen here.

@Dominic Mazoch posted:

I am surprised MPC did not do a FA -FB pulling 2400 type passenger cars in blue and yellow for VIA.  I would have gotten that!

Lionel did make a D&H FA-FB.  The D&H ran PA's and their own passenger cars on an early version of Amtrak's GCT-Albany-Montreal.  That would have been great to see.

I have those D&H FA's -- already done up with some detail paintwork to more closely match the PA's.  I always had the same idea -- once I get a new layout set up, one of my projects is to find some of the short streamlined coaches and paint them to match.

I figured I'd resurrect this thread again to share something I was talking about last time I did.

I love the boxes Lionel used during this period. Nice photos. Informative blurbs about the locomotive or entire consist. They just really pop.

RamblerDon, I agree.  These are a few that I have, and always enjoyed them growing up.  They are showing their age but still bring back great memories. 

Plenty of fun with those babies. The only drawback was lack of whistle or horn on the earlier models. O/w, great motive power. Still have a few.

Dave-lack of sound may be a blessing.

I've recently started picking up old MPC sets and engines/rolling stock again. Amazing the prices you can find them at these days. As others have said, the mpc stuff is just fun. Most of it is built pretty well and its colorful. As I design my new layout in the new house,  I see a good amount of MPC being used on it in the future.

RamblerDon:  LOVE your frame pulling locomotive!  Back to the Future Returns!!!

@Christopher2035 posted:

I've recently started picking up old MPC sets and engines/rolling stock again. Amazing the prices you can find them at these days. As others have said, the mpc stuff is just fun. Most of it is built pretty well and its colorful. As I design my new layout in the new house,  I see a good amount of MPC being used on it in the future.

I'm currently rebuilding my layout into a MPC based one. I've also decided to stop calling myself a prewar guy. I'm going with what I own the most of. Haha

One of my all-time favorite threads here. Remember this one well!

Time to go get out some of my colorful MPC stuff and post pics.

Hopefully this won't come across as annoying but please check out my YouTube channel if you want see plenty of MPC action.

Last month was Famous American Rail Roads month and this month I have some boxed sets I go over.(Both of those videos release this weekend) Both of them are rare releases from the early years. I showed a few shots in the recent acquisitions thread.

I am a fan of MPC Era trains as well. My favorite ones are the FARR sets and the colorful passenger sets. Here are two videos of mine on the UP FARR set and the Chessie steam special set.

My own personal experience from growing up in the MPC era:

Some of the high-end MPC stuff was nice, yeah, but scarce and really expensive.  I do not recall seeing any N&W Js, FARR, NYC 20th Century Limited, etc. in my local hobby stores in Lexington, KY.  In magazines all the good stuff was really expensive.

My first train set was the New Englander, for Christmas 1980.  It is a fairly nice starter set, and I still have it.  It started my love of Lionel.  But no whistle and the fatal flaw:  DC power!  Weak transformer and engine incompatible with all postwar trains, and the "good stuff" from the MPC era.  No real opportunity to expand that set.

Second set several years later was the Commando Assault Train.  First set I bought with my own money, what a mistake.  The DC switcher engine broke 15 minutes after I started running it.  Plastic wheels, plastic couplers, cheap, cheap, cheap.  I think it was made in Mexico.  I remember talking to my Dad about Lionel quality going down hill.

I remember buying a Burlington covered hopper with my own money and it was fairly nice but expensive for a 12 year old.  The paint and lettering were nice, but I think it still had plastic trucks.   The highest quality piece I bought from that era was the remake of the operating sawmill- still works quite well to this day.

Maybe a year after I got my New Englander we got my Dad's trains from my grandparents' house- which hadn't been run in 20 years.  1521WS 027 set from 1954.  Holy cow, the quality blew me away!  1033 transformer was a beast compared to what I was familiar with, all the cars had metal bases, trucks, and couplers, operating barrel car, the 2065 had a whistle and was incredibly well built.  And that was a basic 027 set.

So, from my perspective, the lowly 027 PW trains were the equal of the best MPC trains, quality-wise, while the lowly 027 MPC trains had definitely slipped in quality and in features.  There were some bad ideas- DC power, plastic wheels, less features.  IMO, if you wanted quality and features in the MPC era, you had to spend a lot of money- a lot more than kids had.  It was harder to be a Lionel-trains-loving kid in the '80s. 

Something else I am very fond of are the low end sets. They may have been "cheap" but they were still really cool. Especially the sets like the Laser train or the Allegheny. Here are some more videos of mine. They still had lots of play value and looked really good.

Not to kick the hornet's nest but comparing starter sets to high end sets is like apples and oranges. I've heard the same arguments about modern Lionel starter sets also. I've heard nasty comments about Scout Sets from the postwar. In books I've read the low end prewar sets even got their fair share of ire from Lionel fans.

Starter sets and high end Lionel share the Lionel name and that is about it. A starter set is already around $300 and that is already a stretch for most families. I understand Lionel has to cut corners. No one is going to buy a young child a thousand dollar steamer to try out to see if they like trains.

You could get a good high end starter set via mail order for under $100 easy before about 1976.  Then Lionel started to het a little greedy, going after the PW crowd...

For some who do not know, was the pre internet of buying things.  Fill out a letter for what you want, add money order, mail ot to the company you ordered from.  They get order.  Cash mo.  Send via UPS or USPS.  Mid 70's UPS could ship nation wide.

When you factor inflation... that $100 isn't buying today what it did then.

There is something fascinating about MPC to me. At one time I had all the 9700 series boxcars. I still have all the 9800 series alcohol cars. I currently have been collecting the Conrail fallen flag GP9s. I still need to find the Conrail, PC and EL units. The search is part of the fun.

Someday when I come across a Blue Comet set for a price I can't pass up, I would like to add that to the collection for display purposes.

A Blue Comet is on my good price short list also!

Don,

Enjoy your videos on youtube. Beings I also have many MPC items like the F3's and the steam engines. Got into the scale 3 rail at one time but became not happy with the pricing and quality control so back to where I started.

Having allot of fun just running trains now.

Dave

@EricF posted:

I have those D&H FA's -- already done up with some detail paintwork to more closely match the PA's.  I always had the same idea -- once I get a new layout set up, one of my projects is to find some of the short streamlined coaches and paint them to match.

And because oof the D&H, PA's did run on Amtrak.

MPC kept the flame burning till the hobby took off like wildfire as those postwar kids came into the age range to rediscover their trains and had disposable income to buy more.  Things had swung way away from the plastic early stuff to semi scale Hudsons and GG1's toward the end when it became LTI, then leading up to the scale engines like the Southern Mikado, DRGW PA diesels and the 1-700e NYC Hudson in 1990.   A owe a much bigger thank to MPC for keeping things alive and improving as the market improved.  AD

@Don Winslow posted:

Dave-lack of sound may be a blessing.

Lack of sound? Are you kidding me.  Old trainheads put away remotes and scale stuff during the holiday season.  This time of year nothing beats pw and mpc era trains, the sound of air whistles , bike horns and loud growling pulmors racing around, flipping and sparking guided only by pumping the handles of a ZW.   And nothing says Christmas is close by better then that sweet smell of ozone.

I recently got a set of the Canadian Pacific F-3s from 1973. Only one motor but the paint is spectacular. Really pleased.