Need Help, fairly new to Model trains and building a layout for my Son

Since no one has responded, I'll chime in with my limited knowledge of MTH products. Your Mohawk engine can be operated conventionally, i.e., with just your existing Lionel transformers supplying power to the track and adjusting speed with their handles. You probably will not be able to access all of the train's features, but you don't need to buy anything else.

You didn't give the model number but you should be able to also operate the train via the MTH app and a download to your iphone or android phone or device from Google Play.

You can further operate in command mode using the Remote Commander (allows 1 engine operation); the Explorer (allows up to 3 engine operation); or the full blown TIU/WIU DCS system. Each of these requires an expenditure of funds and because of MTH's and supply chain issues, may not be currently available, especially at reasonable prices.

I would recommend that you visit the MTH website and click on the 2020 RailKing Catalogue and view the first 10 pages to familiarize yourself with what's available for you to operate MTH engines.

Roddyrex,

Lots to unpack here, but one bit of friendly advice.

DON'T buy anymore trains until you've got a better handle on the various control systems out there. Unfortunately, unless you run 100 percent conventional there are lots of things to consider with the different command control systems available and, in many cases, that may lead to what brand (and types) of trains you might purchase. NOTE: Not saying you can't have multiple trains from different manufacturers and run them with one system, but that's a bit of a thorny discussion for another thread.

And if you're following the many recent threads here on the forum, you'll see that even experienced operators have questions because of changes (current or planned) in control systems.

Not trying to scare you off (welcome to the Forum!), but some research is probably called for before you drop much more of those $$$ you mention.

Your KW will operate any MTH train conventionally. The melted wires probably were the result of a short circuit. Check this discussion for what will help. The KW breaker is for transformer protection, not trains or wires. Your expensive engines need  better protection from shorts and resulting voltage spikes. You can research control systems and still run trains with the KW. Just for your Information, there is a DCS system for sale here. Very nice  job with the ballast.

"You can further operate in command mode using the Remote Commander (allows 1 engine operation); the Explorer (allows up to 3 engine operation); or the full blown TIU/WIU DCS system. Each of these requires an expenditure of funds and because of MTH's and supply chain issues, may not be currently available, especially at reasonable prices."

Second the advice to hold off on the full blown Wi-Fi or standard TIU for the moment (the TIU isn't available except without warranty from the used market, usually at higher than reasonable prices; the Wi-Fi TIU is not yet available).  You only have one MTH DCS (PS3) loco, so if you want command control like features, go with the inexpensive Remote Commander (also likely only available on the secondary market).  The Explorer is a bit more versatile but is also a secondary market purchase and when offered for separate sale may not have the wall-wart power supply needed.  So stick with conventional for the moment (until the dust clears on MTH's rebirth as separate companies) or stick with something inexpensive for accessing the PS3 feature set like the Remote Commander.

I like your track layout.  I hope you did not fasten the fastrack directly to the plywood without some sound deadening material like cork board, carpeting or homasote.  The plastic track bed directly on plywood is quite noisy while running trains especially in a confined space.

Hi Roddyrex- welcome to the forum. Looks like you are off to a good start.

I agree with the other's that you probably don't want to go in on a full DCS system right now. I run my layout with a KW and also have a remote commander for the couple of PS2 locos I own. I also run Lionel's Cab 1L since I have more TMCC equipped locos.

The RC works fine but only offers control of the basic functions- speed, direction, horn/ bell, crew talk, coil couplers. No smoke control, and you can only run one loco at a time. I added fast-blow circuit breakers when I started running more command engines. Also consider TVSS (transient voltage surge suppressors). The RC is a line of sight IR remote so it has to be installed in a practical location where you can always point the remote at the receiver. It can be connected in passive mode (no power running through it) by simply connecting the red and black posts to the track.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductD...amp;currencycode=USD

http://www.mouser.com/ProductD...amp;currencycode=USD

Good luck and keep us posted.

