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Hey guys. I just received my 4 pack of Lionel BNSF Bathtub Gondolas. They look great. I cannot wait for the BNSF set due out next month.

When I saw the outer carton, it looked a little small for 4 cars. Looks like Lionel is no longer packing 3 and 4 car sets with individual set boxes inside a master carton. No more individual Lionel numbers for the cars in the set. 

The master carton is still there but the cars inside are just packaged in their plastic clam shell. There are only cardboard dividers between the cars in the set box.

I am not complaining as I always take the cars out of their boxes and put all the empty boxes up in my attic. Just an observation that I found to be interesting.

Donald

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@SusieQ posted:

Interesting.....  I understand the cost cutting measure but for those who maintain an inventory listing it means 4 different road numbers are now under one product number........which may or may not be an issue for some.

Thanks for sharing........

You are welcome. I am one of those guys who keeps an inventory with the Lionel number. I also include the car reporting number in my data set so it is not so bad. I wonder what happens when someone wants to break up the set. You will no longer have a box for the car, just the clam shell.

Donald

@3rail posted:

Hey guys. I just received my 4 pack of Lionel BNSF Bathtub Gondolas. They look great. I cannot wait for the BNSF set due out next month.

When I saw the outer carton, it looked a little small for 4 cars. Looks like Lionel is no longer packing 3 and 4 car sets with individual set boxes inside a master carton. No more individual Lionel numbers for the cars in the set.

The master carton is still there but the cars inside are just packaged in their plastic clam shell. There are only cardboard dividers between the cars in the set box.

I am not complaining as I always take the cars out of their boxes and put all the empty boxes up in my attic. Just an observation that I found to be interesting.

Donald

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The packaging has definitely gotten a lot cheaper.  Especially from the Vietnam factory.  Cardboard boxes are super thin and tear easily, clamshells are super thin too, they have no structure anymore like the older ones.

Last edited by Sean's Train Depot

The packaging has definitely gotten a lot cheaper.  Especially from the Vietnam factory.  Carboard boxes are super thin and tear easily, clamshells are super thin too, they have no structure anymore like the older ones.

I agree Sean. The set box cardboard is so thin, you open the flap and usually it tears in the corner. As commented, I just store all boxes in my attic and hardly ever sale. As long as the product arrives safely and undamaged, that is what matters.

Case in point, I just received my Atlas GP7’s. Now there is some heavy duty packaging. With a locomotive, I really appreciate the way Atlas packages their products.

Donald

Last edited by 3rail

The Lionel dealer website used to have complete part number breakdowns for set items or any other rolling stock multipacks. A few years ago they stopped doing this, so if the item doesn't have an individual box its virtually impossible to find the actual Lionel part number.

Just curious, are the Lionel part numbers stamped anywhere on the bottom of the cars ?

@3rail posted:

When I saw the outer carton, it looked a little small for 4 cars. Looks like Lionel is no longer packing 3 and 4 car sets with individual set boxes inside a master carton. No more individual Lionel numbers for the cars in the set.

The master carton is still there but the cars inside are just packaged in their plastic clam shell. There are only cardboard dividers between the cars in the set box.

Wow. So surely the money they saved on packaging went to QC right?

@ed h posted:

The Lionel dealer website used to have complete part number breakdowns for set items or any other rolling stock multipacks. A few years ago they stopped doing this, so if the item doesn't have an individual box its virtually impossible to find the actual Lionel part number.

Just curious, are the Lionel part numbers stamped anywhere on the bottom of the cars ?

Well.....would you look at that. Good question Ed.

The set box number is 2243010. The four cars are NUMBERED on the BOTTOM with a unique number and date stamp.

Lionel numbers are 43011, 43012, 43013 and 43014.

Donald

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@3rdrail - Regardless whether the cars are individually numbered on the bottom or not, my Inventory also includes a ‘pieces’ column, so for example in addition to the product number for a 4 car passenger set I’ll put 4 in the corresponding ‘pieces’ column. Just a thought…

Looking forward to seeing a video of your new Atlas GP7 in due course because as has already been said, your videos are great and I always enjoy watching them!

Have a nice day!

@PH1975 posted:

Looking forward to seeing a video of your new Atlas GP7 in due course because as has already been said, your videos are great and I always enjoy watching them!

Have a nice day!

Hey. Yes, your inventory sounds like a good idea.

Now about the video. I am away from home right now. That pic I posted with the number on the bottom I cropped from a pic I had of the car. I have a Contractor doing work in my HVAC room to finally fix a ground water issue I have been dealing with for over 35 years. My good neighbor is keeping an eye on the house and construction. I attached a few pics. Thanks goodness I was able to build a dust proof plastic wall to protect the majority of the layout. The rest I covered with lots of plastic sheets.

However…you will indeed see a new video of the Atlas DRGW GP7’s when I return and get my basement back to normal. It will take a few weeks. But, I am retired and work fast for an old guy.

Donald

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How does that cheapen the product?  The product is what it is, the packaging is less.  I guess you like paying today's high shipping costs.

Seriously, do you believe that including the item boxes is going to affect shipping costs? Isn’t it more than likely a cost cutting measure to wring out more profit from the sale of the product?

Last edited by Mark V. Spadaro
@SusieQ posted:

Interesting.....  I understand the cost cutting measure but for those who maintain an inventory listing it means 4 different road numbers are now under one product number........which may or may not be an issue for some.

Thanks for sharing........

