MTH Explorer question and a few comments

I had one a year ago and sold it when upgrading to the full scale wifi.  I am quite sure I used a standard MTH brick from a Z-1000.  

Can you shoot me an email (in profile)?  I think I've lost your e-mail address.

Thanks,

George

Having read your response to your purchase, I went on line and listened to Eric's Trains give a rather detailed report on the Explorer. I would recommend that you do that.  I think it answers all your questions and more.  For me personally listening to someone explain something as opposed to reading instructions always makes a lot more sense.

The first thing that seems obvious is that unless you have a PS2 or 3 engine you wasted your money.  Second thing that seems obvious is that unless you have your train already running around the track with a transformer your do not need the Explorer anyway because it is designed to replace the control system you are currently using.

It seems that it can be used with any transformer you are currently using, maybe requiring an adapter.

Anyway, listen to Eric and all your questions will be answered.

All you need is a barrel plug adapter (5.5mm x 2.1mm) center terminal is hot. Wire it to any transformer.

Steve

"All you need is a barrel plug adapter (5.5mm x 2.1mm) center terminal is hot. Wire it to any transformer."

Thanks very much.  Couldn't find this information anywhere in the packaging or on-line.

Rescued Trains posted:

All you need is a barrel plug adapter (5.5mm x 2.1mm) center terminal is hot. Wire it to any transformer.

Steve

Because the wire gauge is too small on the prewired adapters, I found these and use one of them.
Here's the ebay link I got them from. (US seller)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pa...?hash=item233af22aa8

As for power sources, I use an old Lionel RW transformer. I put an inline 5A fuse between the transformer and the Explorer. This is because the RW, or any transformer capable of a decent output can generate more than 5 amps with a short. Using the B terminal on the RW, I just turn the throttle all the way up, then plug in either the transformer to an outlet or the barrel adapter to the explorer. The reason for this is the explorer doesn't like ramping the voltage up  after power is applied. I had that lock the explorer up a couple of times. so now I make sure the voltage is set before applying power.

I use the B terminal because that gives me 15.7 volts max (measured). The A terminal can exceed the input voltage requirements of the  Explorer, so I'd have to come up with a way to make sure the  throttle couldn't get pushed past the  desired voltage. Many lionel transformers have two variable outputs you can pick between (1033, 1044, RW, LW, TW, KW, ZW). Any output between 16 and 18 volts works well. If it can go higher like on my old Z, where it can hit 25 V, you need to find a way to limit the movement of the  knob  / lever.

I have run 2 locomotives with no problems using the RW.

In line glass fuse holders are cheap. Picture attached. The reason for fusing these, is old lionel documents will tell you the circuit breaker on the transformer is there to protect the transformer, NOT the equipment attached to it.

And last, because I'm a paranoid kind of guy, I also have a TVS voltage limiting diode across the  output of the explorer and the output of the transformer. Between the fuses and diodes, it's cheap insurance for both the explorer and your PS equipped locomotives.

One last note, anyone telling you these old transformers don't have a clean output has no idea what they are talking about. I put an O'scope on the outputs and get a beautifully clean since wave. The transformer you need to stay away from is the CW-80. It creates a stepped AC wave that is clipped on higher outputs and has been known to cause problems with digital equipment. Saw a picture from an 0'scope on the output of one of these. It was ugly.

Thanks for all the suggestions and insights.  I'm going to give this item a try as it's only $15 bucks.  90 watts at 15 volts.  When I get around to trying it out, will report back.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I agree the manual from the MTH website is weak on explaining the setup of the unit. The 27 page manual is mostly about the network setup and the use of the app.

Here is a thread from 2017-2018 that I have saved and reference from time to time. It includes some responses from MTHRD. You may already have it saved since you posted on it. Bit here is a link just incase.

DCS EXPLORER

You don't mention( or I missed it) whether you are using the explorer for part of a layout or all of a layout. The reason I bring this up is that, while browsing the above referenced thread i notices a posting you write on 11/3/2017. You stated that you own some TMCC and Legacy engine. My understanding is TMCC and Legacy engines require AC  power.

The power supply you referenced above is DC. If you plan on running TMCC & Leagacy engine on other loop, please disregard.

Mark W.

.

About 2 years ago when the Explorer first came out some of us reported a problem when using other than MTH power supplies.  Things may have changed since then, but the advice from MTH RD was the power supply needed to be pure sine wave AC or clean filtered DC.  The problem was the Explorer's fuse was blowing when a derailment occurred instead of having the unit shut down.  In my case it was thought to be caused by changing the pure sine wave form of a Z1000 brick to a "shark fin" sine wave when I tried to reduce the voltage by putting a MTH Controller between the brick and the Explorer.  The advice given was unless the Explorer was used with a transformer that had the same type of output as those made by MTH you would likely have to replace the external fuse when shorts occurred.  Since some of Lionel's transformers do not output pure sine AC, they may cause a similar problem.  At the time, one of the contributors had same problem with a Lionel 3 amp supply.  As long as I powered the Explorer directly with a MTH brick, I never blew a fuse.

