Need help with fixing a 223 Switch.

The "switch machine" in the 223 is essentially just an AC solenoid.  But since it needs to be a "double throw" (i.e., to be powered in each direction), and since AC current can't be "reversed" like DC, you actually need two solenoids, end to end, with the coil on each side wound the reverse of the other.  The controller then directs power to one side or the other of your "double" solenoid.  The "double" solenoid has one lead in the center which is common to both coils, and then each coil has its own "outside" lead.

So on a DC coil, if the coil goes bad (burns out), the switch will not throw in either direction.  But since an AC solenoid has 2 separate coils, one can burn out while the other is still good.

If you are hearing no buzz, no chatter, and the switch consistently throws one way but not the other, then one "side" of your double solenoid is dead for some reason.   Either it is not getting power (the wires or connections to that side are not good), or the coil on that half of the double solenoid is itself bad.  This can happen if the controller is held for too long: these are designed for "momentary" power to throw the switch and then immediately be released: steady power for longer than a few seconds will burn out the fine wire used for the coil.  But be sure it's not the connections and wires going to that side of the solenoid first, before assuming the worst.

If you have a continuity tester, you can check each coil by testing between the "center" lead common to both solenoids and each of the "outside" leads in turn.  You can even do this by connecting the tester to the terminals on the top of the switch - the three control terminals, not the aux power terminals.  I suspect you will find one side has lost continuity, i.e. the coil winding has a break in it.

david

Than

hojack posted:

The "switch machine" in the 223 is essentially just an AC solenoid.  But since it needs to be a "double throw" (i.e., to be powered in each direction), and since AC current can't be "reversed" like DC, you actually need two solenoids, end to end, with the coil on each side wound the reverse of the other.  The controller then directs power to one side or the other of your "double" solenoid.  The "double" solenoid has one lead in the center which is common to both coils, and then each coil has its own "outside" lead.

So on a DC coil, if the coil goes bad (burns out), the switch will not throw in either direction.  But since an AC solenoid has 2 separate coils, one can burn out while the other is still good.

If you are hearing no buzz, no chatter, and the switch consistently throws one way but not the other, then one "side" of your double solenoid is dead for some reason.   Either it is not getting power (the wires or connections to that side are not good), or the coil on that half of the double solenoid is itself bad.  This can happen if the controller is held for too long: these are designed for "momentary" power to throw the switch and then immediately be released: steady power for longer than a few seconds will burn out the fine wire used for the coil.  But be sure it's not the connections and wires going to that side of the solenoid first, before assuming the worst.

If you have a continuity tester, you can check each coil by testing between the "center" lead common to both solenoids and each of the "outside" leads in turn.  You can even do this by connecting the tester to the terminals on the top of the switch - the three control terminals, not the aux power terminals.  I suspect you will find one side has lost continuity, i.e. the coil winding has a break in it.

david

Thanks much David for your thoughtful response. I opened up an old 222 and saw exactly what you described with the two solenoids. I will check the continuity of the 223 in the manner your described. This switches came at a premium, so I am not going to take it past a simple test. Thanks again.

hojack posted:

The "switch machine" in the 223 is essentially just an AC solenoid.  But since it needs to be a "double throw" (i.e., to be powered in each direction), and since AC current can't be "reversed" like DC, you actually need two solenoids, end to end, with the coil on each side wound the reverse of the other.  The controller then directs power to one side or the other of your "double" solenoid.  The "double" solenoid has one lead in the center which is common to both coils, and then each coil has its own "outside" lead.

So on a DC coil, if the coil goes bad (burns out), the switch will not throw in either direction.  But since an AC solenoid has 2 separate coils, one can burn out while the other is still good.

If you are hearing no buzz, no chatter, and the switch consistently throws one way but not the other, then one "side" of your double solenoid is dead for some reason.   Either it is not getting power (the wires or connections to that side are not good), or the coil on that half of the double solenoid is itself bad.  This can happen if the controller is held for too long: these are designed for "momentary" power to throw the switch and then immediately be released: steady power for longer than a few seconds will burn out the fine wire used for the coil.  But be sure it's not the connections and wires going to that side of the solenoid first, before assuming the worst.

