1. That said I am unhappy with its operation for several reasons.
2. First is it does not run like the rest of my DC engines. I have to turn the throttle to mid-way to get anything out of it. I guess it takes a lot of power to run all the circuit boards that are still in it.
3. It doesn’t seem to respond all that well and there is a lot of sporadic hesitation. Sometimes it just stops for no apparent reason. Every once in a while, I can’t get it to do anything. Yesterday I was playing with it and it stopped… it wouldn’t move forward or backwards, however the funny thing was it started to smoke – as in the smoke unit kicked in (I added fluid to keep that from burning out)… what was that all about?
that's my story FWIW,
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
1. I can certainly see why.
2. Gee, that sounds like when I run post war field-wound Flyer stuff on DC. They do run, but it takes an awful lot of juice...
3. Wha...?
(I know none of this has to do with the topic at hand, but I couldn't resist...)
2. Gee, that sounds like when I run post war field-wound Flyer stuff on DC. They do run, but it takes an awful lot of juice...
3. Wha...?
Mark in Oregon
Mark, I think it is a matter of amps from your power supply. The first Flyer engine I converted to DC would barely crawl using a H0 MRC power pack. Using the Gilbert 30B (I think that's the model), with a full wave bridge rectifier for DC, the engine runs fine. Just a thought.
Mark, I think it is a matter of amps from your power supply. The first Flyer engine I converted to DC would barely crawl using a H0 MRC power pack. Using the Gilbert 30B (I think that's the model), with a full wave bridge rectifier for DC, the engine runs fine. Just a thought.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Good idea.
As it turned out, I later scored an old(er) Marnold unit (I've posted a picture of it someplace here) which has a 3 position switch for choosing the "level" of output, (it's labeled as "Load Compensator"). Anyway, I use the "lite" or "medium" for can motored stuff, (like American Models), and in the "heavy" setting it'll handle the Flyer stuff just fine. (That highest setting is also good for larger DC motors like what's in my Enhorning Fs...or O scale All Nation steamers...)
Anyway, I will stop now before this topic goes any farther afield; my apologies to the OP!
There is “An insider’s opinion on the future of American Flyer produced by Lionel:” by Michael Stevens on the American Flyer & S Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook group. I don’t know if it is okay to copy it here so I best not. Not all that interesting and nothing new really. He states he would like to produce Flyer, but they need support. A difficult balance, he says… It’s just too much money to tool up, etc. for the small quantities purchased. I guess there are just not enough S gaugers for a large scale manufacturer to bother with. And at the prices they have to charge, there never will be. Scale turnouts or not, we ain’t growin’.
I guess there are just not enough S gaugers for a large scale manufacturer to bother with. And at the prices they have to charge, there never will be. Scale turnouts or not, we ain’t growin’.
I fear that you are correct, Tom.
I think MTH hoped to capitalize on a niche market, but it was more niche than they even realized, hence it began to languish until finally sold to Scale Trains.
From what I'm reading about what is being said by Scale Trains in the HO world, it would appear that Scale Trains has also realized the remaining S market is not viable enough to warrant much investment. In fact, they are retrenching in their HO line. (There is a lengthy podcast where the Scale Trains team explains the decision and their new direction. A link will be placed below.)
Here's an explanation of Scale Trains new direction offered by a member ("Bud Hansen") of a FB group I subscribe to:
They (i.e. Scale Trains) are (going to be) doing what Irv Athearn did many decades ago, where the business model of "build it and they will come" as opposed to the modern business model of pre-order and prototype- specific models which rely on tactics such as limited supply to create demand. This has become detrimental to these companies (and they) are now realizing if they don't change they'll fail.
Irv Athearn knew this, this is why you can still find new Bluebox models today, his company manufactured hundreds of thousands of kits, not just for him but for other smaller companies too, the thought process being, the more you make the less per unit cost to make. Whether it was a prototype or not.... I've said this before, and I'll say it again now... it's a business model that works well, not every model railroader cares if every rivet or detail is accounted for, I have sd70s painted for the J, I would have loved to have seen green and orange western pacific sd40s 50s and 60s,, I don't care that they are not prototypical.
* This is an elaboration on my previous comment, based on the original Athearn company's production, not Horizon Hobbies which now owns the Athearn brand.
Perhaps the above is some insight into Lionel's situation: Not enough market to even warrant "buy it now, or never have the chance again" type business model. In other words, they feel there isn't sufficient pre-order interest to warrant such investment/risk.
