My Texas and Pacific Sunshine Special

When we run roads other than NYC, PRR, UP, or ATSF, we have to do what we have to do.

What you did here is outstanding!

Thanks - Fort Worth was the admin HQ of the Texas and Pacific Railroad; although I am too “young” to have seen steam in revenue service here I have a great interest in our own home Railroad. 

In my world, T&P, Mopac, Wabash, Frisco and C&A are the primaries....with Santa Fe having running rights.

Griff, Nice Train. I intend to do a similar train. I currently have a MP heavy Mikado for a locomotive. What cat. no. is the T&P express refer?  I don't believe that I have seen the Atlas express refer in the T&P livery.  I have several in MP livery.  Regards, Pat B.

Thanks, guys! My uncle Henry Murphey had Grammer-Murphey Department Store in Midland, Texas.  My mom got big discounts there and I often rode the T&P with her in a roomette which by the way the T&P ones were about like the Amtrak Bedrooms today. I have Many happy memories of blue lights in the yards flashing by and the Doppler song of the crossings .

The item number of my express box is 3001023-3. Yesterday I went through a box of memorabilia from my parents and found a great treasure, a T&P timetable.

Griff, 

If you care to search for a needle in a haystack -during the Summers of 1939-41 the T&P had three 10-1-1 Pullman sleeping cars.  One would look fine in your train.

John in Lansing, ILL

Thanks John! Thanks for the baggage car! Do you know if GGD actually made any more T&P heavyweights besides that baggage?

Check out Walthers:  in O gauge they built the Sunshine Special cars for T&P exhibit at the State Fair and used those patterns to offer the cars to the public not lettered or painted.

Very nice, enjoy it!

Tom, when was that? I could be wrong but I think those Walthers O scale kits are no longer made.

BTW... random Ft. Worth memory... As a boy I remember Tolson had a T&P O gauge display train “not for sale.” I think it was an All Nation 2 Rail Pacific and several Lionel Madison cars. Later as the store was closing I asked him about it as it had disappeared and he denied he’d ever had it. 

Grif, I don't keep up with O scale  so it could be right that they are no longer made.  But, you could ask Walthers to advise you if they have any O scale passenger car kits and if they do it could be possible.

Thanks again Tom! I will do that. I had the catalog as a boy and I remember the extensive inventory of kits and that they had T&P. With modern techniques one might be able to get one of those tin and wood kits to look good enough to match the plastic ready made stuff of today.

I have held 3 of them in my hands and repainted two of them that are in the Grace Hotel collection in Abilene.  They were good looking cars but, remember the rivets are punched,

Yes I have looked into some of those kits at the SW O scale meet. Nice of you to tart up those old models for that collection.

Griff, super nice looking passenger train, and I like the Sunshine Special StationSounds Observation dining car. I like heavyweight passenger cars. Wow. Your floor layout is very nice, the lighted buildings and your trackwork super neat. I like the Steamer pulling the set, very nice, thanks for posting these pictures. 

While we are dealing with T&P - Here is a nice long Texas Train a little fanciful running a couple of cars not correct for the 2-10-4 but very Texan. Two Sunoco tank cars at the rear as a homage to Lionel! 

I was videographer grandson was the hogger needs work in his whistling ...

Griff Murphey posted:

While we are dealing with T&P - Here is a nice long Texas Train a little fanciful running a couple of cars not correct for the 2-10-4 but very Texan. Two Sunoco tank cars at the rear as a homage to Lionel! 

I was videographer grandson was the hogger needs work in his whistling ...

Who made the T&P caboose (and cat. #)?Thanks

trainbub

Griff Murphey posted:

As a “minor road” it has been hard to assemble a steam era T&P passenger train. I did buy four of the new Lionel Sunshine Special cars plus thanks to Rattler 21 I have the Golden Gate Depot T&P baggage. Motive power is the inaccurate coal fired never-was Mike by Lionel.., oh well WW-2 war emergency conditions, they had to make do... I filled in the train with generic MTH Pullmans and that’s an Atlas T&P Express box up front. 

The rpo is up front behind the baggage my photos are slightly out of order.

Really nice consist. Tough to put together when no one hardly ever manufactures T&P or MP. The “generic” Pullmans are a nice addition. 
Trainbub

Mine is the (IMO) more scale looking steel caboose MTH 20-91103. The Railking is kind of a takeoff of the old Lionel NYC type.

Griff Murphey posted:

Thanks again Tom! I will do that. I had the catalog as a boy and I remember the extensive inventory of kits and that they had T&P. With modern techniques one might be able to get one of those tin and wood kits to look good enough to match the plastic ready made stuff of today.