If you have a continuity tester, you can check each coil by testing between the "center" lead common to both solenoids and each of the "outside" leads in turn.  You can even do this by connecting the tester to the terminals on the top of the switch - the three control terminals, not the aux power terminals.  I suspect you will find one side has lost continuity, i.e. the coil winding has a break in it.

david

David, for future reference; can I disconnect the wires (inside 223 switch boxes) that run to the lamps and power them separately? If using the same transformer as the track, will any extra ground be needed?   What about if I am powering them from a operate (in phase) transformer?

Thanks in advance

Dreyfuss Hudson posted:

David, for future reference; can I disconnect the wires (inside 223 switch boxes) that run to the lamps and power them separately?

Although I've never done it that way, I certainly don't see why not.   And although running both hot and ground wires to the lamps would be a "cleaner" installation, if your transformers are all phased together there should be no reason why letting the light ground through the track would present any problem.  

Some installations connect all the grounding posts of all the transformers together.  This can be a good idea because 1) it very quickly verifies that all your transformers are in fact phased together correctly; and 2) it makes sure that shortcut schemes (like powering the lights from one transformer but letting them ground through the track to a different transformer) will work without a hitch since all grounds will then be sure to find their way back where they need to go.  Theoretically this shouldn't be necessary (all transformers already share a common ground through the house wiring) but some users find that it cleans up otherwise unexplainable gremlins.

I'm impressed with your using all vintage switches, at this point there aren't many Standard Gauge operators who do that.  A great project and will be well worth it when you have them all working.

david

If you are going to wire the light bulb on accessory power might as well go all the way and wire the switch motors to work on accessory power. 

There are several threads on how to wire postwar 027 switches that do not have the AUX jack. I do not believe it is very complicated.

Dreyfuss Hudson posted:

hojack posted:

The "switch machine" in the 223 is essentially just an AC solenoid.  But since it needs to be a "double throw" (i.e., to be powered in each direction), and since AC current can't be "reversed" like DC, you actually need two solenoids, end to end, with the coil on each side wound the reverse of the other.  The controller then directs power to one side or the other of your "double" solenoid.  The "double" solenoid has one lead in the center which is common to both coils, and then each coil has its own "outside" lead.

So on a DC coil, if the coil goes bad (burns out), the switch will not throw in either direction.  But since an AC solenoid has 2 separate coils, one can burn out while the other is still good.

If you are hearing no buzz, no chatter, and the switch consistently throws one way but not the other, then one "side" of your double solenoid is dead for some reason.   Either it is not getting power (the wires or connections to that side are not good), or the coil on that half of the double solenoid is itself bad.  This can happen if the controller is held for too long: these are designed for "momentary" power to throw the switch and then immediately be released: steady power for longer than a few seconds will burn out the fine wire used for the coil.  But be sure it's not the connections and wires going to that side of the solenoid first, before assuming the worst.

If you have a continuity tester, you can check each coil by testing between the "center" lead common to both solenoids and each of the "outside" leads in turn.  You can even do this by connecting the tester to the terminals on the top of the switch - the three control terminals, not the aux power terminals.  I suspect you will find one side has lost continuity, i.e. the coil winding has a break in it.

david

David, for future reference; can I disconnect the wires (inside 223 switch boxes) that run to the lamps and power them separately? If using the same transformer as the track, will any extra ground be needed?   What about if I am powering them from a operate (in phase) transformer?

Thanks in advance

These 223's can be powered by a fixed voltage transformer (we did it back in the 1970's). You need to disconnect the 'hot' powered lead that feeds the solonoids, and we ran a wire out the corner of the baseplate, then connected to the fixed voltage positive lead. This transformer and your track transformer need to be have common ground connected (and make sure they are in sync, you'll know quickly, and one power plug to the wall might need to be reversed).

What's cool is that the lights on the switches are always on and if you have the 'lantern's, you'll know which way they are set, and the switches will snap smartly using the 'non-derailing' feature.

We also modified 222's to get the non derailing feature as well.

Jim Waterman