We model among very complicated hobby demographics and economics now.
There is “An insider’s opinion on the future of American Flyer produced by Lionel:” by Michael Stevens on the American Flyer & S Gauge Enthusiasts Facebook group. I don’t know if it is okay to copy it here so I best not. Not all that interesting and nothing new really. He states he would like to produce Flyer, but they need support. A difficult balance, he says… It’s just too much money to tool up, etc. for the small quantities purchased. I guess there are just not enough S gaugers for a large scale manufacturer to bother with. And at the prices they have to charge, there never will be. Scale turnouts or not, we ain’t growin’.
At the very end of the post it says it was a quote from 1991 from Richard Kughn.
You are quite correct, I misread the post. Sorry if I caused any confusion. Michael Stevens, I believe, was attempting to say the Lionel appears to be in a similar position as they were when Richard Kughn was running the business. The 1991 quote as it appears in the FB group:
“I love American Flyer products. Most American Flyer people, at least as I understand, are operators, not collectors, and there aren't that many real operators around. So the audience is a very limited one. I do want to continue offering American Flyer products, but the problem is determining exactly what to produce. We do get requests to do this or that, but the production would be so small on a lot of the things that it wouldn't pay to tool up, set up the production line, and so on. What we are currently producing is selling through, and it's all in small quantities. I want to keep producing American Flyer, but we need support. It's a difficult balance.“
Again, I apologize for presenting misleading material, but it still seems relevant today.
I think S-scale is in the chicken & egg scenario. If people buy, they'll produce product, and if they produce product, people will buy. The trick is to get one side or the other side to start the egg in motion.
To me, the 1991 quote is even more relevant now than it was then:
The train enthusiast demographics for model trains was vastly different in 1991 in comparison to now.
The take away here is that Mr. Kughn's comment as to the difficulty of the S scale market in '91... SO... you can compound that difficulty significantly in view of 2024 demographics.
However, it is good to have such a quote in the proper context, because to me it brings the issues faced today into sharper contrast.
The quote is interesting for 1991. In the 1990's there was plenty of Gilbert items for sale at train shows around the country and from "lists." Remember them? some of the big sellers of Gilbert mailed out lists to their regular customers so we could get an early chance to buy before the next train show. Lionel was busy producing reruns of popular Gilbert items, all with conventional power. American Models and SHS were competing with newer and more detailed items. I consider it a true golden age for those of us who got American Flyer trains in the 1950's. We could now buy all the sets and accessories we could not have as a child. I sure did.
By the early 2000's Lionel must have figured out the investment model for American Flyer. In 2005 two totally new steam engines arrived with fabulous detail and hand applied items. These were TMCC They could not have been cheap to put into production. In 2008 the Legacy Big Boy arrived in S gauge. In 2009 The Legacy Challenger was made along with new in S gauge U33c Legacy diesels. Lionel discontinued the old K-Line track and introduced the FasTrack system with solid code 138 rail.
New introductions have slowed down after 2020. I think all our concerns are about if Lionel will continue with new product or just do a few reissues in S gauge. The price Lionel will need to charge is a big factor in sales volume, however I think for the right engines the sales will be there. There is really no competition in S gauge for new engines. River Raisin is gone, American Models will not be investing in new engines, and Scale Trains is unlikely to make S gauge engines in the foreseeable future. It is only Lionel, sounds like the ideal place for a manufacturer to be, no competition.
They don't improve their QC Lionel might just as well leave the market now. I purchased three Legacy engines over the last two months and two are at Lionel for repair. I am getting some frustated!
The price Lionel will need to charge is a big factor in sales volume, however I think for the right engines the sales will be there.
I think the biggest problem for Lionel, at least in terms of motive power, is their proprietary operating systems. Unless you’re into Legacy, et al (and I know many on OGR are), you are stuck paying for a lot of expensive electronics you don’t need or want. Yes, I know one can run Legacy engines with AC or DC, but one doesn’t need all that fancy baggage to do that and shouldn’t have to subsidize it so others can. Lionel could lower their prices a lot if they got rid of the proprietary electronics.
I think the biggest problem for Lionel, at least in terms of motive power, is their proprietary operating systems. Unless you’re into Legacy, et al (and I know many on OGR are), you are stuck paying for a lot of expensive electronics you don’t need or want. Yes, I know one can run Legacy engines with AC or DC, but one doesn’t need all that fancy baggage to do that and shouldn’t have to subsidize it so others can. Lionel could lower their prices a lot if they got rid of the proprietary electronics.