I was a little kid during the big party 1776 to 1976.T&P 2-10-4  came through my state N.C.Big locomotive wished I could have seen her.

seaboardm2 posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

Thanks again Tom! I will do that. I had the catalog as a boy and I remember the extensive inventory of kits and that they had T&P. With modern techniques one might be able to get one of those tin and wood kits to look good enough to match the plastic ready made stuff of today.

I was a little kid during the big party 1776 to 1976.T&P 2-10-4  came through my state N.C.Big locomotive wished I could have seen her.

Cool looking passenger train btw.

Griff Murphey posted:

Mine is the (IMO) more scale looking steel caboose MTH 20-91103. The Railking is kind of a takeoff of the old Lionel NYC type.

The Premier model is Much nice than the RailKing model. There was also a nice MP Premier model around this time. I missed them all - and if I’m not mistaken none have been reissued since. Nothing for 27 years or so. ☹️  I’ve since run across RK model and passed. It sits WAY to high - lots of air between trucks and body. So the 2Premier models have become a Quest to complete a T&P or MP consist. NO CABOOSE. 😑. I’ve pleaded with manufactures and only get “crickets”. 
Trainbub

TrainBub posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

Mine is the (IMO) more scale looking steel caboose MTH 20-91103. The Railking is kind of a takeoff of the old Lionel NYC type.

The Premier model is Much nice than the RailKing model. There was also a nice MP Premier model around this time. I missed them all - and if I’m not mistaken none have been reissued since. Nothing for 27 years or so. ☹️  I’ve since run across RK model and passed. It sits WAY to high - lots of air between trucks and body. So the 2Premier models have become a Quest to complete a T&P or MP consist. NO CABOOSE. 😑. I’ve pleaded with manufactures and only get “crickets”. 
Trainbub

Oops !!! Fat fingers.
17 years. Not 27 !!!

Griff Murphey posted:

The item number of my express box is 3001023-3.

Griff,  I appreciate the cat. no. I am pursuing one or two as a result. Thanks, Pat B.

I was in the Navy when the American Freedom Train came through Fort Worth but had fortuitously come home from Camp Pendleton to get engaged and my future wife and I saw the 610 in action.

This thread proves there is substantial interest in Texas and Pacific. One would think the market is so saturated with NYC, PRR, C&O, ATSF etc. they’d look at doing more for us. When they do make it it seems they sell all they make easily.

TrainBub posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

Mine is the (IMO) more scale looking steel caboose MTH 20-91103. The Railking is kind of a takeoff of the old Lionel NYC type.

The Premier model is Much nice than the RailKing model. There was also a nice MP Premier model around this time. I missed them all - and if I’m not mistaken none have been reissued since. Nothing for 27 years or so. ☹️  I’ve since run across RK model and passed. It sits WAY to high - lots of air between trucks and body. So the 2Premier models have become a Quest to complete a T&P or MP consist. NO CABOOSE. 😑. I’ve pleaded with manufactures and only get “crickets”. 
Trainbub

Took matters into my own hands:  K-Line caboose painted and lettered for the MoPac.  Not perfectly prototypical, but close enough for me when I have nothing else.

Looks great!

palallin posted:

TrainBub posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

Mine is the (IMO) more scale looking steel caboose MTH 20-91103. The Railking is kind of a takeoff of the old Lionel NYC type.

The Premier model is Much nice than the RailKing model. There was also a nice MP Premier model around this time. I missed them all - and if I’m not mistaken none have been reissued since. Nothing for 27 years or so. ☹️  I’ve since run across RK model and passed. It sits WAY to high - lots of air between trucks and body. So the 2Premier models have become a Quest to complete a T&P or MP consist. NO CABOOSE. 😑. I’ve pleaded with manufactures and only get “crickets”. 
Trainbub

Took matters into my own hands:  K-Line caboose painted and lettered for the MoPac.  Not perfectly prototypical, but close enough for me when I have nothing else.

Beautiful. Nice red/brown wood caboose. I’d love to have this in either MP or T&P. Looks like it sits on trucks nice too. I’ve not attempted custom paint job but this one tempts me. Have no KLine. I’ll have to be watching at shows. 
Thanks for sharing. 
Trainbub

GoldenGate did a run of Heavyweights and T&P was included (I tried to get MO added to offering but to no avail) in the run (nice tag along to go with their brass T&P 2-10-4 #610).  The Hwts included RPO, Baggage, Diner, and Observation. Pullmans were also issued and I think unlettered versions. All was by reservations. There were no “remainders” and I’ve not seen Any of these for resale. (public Delivery Track occasionally has T&P, MP items). They are quite nice and if it makes nice add to your collections,  I recommend watching favorite sale/resale site as people do shuffle their collections. 
Cheers

Trainbub

Missed those, except for the baggage. 