Bob

Thank you all for your advice and input!! Here is the MTH model I won on the Cabinfevers auction yesterday.

It also came with 4 illuminated passenger cars. So the last time I ran the KW transformer I phased it with the 80W electronic lionel transformer and the train was running fine except when I turned the whistle know the train picked up lots of speed. And then I noticed a little smoke coming up from the track wire which was attached to the KW A and U output while the 80W was only connected for accessories.  The track wire gauge of course was just the small 22awg or whatever comes with Fastrack.

$600+ trains these days you think would be able to connect via wifi/Bluetooth for controls via an app without all the extra equipment. Our phones all have for 15+ years. If the industry truly wants young people to get involved they need to rethink their cost strategies. For allowing kids to use their technology for connection and control. My son would have a blast controlling these trains with his tablet, especially if they had a nice app for them. I just think the market for these is set much too high for kids to be involved. Normal Parents aren't willing to shell out $1k+ on a toy that's for sure let alone thousands.

I will try and use the KW transformer again eventually but yes I'd like to protect the trains and wire with fastblo breakers and transient suppressors or something like @JBSL18 suggests. I thought I'd be able to connect to the train maybe via the MTH app and just turn the track power on to control it. Is this not the case? Is MTH really out of business? So probably no updates to apps and protosound etc!!

Can you guys provide any pictures, drawings or parts to use for protecting the trains and wiring from the transformer outputs? Is 8A a good breaker to go with and those suppressors? That would be awesome!! Id like to use all LED'S in my accessories, and power them using my PC PSU which is mounted under the table to a breakout board. I will continue to update my build on this thread as well. My son is pretty excited for it!!

@Vallieone I did use a really nice cork underlayment under the track. Here's a picture of that.

Wow! Your ballast looks fantastic! I always wondered how I could use real blue stone dust but have it lay down and stick. So i'll try Elmer's when I get that far along. I alwasy feared dust up-take into gear trains.

Meanwhile, I've attached a pic of my breaker bank, using 10A manual-reset breakers (presently only have one cicuit in use). None of these parts cost very much from eBay or Bezos. They are much more responsive than the breaker on my ZW transformer.

”Building a layout for my son”, LOL! I used that line on my wife about 25 years ago. Both my sons have long moved out now and I’m still working on the pike.  Nice job with the layout and you’ve found a wonderful website that will help you as you expand through the years. Strictly for your son, of course.

Here, it's the grandson! (age 10). But my wife still buys the excuse! LOL

@Roddyrex posted:

$600+ trains these days you think would be able to connect via wifi/Bluetooth for controls via an app without all the extra equipment. Our phones all have for 15+ years. If the industry truly wants young people to get involved they need to rethink their cost strategies. For allowing kids to use their technology for connection and control. My son would have a blast controlling these trains with his tablet, especially if they had a nice app for them. I just think the market for these is set much too high for kids to be involved. Normal Parents aren't willing to shell out $1k+ on a toy that's for sure let alone thousands.

You can.  Almost all new Lionel product, in fact going back several years, will work with a smartphone app via Bluetooth.  How well it does so may be an issue, because distance can be rather limited, and not all advanced features from the higher-priced locomotives are supported.

Regarding lowering prices, it will never happen, particularly with Lionel.  They have always been premium priced, from the very beginning 122 years ago, and people have been complaining about that pricing the entire time.  If you want cheaper for the kids you can find cheaper for the kids but it won't be Lionel or MTH.

Mike

Like you, I have both MTH and Lionel trains for use on my L-shaped layout. I installed both control systems, but they are separately routed to the tracks through a 1950s-style knife switch.   

One side of the knife switch is connected to Lionel TMCC gear (135w PowerHouse, Command Base, PowerMaster, and a CAB1 hand-held controller); all wired through a Direct Trackside Lock-on (a fast-acting circuit breaker device) to the tracks.