But holding my breath I am not.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Your a little late on the subject years ago K Line used to sell two versions of their engines one with full TMCC and one without the TMCC version far out sold the basic version…….so the question comes why make a basic when the market wants all the bells a whistles.
let’s be fair the new engines do things they only dream about in HO.
So yes I would love to see a standard OS system for O gauge it’s not going to happen. Unless MTH or Lionel goes under. Or the adults come back to the table.
‘BTW the prices for full sound and DCC for an HO engine is almost 300 dollars…..cheaper?
let’s be fair the new engines do things they only dream about in HO.
Um... no.
I can assure you that NO ONE in HO is envious of Lionel's proprietary, outdated, and clunky command system or "cutesy" smoke theatrics/whatever. Nor are they interested in oversized flanges and oversized couplers/etc and track systems that are lacking. I think you may be the one dreaming, there.
Neither MTH or Lionel can make inroads into the HO market because often their HO models, and for sure their command systems, are far below what HO already has with DCC.
AND the DCC boards available in HO are functionally compatible with one another as equipped. That is, my NCE DCC/RC system will run any DCC decoder offered, etc. Also, using my NCE hand held controller I can "consist" an ESU LokSound equipped engine with a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 sound equipped loco, and the consist performs as intended.
I can assure you that NO ONE in HO is envious of Lionel's proprietary, outdated, and clunky command system or "cutesy" smoke theatrics/whatever. Nor are they interested in oversized flanges and oversized couplers/etc and track systems that are lacking. I think you may be the one dreaming, there.
Neither MTH or Lionel can make inroads into the HO market because often their HO models, and for sure their command systems, are far below what HO already has with DCC.
AND the DCC boards available in HO are functionally compatible with one another as equipped. That is, my NCE DCC/RC system will run any DCC decoder offered, etc. Also, using my NCE hand held controller I can "consist" an ESU LokSound equipped engine with a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 sound equipped loco, and the consist performs as intended.
Andre
I''l second that. Nor are they interested in traditional v scale sizes.
I can assure you that NO ONE in HO is envious of Lionel's proprietary, outdated, and clunky command system or "cutesy" smoke theatrics/whatever. Nor are they interested in oversized flanges and oversized couplers/etc and track systems that are lacking. I think you may be the one dreaming, there.
Neither MTH or Lionel can make inroads into the HO market because often their HO models, and for sure their command systems, are far below what HO already has with DCC.
AND the DCC boards available in HO are functionally compatible with one another as equipped. That is, my NCE DCC/RC system will run any DCC decoder offered, etc. Also, using my NCE hand held controller I can "consist" an ESU LokSound equipped engine with a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 sound equipped loco, and the consist performs as intended.
The point here is what is the outlook for future Lionel S gauge engines and rolling stock. It is not an O gauge discussion, there is no such thing as "traditional" size engines in S, all engines made now are scale sized, what varies is the amount and accuracy of cast/molded-in details and separately applied parts.
Lionel makes two control systems for S, FlyerChief and Legacy. FlyerChief engines detail wise are just a bit better than Gilbert stuff, single unit diesels sell for a little under $300 street price. Legacy engines are highly detailed, pricing varies a lot, street prices from $500 to $1,600 depending on which engine. S gauge Legacy engines also run on DCC.
American Models engines are detailed somewhere between a FlyerChief and a Legacy engine, sell for $225 and up, conventional operation only as delivered. All mine have TMCC/Railsounds 5 installed. Alternatively DCC could be installed, some operators do that. AM has very little inventory, the most popular engines and cars are sold out with no forecast of any restocking, let alone new engines.
I do not see Legacy as an outdated and clunky command system. One unfortunate fact is Lionel has not made enough training videos showing how to use all its features. As a result most users do not use many of its really neat capabilities. All engines are pre-programmed, just set the engine ID with three button pushes on the Cab 2, run it over a sensor track and the system is completely programmed. With my Cab 2 hand held I can run any S gauge engine ever made, some in their native command mode, others conventional. Legacy does not care if the track is clean, as long as the engine does not stall from lack of power pickup, Legacy works.