Landsteiner posted:

...

As you can tell, my comments are along the lines of "what were they thinking by not supplying an inexpensive wall-wart type power supply?"  Most wall-warts don't supply the 6 amps the Explorer can use.  I assume the MTH sets include a wall-wart, so MTH must have one available.  I could go on-line and see if it's available for separate sale, and will do if no one knows.  Why not specify the MTH power supply device to purchasers of the (incomplete and not ready for use) Explorer? 

This sort of user-unfriendliness is going to frustrate non-electronically knowledgeable new hobbyists, and annoy those who find they need to buy another device to make the thing work. And they recommend a device almost as expensive as the Explorer itself.  Not kind.  Adds to my existing puzzlement as to why MTH would make a device that only works with a smart device (which I have) and not with the option of a simple dedicated remote as well.  The superiority of the LionChief design and approach seems even clearer to me after this little bump in the road. 

Needless complexity and inconvenience don't enhance the user experience.  And please don't defend them by saying everyone has some 6A power supplies of the correct polarity in their output/cable/plug,  and everyone has a smart device.  Don't shoot the messenger, please .  MTH should rethink their approach and learn from a user's experience with their product. At the very least, include more information in the instructions and suggest something other than a $100 device as a power supply.

 

Would a $10 supply like this work? Or would the 12 volt output be insufficient despite the 6 Amps?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Superpo...ulator/dp/B01CYIFOCE

Interestingly enough, I had the same situation arise in the shop on Thursday.  A customer wanted to run 1 PS 2.0 locomotive and the DCS Explorer was the right solution. 

Unfortunately, trying to determine what power supply to use is cryptic, at best.  After a frantic search inside the box and on-line, I found the answer on the outside of the box.

I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, but it's not.  When it comes to documentation, it's easy to conclude that MTH thinks "less is more".  This absence of useful documentation is true for DCS in general (or Barry's book would not have been necessary).  It's also true of most of their lighted accessories and a number of signals.  Dave Hikel has provided excellent documentation to make their signals work with relays.  Some of their accessories don't discuss voltage requirements at all.  

Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous.  If you make a product, you owe it to the purchaser to tell them how to use / install it.

George

All you need to know regarding the basics of DCS Explorer is really right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...aJCwWBmek&t=629s

The host, Eric Siegel, is OGR's Product Reviewer, and is certainly known to many on the forum.

Allan Miller posted:

All you need to know is really right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...aJCwWBmek&t=629s

I think you're missing the point, Allan.  Somebody at MTH needs to actually document their products appropriately.  They'd save us and themselves time, aggravation, and money.

George

I started powering the Explorer with a Lionel CW-80 transformer and was blowing fuses on the Explorer on a regular basis.  My engines were never damaged. I just replaced the fuses in the Explorer which was cheap and easy.

Based on feedback from MTH, I switched to the MTH Z -1000 brick and I haven’t blown a fuse since then which has been over a year. 

Action Jaxon posted:

I started powering the Explorer with a Lionel CW-80 transformer and was blowing fuses on the Explorer on a regular basis.  My engines were never damaged. I just replaced the fuses in the Explorer which was cheap and easy.

Based on feedback from MTH, I switched to the MTH Z -1000 brick and I haven’t blown a fuse since then which has been over a year. 

The CW80 produces an extremely strange sine wave (at least the early ones do) which would causes the fuse to blow before the internal overload protection could cut the power. 

The polarity of the input on the Explorer doesn't matter. If it can run on AC, the DC polarity won't hurt anything either way it's wired. I reused an old laptop power supply 19 volts DC @ 6 amps. Just make sure it has the proper 5.5mm x 2.1mm barrel connector. I have run an engine via the Explorer using a power supply as small as 12 volts @ 1 amp and it ran fine, you just won't break any speed records nor would I run with smoke.

I'm glad my explorer didn't come with a power pack, why do I need more of that clutter in my parts drawer.

Allan Miller posted:

All you need to know regarding the basics of DCS Explorer is really right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...aJCwWBmek&t=629s

The host, Eric Siegel, is OGR's Product Reviewer, and is certainly known to many on the forum.

He only used his MTH Z500 power supply. Nowhere did he address using an alternate power supply with the system.  It was a good video though.