The other side of the knife switch receives the output of a MTH Z1000 transformer routed for track power to a MTH Remote Commander, which is the cheapest form of DCS control. Because of the "L" shape of my layout, line-of-sight use of the MTH DCS hand-held controller is sometimes spotty. I have only one MTH loco (with PS-3) on board, so I didn't want to "sell the farm" to buy the top-of-the-line DCS gear for just one loco.

This set-up allows me to choose one or the other control systems but not both simultaneously. Some hobbyists have installed both systems on their layouts; that method enables simultaneous use of both brands for their locos. That seemed too complicated for me.

However, I just purchased a MTH Alco DL109, so I now have two MTH trains. I may invest in the next-step-up MTH control system - the DCS Explorer - for improved control.

Other hobbyists have offered practical wisdom (and sensible economy) to you and your son; i.e., keep it simple and run trains of different brands in conventional mode, albeit for use with only one train at a time.  Admittedly, not very techno-centric, but that method will work until you win the lottery and can then afford to purchase and install the control gear for both brands!  The latest Lionel catalog heralds the arrival of the super-techy Cab 3 control system; however, it's pricey at $500.

Carry on, valiantly ...

Mike M.    LCCA 12394

@Roddyrex posted:

$600+ trains these days you think would be able to connect via wifi/Bluetooth for controls via an app without all the extra equipment. Our phones all have for 15+ years. If the industry truly wants young people to get involved they need to rethink their cost strategies. For allowing kids to use their technology for connection and control. My son would have a blast controlling these trains with his tablet, especially if they had a nice app for them. I just think the market for these is set much too high for kids to be involved. Normal Parents aren't willing to shell out $1k+ on a toy that's for sure let alone thousands.

I will try and use the KW transformer again eventually but yes I'd like to protect the trains and wire with fastblo breakers and transient suppressors or something like @JBSL18 suggests. I thought I'd be able to connect to the train maybe via the MTH app and just turn the track power on to control it. Is this not the case? Is MTH really out of business? So probably no updates to apps and protosound etc!!

Can you guys provide any pictures, drawings or parts to use for protecting the trains and wiring from the transformer outputs? Is 8A a good breaker to go with and those suppressors? That would be awesome!! Id like to use all LED'S in my accessories, and power them using my PC PSU which is mounted under the table to a breakout board. I will continue to update my build on this thread as well. My son is pretty excited for it!!

@Vallieone I did use a really nice cork underlayment under the track. Here's a picture of that.

Just on the first part of this post - I think everything Lionel makes now, even down to the cheapest starter sets are Bluetooth equipped, and you can run them with the free app on your iPhone or iPad. My 3 year old (who I used as my excuse to get back into trains haha) uses his iPad and even the voice control to run the trains. So at this point, all of what you asked for is reality, at least for anything manufactured in the last several years.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go pre-order $1,500 worth of trains from the new catalog that I don’t need and won’t arrive for a year. 😬

Gee thanks for your great suggestions Greg!! Real helpful.

Now that everything is ballasted, you can pull the track screws. This should reduce the noise a little bit.

As for breakers, this is what we are using on River City 3 Railer club layouts...DCC Specialties PSX1-AC. One per track. You wire it between the transformer and track.

@Roddyrex posted:

It also came with 4 illuminated passenger cars. So the last time I ran the KW transformer I phased it with the 80W electronic lionel transformer and the train was running fine except when I turned the whistle know the train picked up lots of speed. And then I noticed a little smoke coming up from the track wire which was attached to the KW A and U output while the 80W was only connected for accessories.  The track wire gauge of course was just the small 22awg or whatever comes with Fastrack.

There should never be any smoke coming from wires.

22 gauge wire is too small for track voltage. Almost universally recommended is 14 gauge stranded wire and I would recommend you immediately switch to that gauge for your power from transformer to track and not run anything until you have eliminated the cause of the smoke; hopefully, by switching to the 14 gauge wire.

You can also try connecting from the B-U outputs to the track with the new wire and using the B lever to control the train and see if that helps.