Lionel finally did something to help sales with the U33c's and U36's, they made them with multiple road numbers. As a result I bought all the available road numbers rather than just one engine. The fundamental issue in S gauge is getting sufficient sales volumes. If engines sold 50% more quantities the prices would drop a lot, likely 25 to 30%. Lionel is not going to offer scale wheels so those with Code100 track are not likely buyers. Lionel is unlikely to offer Legacy engines without the Legacy system installed, it would cost more to delete it and revise the engine internals than it would be worth. For S gauge new steam engines more of the cost is in the design and new tooling than in the control boards. They could probably make the FlyerChief engines without the control boards and with conventional rather than electrocouplers. Might bring the price down $40 or so, is $260 that much better than $300?
Lionel needs to make in demand engines like an SD40 and a Hudson. Make them as both FlyerChief and as Legacy, and make at least 3 different road numbers for each livery. Price them aggressively and the volume will be there. Lionel has no competition, no one else is making new S gauge engines. Scale Trains is getting a surprise on how long it is taking and how much it will cost to reissue an HO steam engine MTH already made. This experience will not help doing the same thing with an S gauge former MTH engine. For us, it is only Lionel.
Lionel needs to make in demand engines like an SD40 and a Hudson. Make them as both FlyerChief and as Legacy, and make at least 3 different road numbers for each livery. Price them aggressively and the volume will be there.
The SD40, SD4-2, and SD45 are three in-demand locomotives that S scale modelers have long wanted (and Lionel even promised the SD40 in 1998, I believe.) Your assessment of the market is accurate, and Lionel did just what you described with the Berkshire. It first appeared as FlyerChief, then Dave Olsen described the additions a future Legacy version would have. The Legacy Berkshire did have a hiccup with a year delay; but when it appeared, it was priced only a little more than a diesel--a great model at a great price. I assume that Lionel could afford to do that because the Legacy was built up mainly on the base FlyerChief version.
If volume truly drives costs in Lionel's calculations, I do not understand why they do not offer scale wheelsets for all of their Legacy diesels. Scale modelers may account for as much as 15% of the S market, and they are typically fully capable of replacing high-rail wheels with scale versions. That is more sales volume at only the development cost of smaller wheels and of parts sales online. However, for a company that offered cylindrical hoppers in fantasy paint schemes, massive couplers, and out-of-gauge scale wheels as a product that NO ONE wants or could use, there is a marketing problem.
If volume truly drives costs in Lionel's calculations, I do not understand why they do not offer scale wheelsets for all of their Legacy diesels. Scale modelers may account for as much as 15% of the S market, and they are typically fully capable of replacing high-rail wheels with scale versions.
Terry O'Kelly
Terry, you and Tom make some interesting points. But if scale people are to be interested, what to do about Legacy system? While I don’t know firsthand, it is my understanding the Legacy sound is rather lacking compared to the DCC sound world. I also think all the extra electronics that attempt to make Legacy compatible with everything else are a detriment to sales. I believe one can run Legacy on DCC, but to get the full benefit of DCC, not to mention sound, one has to get rid of the Legacy system boards.
let’s be fair the new engines do things they only dream about in HO.
BTW the prices for full sound and DCC for an HO engine is almost 300 dollars…..cheaper?
I am sure that no one with a DCC system has any envy for Lionel Legacy performance. Just a quick look at other model railroad publications will tell you there is no comparison. I will leave it to Andre about how the costs compare. One thing I do know is a cost per performance evaluation would leave Legacy in the dust.
The other thing I hear is Lionel doesn’t keep parts available for very long. Many people voice concern that the electronic boards become unavailable which is important because of the high failure rate due to poor quality control. Lionel being our only hope does not leave me very optimistic. Maybe American Models, but certainly not Lionel.
OK let’s say first I am told DCC is the perfect system. It must be I mean that’s what people tell me. I am also told the DCC is so far advanced that it’s not even funny. I have yet to see any HO subway train that can do full subway stops on its own open and closed doors and call out stations as well as reverse destination signs. I also have yet to see a steam locomotive that has kinetic couplers Rollback wheel slip and a steam chest effects as well as a moving bell. While TMCC is far from perfect, this my system is better than your system is not only childish, but stupid. The main goal here is to play with Trains. And by the way, in O gauge TMCC is standard. So let’s move on and work for the greater good.
Not to make this a Legacy / DCC discussion, but DCC currently has a much broader range of assignable features, and the sound quality is most definitely superior. Some of the interfaces are perhaps not as friendly, however the Legacy interface has its own unique learning curve. DCC has come a long way in user friendly interfaces over the years and the open architecture encourages more innovation.