I find that interesting too.

I collect MTH Premier 36' Woodsided reefers and it appears that only the custom run cars have individual item numbers per road number.  The cars produced for MTH have 2 road numbers per item number.  Just adds a level of complexity for completists if someone were looking to get one of every road number. 

@rplst8 posted:

Wow. So surely the money they saved on packaging went to QC right?

A bean counter found another way to cheapen the product. Sad.

Even before the recent spike in fuel costs (which will undoubtedly increase costs even more), it's been a topic on the news for the past year that shipping costs from the far east have increased 250-300%. So I highly doubt they're wringing more profits out of the sale of these products. Especially given the miniscule production runs of these scale products.

Furthermore if one bothers to look, the retail prices between the traditional line of products and the vast majority of scale products are minimal given the all the tooling investments being made on the scale side. It takes years to recoup those tooling dollar investments, which until that point, the train company is not making any money on that product. Many companies have said this. And the HO companies have the advantage of bigger market share, thus bigger production runs, so they can recoup those investments quicker.

Lionel has always said it is the starter set traditional line of products that keep them profitable and in business. So maybe they need to double the prices on all the scale products so that they contribute in the same way to Lionel's profitability as do the traditional products, instead of the traditional line subsidizing the scale product line up.

And maybe if some of the other train companies had some "bean counters" working for them, they'd still be around today. I doubt any "bean counter" would have allowed K-Line to get $4.8M in the hole. Maybe you should be thankful for the so-called "bean counters" and that Lionel is bothering to make products with production runs of a few hundred items.

Another addendum on the topic of QC: I don't know how it is done. There's the Pantone system of paint samples. But some of these individual road production runs are as small as a few dozen. By the time Lionel could get a photo of a sample (if that's how it is accomplished), the production run is finished. It doesn't take that long to spray a few dozen shells with the correct (or incorrect) color.

I bring this up because on another thread about the recently shipped Atlas GP7's, there are 4 photos posted by Purplepapa of the same exact engine under different light conditions. Same engine, but by these photos they look like two entirely different models. And just to be clear, Purplepapa apologized for the difference in the photos. But I repeat them here because the differences in color of the locos based on lighting conditions is amazing... one could easily believe these are two differing engines instead of the same model. Maybe, just maybe part of the challenges faced by the train makers when your factory is on the other side of the world in a different time zone.

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@3rail posted:

Well.....would you look at that. Good question Ed.

The set box number is 2243010. The four cars are NUMBERED on the BOTTOM with a unique number and date stamp.

Lionel numbers are 43011, 43012, 43013 and 43014.

Donald

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So the official Lionel item numbers for each car would be:

2243011, 2243012, 2243013, 2243014

This makes sense, as in recent years Lionel has started using consecutive numbers for set and rolling stock packs.

This is interesting. I'm more of an operator than a collector so I mostly look for my item to arrive in decent shape. I do keep boxes for delicate items or items I think I'll transport often.

Shipping costs have been going up since late 2018 or so for me at work. I've been working on bringing our product shipping in house since 2019 to combat that. But I keep getting "well shelf it for now, we'll deal with it". Followed by "Hurry up and get something together!!". And then "it's a low priority" I'll never be upper management material

Seriously, do you believe that including the item boxes is going to affect shipping costs? Isn’t it more than likely a cost cutting measure to wring out more profit from the sale of the product?

Probably not for the individual package sent from the dealer to the customer, but scaled up it could have an impact on weight/fuel costs.

It also has the advantage of consuming less petroleum—in the production of the plastic—and less paper/cardboard in the manufacturing of the packaging. From an environmental/stewardship of the Earth perspective, that's a positive.

And, as you point out it likely improves Lionel's profit margins.

—Matt

Even before the recent spike in fuel costs (which will undoubtedly increase costs even more), it's been a topic on the news for the past year that shipping costs from the far east have increased 250-300%. So I highly doubt they're wringing more profits out of the sale of these products. Especially given the miniscule production runs of these scale products.

Honestly, I don't care. I have all the trains I'll ever need. If Lionel wants more of my money, QC needs to improve.

I've never said I'm unwilling to pay xyz price. What I'm unwilling to do is spend the money they are asking for the garbage they are producing. Maybe I'll miss out on some stuff, but oh well, I guess I'll be sad for a while.

I would like to see a bit more durable cardboard on the larger Lionel rolling stock boxes.  They really should not be crushed just because of being handled and packed for shipping.  The Vietnam plastic clamshells are also thin and often the car is broken through in shipment.  Funny that Vietnam is now making the Hallmark Lionel ornaments and they too suffer from the same issue with the clamshell. 

Hi Donald

Back to the trucks - sorry - looking a little more closely they appear to be the die-cast sprung truck with thumb-tack plunger - not newer style “scale” trucks ??? - not a problem just an observation

I know those trucks have the wheels secured to the axle thus the fast-angle wheels - not independent free turning wheels

PS - The cars look great

Thank you

Joe S

@dorfj2 posted:

Hi Donald

Back to the trucks - sorry - looking a little more closely they appear to be the die-cast sprung truck with thumb-tack plunger - not newer style “scale” trucks ??? - not a problem just an observation

I know those trucks have the wheels secured to the axle thus the fast-angle wheels - not independent free turning wheels

PS - The cars look great

Thank you

Joe S

Hey Joe. Currently on vacation but will take better pictures when I return. I honestly do not remember.

Donald

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