@Roddyrex posted:

I will try and use the KW transformer again eventually but yes I'd like to protect the trains and wire with fastblo breakers and transient suppressors or something like @JBSL18 suggests. I thought I'd be able to connect to the train maybe via the MTH app and just turn the track power on to control it. Is this not the case? Is MTH really out of business? So probably no updates to apps and protosound etc!!

MTH reorganized under the direction of its senior officers (as an alternative to shutting down the company after no buyers could be found for the entire firm as it existed) and now operates as three independent entities --the train company, its technology division, and a parts supplier. As part of the restructuring, a chunk of their diesel locomotive, modern freight car and passenger car molds were sold to Atlas O (who now produces them in MTH's factory as a new 'Premier' line using DCS electronics as well as marketing DCS control equipment under license). A smaller number of molds were sold to Lionel, and their HO and S-gauge tooling was sold to other companies servicing the markets for those scales.

MTH itself retains ownership/control of most of its RailKing line and Premier equipment representing early-half-of-the 20th century prototypes, and rather than issue a yearly catalog, puts out frequent email announcements of special runs commissioned by individual dealers as well as a smaller selection of items made available across its dealer network. DCS apps and features for the DCS control equipment continue to be developed, albeit with a smaller staff.

---PCJ

Just my thoughts:

In a sense, you remind me of the guy who couldn't swim, walked to the deep end of the pool, yelled "cannon ball", and jumped in.  :-)     There's bound to be a lot of floundering, choking and sputtering.  Not a pleasant way to get into any hobby.

The best advice given here by everyone is "Don't buy any more trains."

If you have a conventional locomotive, then run conventional only until you have everything running right and smooth on your layout and you have mastered all of the electronics of it.   

After that, thoroughly research the standard command control systems, and ask alot of questions about them.  The settle on ONE and buy it.  Hopefully several of your current locos will run on the system you select.

Then sell or trade any locos you have that do not run on that system.  No embarrassment or shame in it, we all have things we have purchased that end up not working for our layouts.

Don't try to adjust your entire layout to run one odd-ball locomotive or system, just because you have it.

Once you have selected a command system, and have thoroughly mastered it and have everything running great, you can slowly move into the area of other compatible systems.

It seems as if you are in a great hurry to immediately have a "turn-key"  complicated layout.  In a sense, though, that is not what this hobby is about.   For most, it is about studying and learning and expanding the layout over a period of years, . . . not weeks.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

I rekindled my relationship with model trains after a ~ 50 year hiatus when my grandsons were 8. I started, as some may also have, by buying lines I remembered from my childhood. Naturally, they were all conventional at that time.

Fast-forward to 2022. The rails of my childhood are all gone. Every one of them: B&M, CV, MEC, to name a few. I realized one day about a year ago that I should perhaps be buying diesels from lines that my now 10 YO grandsons see in their home town (or when on vacation). I now have Vermont Railways, NECR, CSX, Guilford and PAR locos that still ply the local rails (yes, Guilford and PAR will be gone at some point but they still exist). So my free advise, if you are buying more, is seek out what the lad sees at his age vs your age. Maybe you do that already. Obviously, if your'e buying steam, thats a different ball game.

The other point I landed on is that ever kid that age uses an iPad. The apps are since to learn and use. Having said that, I have found MTH to much more to my liking than Lionel in that regard. I have both and run both at the same time but I think MTH presents more of a "WOW" factor.

Good luck !

@Mannyrock and others, you are right I am I guess to a point trying to rush and get everything I need to have a perfect layout and probably didn't know enough about the industry before I started buying.....hence why I have a DC only train, a bunch of O-27 track and switches, then decided on Fastrack. But in any case I don't feel they were necessarily bad investments as they seem to hold value pretty well. I am going to settle on running them conventional but you will see that this build will look really good in a short period of time even though I work full time and coach hockey 4 to 5 days a week!! I am a perfectionist and probably have pure OCD but I will do anything for my son and I will have this completed in time for golf season!! 😁😁