To the point and the thread though, newly tooled models in any scales other than HO and N seem to be harder and harder to justify. Perhaps the G market is still there, but I can't speak to that. This leaves us with existing tooling and perhaps new paint schemes at best. Perhaps Lionel, based on the amount of remaining inventory shown in the new catalog, has made the decision to not produce S scale until that inventory is reduced to sustainable levels. That would be comparable to MTH and their use of the Lionel licensing for the tinplate lines. Production became infrequent until it eventually was suspended for the foreseeable future. Not great news, but the market speaking.
However, not to be overly negative as I see the hobby being cyclical. Many people my age have discovered postwar Lionel after being in HO or N and love it. Well priced quality used stock is in relative abundance now and the prices reflect that. I could see a similar resurgence in S. My father has a fairly extensive collection of AF and American Models hi-rail S that he only started collecting within the last 10 years because he liked it more than the Lionel 027 set he got in 1955.
Tom, Legacy and its electronics do pose a problem in that they add significantly to the costs of products; but not all potential customers want those features. Legacy sound is quite good, but where it lacks in comparison to DCC is in the variety of sound choices, ability to modify the sound, and often inaccuracy such as double-chuffs where a steam locomotive should have four-chuff sound. Lionel put DCC capability in its S scale locomotives, something they have not done in O scale. That capability has far fewer options than true DCC provides in terms of operation and sound, and it cannot be upgraded without being replaced altogether; but in terms of cost vs. performance, my calculations indicated that a Legacy system was less expensive than a DCC system that provided the same limited performance. A full-blown DCC system can do almost anything, and it will likely do more in the future with easy upgrades. What Legacy does now is what Legacy will do for the life of the electronics parts that come with the American Flyer locomotive.
And speaking of parts, that is a major problem with Lionel products in every scale. They stock too few parts to match the chronic product failures. They change parts too often without much standardization. To find a replacement wheel set or scale wheels for a U33C/U36C for example, one has to know what year the locomotive was made because the wheels changed and the original wheels offered as scale wheels won't fit in later models because of running changes. The 2009 Legacy-only U33C cannot be upgraded to the Legacy/DC/DCC version because parts don't match.
Lionel management is in a tough position. Their Legacy religion forces them to keep it in their locomotive offerings while boosting prices for every customer, even those who don't want it or can no longer afford it. They have to make a decision about the future. MTH did.
"I will leave it to Andre about how the costs compare. One thing I do know is a cost per performance evaluation would leave Legacy in the dust."
Well, my figures are dated. (Inflation has hit the HO model railroading sector, too.)
I think a street price of $300 for top of the line (detail/features) recent release DCC/Sound equipped diesel model sounds about right.
During my engine purchasing years, street price for LokSound or Tsunami 2 equipped highly detailed engines was below $200. In fact, I purchased a great sounding and running Bachmann w/Tsunami sound for (are you ready for this?) about $100, brand new in the box.
For "do it yourself 'ers", you can buy excellent running engines without sound for around $100 (or much less), and for about $75 - $85 or so (street price), install a Tsunami 2 sound/DCC decoder. You can still have a great running, great looking, great sounding engine for less than $200.
Also, by "clunky" I meant in size. Remember MTH was having difficulty shrinking their electronics enough to fit inside the former SHS S scale SW/NW switchers. I'm not intimately familiar with the size of the electronics in Lionel's offerings, but I highly suspect they would not fit within a small HO switcher. That is what I meant when I said "clunky". There is no such issue with the decoders from Soundtraxx, LokSound, etc. In fact, sound in N scale is now common and practical.
As for performance, DCC has "back EMF" that works great and is adjustable. Also, my Tsunami 2 equipped engines have "Dynamic Digital Exhaust" to where it can be adjusted (if desired) so that the engine sounds take care of themselves as motor load dictates, without manually notching up/down.
Here's a couple of videos to illustrate that feature. Note once the user adjusts the throttle to the desired speed, the DDE takes care of the engine revving sounds:
Via using one's hand held controller, easily adjusting momentum and other features is quite straight forward. Also, all engines can be "speed matched" so that one brand will run smoothly along with a different brand.
DCC has revolutionized the way HO railroading can be done, nowadays.
Not trying to push or advocate HO or any such thing, just helping to illustrate what S scale is up against when it comes to growing their market. In fact, I applaud those of you that love and model in S. I can understand that, and I appreciate seeing your layouts and models. (As I've often commented before in support and appreciation of modeling efforts shared here in this S scale forum.)