Well I like the models but I also appreciate good rail art.  This is a favorite of mine by John Winfield. He has several T&P and MP prints available at “Winfield Rail Art” if my memory is correct.  Really nice artwork.

Trainbub

Well, this was a T&P budget buster but I had to make it happen. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity and is the cornerstone of my T&P, MP empire. It’s an absolutely gorgeous model. Great for ANY consist. 
Trainbub

I sold off other hobby stuff to buy mine. Love mine.... though, Right now the sound is out - the chuff. Everything else works. 

My two Rail O scale expert friend says the crummy old Max Gray ones are going for $3-4K. These new 3rd Rail ones will likely appreciate a good deal in the coming years. 

Griff Murphey posted:

I sold off other hobby stuff to buy mine. Love mine.... though, Right now the sound is out - the chuff. Everything else works. 

My two Rail O scale expert friend says the crummy old Max Gray ones are going for $3-4K. These will likely appreciate a good deal in the coming years. 

I think max 50 2 rail 50 3rail then split into all the different versions this and includes CGW pieces. This is why I HAD to stretch. So few !!! Unlikely ever again. 
Now if we could get the Frisco 1522 done !!!!!!!!!!!  (Grew up in St. Louis, school in Rolla, fixing to “repatriate back to St. Louis in retirement)

Trainbub

Does anyone have a 1927550 Sunshine Special RPO?  They seem to be sold out.  Which dealer might still have this. I had no idea that they had been released. I have the Sunshine Special #1 and #2 sets and have ordered the #3 set and the station sounds diner and they are on the way, but I am short the RPO.  Pat B.

Hello Griff,

A while back, we had a discussion about the Russian colored steam chest and body for early edition T&P steam engines. I am creating a T&P ten wheeler and would like to paint the appropriate parts in Russian (gray/green). I have some examples of three colors that are labeled as Russian. They would not show correctly if sent over the internet. I would like to mail these chips to you. Maybe you can match one of them with your memory of what the color should be like on my engine. If you would grab my email from my profile and send your snail mail address, I will mail you the samples. Pictures really got fuzzy by attaching here.

Thanks in advance, Vic

Was the SS broken up into 4 sections in NE Texas?  Like St. Lousis to:

1.  San Antonio/Laredo

2.  DFW/El Paso.

3.  Houston/Galveston/Corpus Christi/Brownsville.

4.  New Orleans?

Of course, this means the train ran over more of the MoPac, including the T&p.

I think most people paint T&P boilers in something like GN gray-green. Remember these engines weathered a good deal and color photos have suffered over the years so in some sense it’s anybody’s guess. My office phone is (817) 335-9440 but I have little to add to that. I can let Tom Stamey look at them for you if you wish. 

I asked Tom Stamey about the break up of the Sunshine Special. He stated; (The Sunshine Special was) “broken up in Longview for T&P and MP, then the MP section was broken up in Palestine (Texas!) into Houston and San Antonio sections,”

Depending on the year, if I remember correctly, the PRR ran a connecting train from NYP to STL.  The connecting train name was the...drum roll...SUNSHINE SPECIAL.

The SS was the main STL-TX train until the TEXAS EAGLE.  For a few months, the PRR train was called the....drum roll...TE.  Then the train name got changed to the PENN TEXAS.

Considering the train used STL as its northern terminal, I could see run through cars from other railroads.  Head end and Pullmans come to mind.  A PRR R50 refer on the head end would be a possibility, I think.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Was the SS broken up into 4 sections in NE Texas?  Like St. Lousis to:

1.  San Antonio/Laredo

2.  DFW/El Paso.

3.  Houston/Galveston/Corpus Christi/Brownsville.

4.  New Orleans?

Of course, this means the train ran over more of the MoPac, including the T&p.

I believe the New Orleans section was broken out in Little Rock and routed through Pine Bluff into Louisiana.  Pat B.

N My T&P 1950 timetable shows the Sunshine Special was T&P train 231 leaving NYC and arriving in Longview which lends credence to Tom Stamey’s comment that that was where the train was broken up. Apparently it got in at 7 PM and departed at 9:55 PM as their train number 8, the Westerner. which went on to LA. However I am no expert at deciphering vintage time tables. At least as late as the Mid 1970’s there was a vintage sign left at the Fort Worth T&P station and Hq building which featured the arrival time of the Sunshine Special. If you want a copy of this timetable call my office at (817) 335-9440, leave your name and mailing address, and I will make you a copy.

 Neither Little Rock nor Pine Bluff appear on the timetable for trains 21 and 22 to New Orleans. 

