MTH & GGD 20th Century Limited (1938) Color Matching?

I don’t know of anyone that has this combination yet. The new MTH Dreyfuss has literally just hit the shelves, ….but I can tell you from my research & development that MTH really hit the nail on the head with the colors. That being said, I do know Scott’s cars are supposed to be extremely close. If we look at the history of the real train set, they were not painted side by side, the cars were painted at one place, and the locomotives at another. Although the black & white photos/films depicts this perfect matching train set, more than likely the engine vs. the cars were slightly off, ……As long as it’s not hideously off, I’d be tickled,……the major thing is, MTH got the stripes right, the coloring is danger close, and Scott’s cars follow suit,..…

Pat

Hi Eric - there were several of the new MTH dreyfuss hudsons on sale at the York show.  In my opinion they look a little on the darker side compared to previously releases.

I am wondering what the right color truly is for the 1938 century versus the 1940 century.  I have an MTH PS3 1940 century set, and it looks like what I would expect.  I don't have a 1938 set from any manufacturer but from the photos and videos I've seen of the GGD set it appears the cars are slighly lighter for the 1938 versus the 1940. 

I know it does not directly answer your question Eric but hope my 2 cents helped a little.

@M J Breen posted:

Hi Eric - there were several of the new MTH dreyfuss hudsons on sale at the York show.  In my opinion they look a little on the darker side compared to previously releases.

I am wondering what the right color truly is for the 1938 century versus the 1940 century.  I have an MTH PS3 1940 century set, and it looks like what I would expect.  I don't have a 1938 set from any manufacturer but from the photos and videos I've seen of the GGD set it appears the cars are slighly lighter for the 1938 versus the 1940.

I know it does not directly answer your question Eric but hope my 2 cents helped a little.

The 38 vs. the 40 is the same color EXCEPT for the stripes. They simplified the stripes in 40 pretty much for costs, and ease of maintenance. There is no change for the main body colors until 48 when they basically flipped the colors.

Pat

I believe Phil from JR Junction has the cars and of course the engines. I have the 1940 cars, same grays as the 1938 cars plus a MTH Dreyfuss from around 2016. The engine is slightly darker than the GGD cars but close. I have pics but taken at different times so not definitive.

Pete

Thanks all, I may just roll the dice and do it while I can still get the engine.  I can always pick up a 3rd rail engine at a future date and upgrade it to PS3, like I did with my 3rd rail ESE Hudson.

As stated above these taken at different times.

MTH Dreyfuss from 2016

3rd Rail Dreyfuss. Matches the cars perfectly.

Pete

Has anyone done a brief review of the MTH recent locomotive release with a video?

@Norton posted:

As stated above these taken at different times.

MTH Dreyfuss from 2016

3rd Rail Dreyfuss. Matches the cars perfectly.

Pete

Wow,  big difference!  The new MTH one looks pretty much like the 2016 release above.  I may just wait for a 3rd rail version to show up for sale.

Pete, in your examples I think I like the color of the 3Rd Rail model better

I believe the pinnacle of the CENTURY’s color lies on the Lionel Smithsonian models. Story has it, Koh’s & Co. who built the Lionel Smithsonian did extensive research through DuPont’s archives to achieve the color. Fast forward to now, and I asked my DuPont rep to do the same, ….he came up with a formula based on the paint codes from the Central proper,……Below is the paint we came up with next to a Smithsonian shell for comparison. …..but, to each his own, ….the myriad of photographs that have been taken with every conceivable weather condition, sunlight, timing, etc, leaves it up to the imagination for what shade suits an individual’s taste…..

Pat

Thank you Norton and HarmonYards.  We have spent a considerable amount of time and effort researching the prototype verses O scale models throughout the years.

Side-by-side comparison left to right:

(2024 release) Premier by MTH Electric Trains

Williams Crown Edition

Lionel Smithsonian 2-rail model

The MTH is slightly glossier than the Williams and Lionel, otherwise to my and other people’s eyes, the shades of gray are absolutely identical between the three models pictured here.

Now the question about Golden Gate Depot cars…. As was said above, the previously made GGD cars are a close match to these models but not 100% exact.  We are told that the upcoming release 1938 and 1940 GGD release 21” passenger cars will match the previous release if not exactly but very close.  My opinion is they are “close enough” for a win for modelers that prefer a prototypical Twentieth Century Limited set.  The recent MTH TCL Dreyfuss will look fine with the GGD passenger cars although that is our opinion.  That being said, the upcoming release of 18” passenger cars from Atlas O will match the recent MTH Premier Dreyfuss too.

@JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:

Thank you Norton and HarmonYards.  We have spent a considerable amount of time and effort researching the prototype verses O scale models throughout the years.

Side-by-side comparison left to right:

(2024 release) Premier by MTH Electric Trains

Williams Crown Edition

Lionel Smithsonian 2-rail model

The MTH is slightly glossier than the Williams and Lionel, otherwise to my and other people’s eyes, the shades of gray are absolutely identical between the three models pictured here.

Now the question about Golden Gate Depot cars…. As was said above, the previously made GGD cars are a close match to these models but not 100% exact.  We are told that the upcoming release 1938 and 1940 GGD release 21” passenger cars will match the previous release if not exactly but very close.  My opinion is they are “close enough” for a win for modelers that prefer a prototypical Twentieth Century Limited set.  The recent MTH TCL Dreyfuss will look fine with the GGD passenger cars although that is our opinion.  That being said, the upcoming release of 18” passenger cars from Atlas O will match the recent MTH Premier Dreyfuss too.

Thank you for the side by side comparison and additional info!  It's especially good to know that the upcoming GGD release will match the previous one.  If I can secure the GGD cars, I may be purchasing your Dreyfuss from you today!

"Pete, in your examples I think I like the color of the 3Rd Rail model better"

The 3rd Rail, which I hadn't seen before, is light gray, quite similar to the recent Lionel Dreyfuss models.  The Lionel is perhaps even lighter gray, but closer to the 3rd Rail than to the much darker MTH or Smithsonian, to my eye.  They all look pretty good to me .

As indicated above, there has been a lot of research and discussion on authentic paint color for the Dreyfuss Hudson. I can find quite a volume of postings on the Forum. What if one wants to re-paint their O-scale Dreyfuss for as exact a color match as possible to the prototype? Is there a clear consensus on what paint a hobbyist should use and how to achieve the right color? Is it a custom mix job?

Photo courtesy of Jr Junction Train & Hobby

Although the Smithsonian model has long been considered one of the best, am curious as to the difference between it and the Williams (same mfg) in the piping detail on this new MTH model? Can you post a few comments and more photos of the MTH Dreyfus please?  Or perhaps start a fresh thread with more info on the new one? Seems we hashed and rehashed the Lionel model extensively awhile back, how about a good thorough examination of Mike's. She certainly looks good from what we see here!  :-)

This is the grey difference for MTH 1940 Dreyfuss and the GGD 1940 consist. I only run sets A+B because my Hudson cant pull all cars on my layout without the head end chasing the tail end closely

Perhaps you could repaint the Hudson to be identical to the passenger cars.

Honestly it's more work than it is unless you get the matching engine with the matching cars (manufacturer wise) there's always going to be differences.