Here's a couple of videos to illustrate that feature. Note once the user adjusts the throttle to the desired speed, the DDE takes care of the engine revving sounds:
DCC has revolutionized the way HO railroading can be done, nowadays.
Andre
Thanks Andre, that is awesome. I would love DCC just for the sound if I could, but I'm afraid I'm stuck with DC for the foreseeable future.
Thanks Andre, that is awesome. I would love DCC just for the sound if I could, but I'm afraid I'm stuck with DC for the foreseeable future.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Tom,
I understand, I don't want to purchase another control system, I now have the Legacy from Lionel but, DCC is head and shoulders above the Legacy system in both sound and control. You might take a look at Blunami by Soundtraxx, it contains everything in one board, lighting, sound, and motor control, you choose what you want from the menu and you control it from your cell phone. Don't confuse it with the app that Lionel has, the Blunami app is a world apart from that. There are many videos on YouTube from Soundtraxx with instructions and demos.
While we in O gauge have everything they have in HO. The one thing we do not get is support from the manufacturers. I have contacted multiple manufactures for friends with extremely old HO units and the only thing I’m told is will have to send you the upgrade that’s not available, but you can use this. I have said this multiple times why we tolerate this in O gauge beats the crap out of me. I am told that’s how it is go to HO if you don’t like it,
as for S gauge I always thought it was the perfect size not too small not too big but like everything else. It’s the big gorilla in the room who has the orange and blue box and while they do make S gauge they never really push it. The other thing we’re over overlooking is the Hobby is getting older, and there are less of us buying trains .
i know that statement is shocking………..who me getting older. When did that happen?
While TMCC is far from perfect, this my system is better than your system is not only childish, but stupid. The main goal here is to play with Trains.
<snip>
Well, just remember that you brought up the subject when you introduced HO (DCC) into the discussion.
I personally couldn't care less concerning what system, scale, etc, you prefer, or how you do model trains.
In fact, after responding to your original comment, (in which I concurred that some of your HO engines with DCC/Sound dollar figures were in the ballpark) my following responses were to share first hand experience with HO DCC/Sound to enlighten any that may not be familiar with DCC/Sound.
Well, just remember that you brought up the subject when you introduced HO (DCC) into the discussion.
I personally couldn't care less concerning what system, scale, etc, you prefer, or how you do model trains.
In fact, after responding to your original comment, (in which I concurred that some of your HO engines with DCC/Sound dollar figures were in the ballpark) my following responses were to share first hand experience with HO DCC/Sound to enlighten any that may not be familiar with DCC/Sound.
Andre
Why you are so nasty beats me, you seem to be an expert on everything so please do me a favor do not respond as I only like to have a conversation with people who can do it without getting personal
I have debated about updating to DCC, but I would have to modify 41 locomotives; so it's a short debate. When I bought my first Legacy locomotive ten years ago, the sound quality was impressive and the sound options interesting (except the crew chatter). In ten years, however, Lionel's Railsounds have not been expanded or improved because the proprietary Legacy system faces no competition despite much of it being open-source. Suppliers of DCC, on the other hand, compete with each other and continually improve their products. Andre's examples of "back EMF" were extraordinary and very realistic. No doubt future DCC features will continue to offer more realism and options as manufacturers compete both with innovations and exceptional service. That is not the case with a proprietary operating system and a "take it or leave it" attitude. If I were rich or young or both, I would start to switch to DCC immediately because of all the features. I would stay in S scale because of all the friendships and support we modelers give each other.
"In ten years, however, Lionel's Railsounds have not been expanded or improved because the proprietary Legacy system faces no competition despite much of it being open-source."
Newest Railsounds for Legacy locos include choices of at least five different whistles, bells and other sounds not previously available. The speaker systems have been improved as well, at least in the O gauge locos. Cannot speak for S gauge however. DCC systems in HO have nowhere near the sound quality of Legacy Railsounds in O in many cases, simply because the speakers are relatively small. In sound systems, speaker size and quality are key determinants of the listening experience.
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
OGR Forum Supporting Membership
Help support this forum with an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. You will be able to watch the videos in the INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO FORUM! A one-year OGR Forum Supporting Membership is only $12 per year, so sign up now!
OR
Access the ALL the OGR VIDEO FORUMS ANDover 300 back issues of OGR with a DIGITAL SUBSCRIPTION!