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Depending on the year, if I remember correctly, the PRR ran a connecting train from NYP to STL.  The connecting train name was the...drum roll...SUNSHINE SPECIAL.

The SS was the main STL-TX train until the TEXAS EAGLE.  For a few months, the PRR train was called the....drum roll...TE.  Then the train name got changed to the PENN TEXAS.

Considering the train used STL as its northern terminal, I could see run through cars from other railroads.  Head end and Pullmans come to mind.  A PRR R50 refer on the head end would be a possibility, I think.

Other consists can be put together one piece at a time - and it can be fun when you finish. And mix the MP and T&P pieces. They are “out there” if you look. Here are some of mine

andDiesel and RPO are MTH, TP box/mail and Reefers are Atlas, Heavyweight Coach is GoldenGate/Peterson Supply. 
TrainBub 🙂

Nice collection of rolling stock. Is that diesel the MP PA?  I missed out on the Golden gate T&P run, sadly, but did get a baggage from Rattler 21. As a kid I always enjoyed seeing the long strings of olive drab standard clerestory roof rpo, baggage etc. cars parked at the T&P depot, although sadly steam was long gone. 

Griff Murphey posted:

Nice collection of rolling stock. Is that diesel the MP PA?  I missed out on the Golden gate T&P run, sadly, but did get a baggage from Rattler 21. As a kid I always enjoyed seeing the long strings of olive drab standard clerestory roof rpo, baggage etc. cars parked at the T&P depot, although sadly steam was long gone. 

Yep. MP PA is part of MTH ABA set. Don’t have to use em all. In fact now days I’ll just buy one “A” unit. With a small layout, I’d rather look at diverse rolling stock as opposed to having the layout eaten up by an ABA. I was happy to be able to get the four recent T&P pieces of GGate ( And I think they will be more scarce than hens teeth). I also picked up a Pullman baggage car. Nice because it will look nice in ANY road consist. I will mix all this  in with a MTH 5 car streamline set (not room for all at once ). Looks like I will regrettably miss the Lionel “Sunshine Special” cars. Just NO more room (no basement). ☹️  They look quite Nice. 👍

Do the GGD cars stay coupled? I had to strap down the couplers on my baggage car pulling a 7 car consist behind it.

Sure wish I had not missed those passenger cars. Were they made with interiors?

Griff Murphey posted:

Do the GGD cars stay coupled? I had to strap down the couplers on my baggage car pulling a 7 car consist behind it.

Sure wish I had not missed those passenger cars. Were they made with interiors?

GGD cars have interiors. Couplers mostly decent for me but don’t have room for 8 passenger cars. Peterson Supply still has heavyweight blue and white MP coaches for sale if you like mixed consists. I’ve picked up two. You can buy just one if you wish. 
Ive campaigned Scott at GGD to follow his last heavyweight offering with a green (mostly) heavyweight coach offering with expanded roads. Call it a coachapalooza. 
ive also campaigned for MP and T&P Eagle (Texas and Colorado Eagles) streamline offering. 
The more requests the better. 
Cheers

Trainbub

The thing is I argue the major roads’ markets are saturated. Yet we see these tiny runs of T&P and afterwards people are crying because for whatever reason they were unaware that something was being run... 

I would bet Scott has had more than a few inquiries from folks who want a 600 class 2-10-4.

I’ll likely not live long enough to see another run of T&P F units, accurate or not! Took 68 years of my life for them to get done and I missed those!

Murphey posted:

The thing is I argue the major roads’ markets are saturated. Yet we see these tiny runs of T&P and afterwards people are crying because for whatever reason they were unaware that something was being run... 

I would bet Scott has had more than a few inquiries from folks who want a 600 class 2-10-4.

I’ll likely not live long enough to see another run of T&P F units, accurate or not! Took 68 years of my life for them to get done and I missed those!

 

Well Scott is currently offering GP7&9s and I believe work may be starting soon on them. Reservations are still open !!! There was MP (blue/grey) and T&P (swamp jolly orange) 7s and 9s but the 7s have been dropped for lack of reservations - the 9s survive (MP Jenks Blue, T&P blue and white). Check the website. Nice with fixed pilots !!!!  I think the 7s didn’t catch as Atlas had done the TP7 before in S H Orange and currently is supposed to be soon delivering the MP 7 in blue grey. 
here are the to be produced colors for the 9s /. Hmmm. Ended up above. Oh well. 
Trainbub

Will check it out tho I have the two MTH ones; the yellow iteration or what I call “sun- faded swamp Holly Orange “ - and the blue and white one, even have a Lionel buzz saw and eagle blue one,