Just saw this story on NPR
and a video from the BBC
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Seen this last night on the Pittsburgh news.
All derailments are expensive, this one is really going to be expensive for NS.
EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (WKBN) – The mayor of East Palestine has declared a State of Emergency after a train derailment caused a massive fire Friday night that is still burning into Saturday afternoon. The mayor says a mandatory evacuation order is still in place for part of the East Palestine community.
Officials say their concern is with the vinyl chloride located in the train cars. They say the safety features of the trains are protecting the public from the vinyl chloride, but they are not sure about the specifics of the safety systems. Officials were also not sure if there are any other chemicals in the train cars that the public should be aware of.
Officials say Norfolk Southern Railway will give the indication of when the train will be safe for crews to approach.
Mayor Trent Conaway says East Palestine officials are partnering with the EPA, hazmat and the National Transportation Safety Board.
Officials say residents in East Palestine should call 211 for any additional information.
Mayor Conaway declared the State of Emergency just before 9:30 a.m. Saturday. This allows the Village of East Palestine to exercise all emergency authority for protection during the crisis.
In a 6:30 a.m. press conference, officials announced there is a mandatory evacuation for those living east of Market Street to Highland and Jimtown Roads. This affects about 1,500 to 2,000 residents in the zone.
There is a shelter-in-place order for the rest of the community.
Officials say they may put disciplinary actions in place for those who break the barricade around the train.
First News reporters on the scene noticed a distinctive smell that reminded them of paint thinner.
According to the mayor, there were no fatalities in the fire, but over 50 railcars were involved.
Mayor Conaway says no one was hurt.
“The train crew was fine,” he said.
The Norfolk Southern train, which totaled around 50 cars, derailed around 9 p.m. Friday on the tracks that run east and west through East Palestine. It happened on the outskirts of town, near the Pennsylvania border.
Several explosions have been heard, and those explosions could continue as the cars burn.
There’s no indication of how the train derailed.
There is a no-fly zone within a one-mile radius of the scene. Officials are also asking the public to avoid the area.
“We have multiple hazmat teams on the scene,” Mayor Conaway said. “Norfolk Southern’s here with its hazmat team too, to determine the possible chemicals that were involved.”
“We are asking residents not to drive around. Fire trucks are flying up and down the road. They’re tanker trucks. They’re full of water. They leak,” Conaway said.
The mayor says 43 residents are currently in the shelter and 10 local businesses are affected by the evacuation.
As far as what chemicals are burning, Conaway said, “We don’t know 100% for sure.” The train comprises tanker cars, box cars and a car hauling automobiles.
Drone video at the peak of the fire shows the flames stretching for around a half mile along the tracks. The plume of smoke could be seen 10 miles away and was easily picked up on weather radar.
Fifty fire departments from three states responded to help fight the fire, including crews from virtually every fire department in Columbiana and Mahoning counties.
“The initial challenge was just not knowing what we were dealing with,” said Battalion Chief Brian Rutledge, who was part of the first crew on the scene.
One of the biggest issues in fighting the fire was that the temperature was between 5-10 degrees. Mayor Conaway said the hydrants were working fine but the trucks pumping the water were freezing up.
According to East Palestine officials, residents may experience low pressure or water discoloration due to high usage from fighting the fire. Officials say the water is still safe for consumption.
The Red Cross is also in place to give aid to residents and help them access medications they may have left behind in the fire.
High School students Jacob Griffith and Cami Kridler had attended the basketball game and were headed to Chippewa for something to eat when they saw the fire.
“We were driving past Leake’s gas station on Taggart Street, and we just looked to our left and a giant explosion, probably at least 200 feet, and we’re like, ‘Oh my God. What do we do?'”
“I was actually the one that dialed 911,” Kridler said. “We all saw the same thing. One of our friends said, ‘Hey something blew up.'”
Norfolk Southern Railway has also opened a family center at East Palestine City Park Center until 10 p.m. Saturday and 8-11 p.m. Sunday.
Officials say there will be no other press conferences on Saturday but there will be another press conference Sunday at noon.
The preliminary report says an axle failure was the cause of the derailment. There was “a drastic temperature change” in one of the cars and the fear of a major explosion has called for the evacuation of a 1 mile radius around the derailment. I sure hope the can get this under control.
Obviously a terrible situation, but it's resulted in some unique detours for NS trains. Yesterday a Chicago - NJ stack train came through the NYSW in NY/NJ, and took down a ton of wires/poles along the way due to low hanging phone/cable wires that the double stacks couldn't clear.
Still waiting for the fires to go out amid concerns for an explosion. Mandatory evacuation up to a mile away. Train had 14 cars of hazardous materials, mainly vinyl chloride.
Wild stuff! It would be great if the explosion could be avoided.
I wonder what specifically failed on the axle. Had to be a heck of a failure for all this to happen.
@BillYo414 posted:Wild stuff! It would be great if the explosion could be avoided.
I wonder what specifically failed on the axle. Had to be a heck of a failure for all this to happen.
According to the NTSB, there was a defect detector that reported a defect, and shortly after the train went into emergency. Most likely a hot/burnt-off journal bearing.
That would explain the fire @Hot Water. Makes sense!
On another site that I visit a Ring camera picked up the hot axle/wheel on video. A lot of information on there from current NS employees who know the operation way better than I do so I'm not going to elaborate. If you search around I'm sure you can locate the video.
They are going to try a "controlled release" of the toxic chemicals in some of the cars in the wreck. Evacuation area has been extended to two miles.
I read that the controlled release involves using a small explosive to blow a hole in the tank car to drain/vent the contents...so that it ignites and burns off...which I guess is a better option than waiting for a BLEVE. Hope it all works out.
I saw a report on KDKA saying it was successful but will continue to burn off. Fingers crossed that the worst of it has passed and all those people can get home.
Is the (land) remediation process for the disaster site made 'easier' in letting the toxics burn off? Or is that another major headache besides the clearing of wreckage and relaying of trackage?
And just what do they do with toxic-soaked soils, et al...per Federal/State/Local requirements thereof?
It's one thing to get the trains running again. Seems like it could be a longer issue for the surrounding community to be assured of complete restoration.
Is there a nationwide 'Serve-Pro' (analogy) for handling the clean-up of railroad disasters of this sort? Just curious.
KD
I'm pretty sure the toxic material dredged from the Mahoning river was taken to a landfill @dkdkrd so I imagine similar things will be done here. I know Flint, MI used trees/bushes to absorb toxins from the soil. Maybe they'll do similar things here.
I thought vinyl chloride broke down into phosgene and hydrogen chloride (which turns into hydrochloric acid on contact with moisture) and some other stuff. I guess burning it in a controlled fashion lets it go straight up into the atmosphere instead of spreading in an explosion. I know they tried to get the controlled burn started at 3:30PM when the wind was dead. But I'm just armchair speculating. I mostly hope the wind dies down or doesn't carry this stuff 20 miles north to me or 15 miles southeast to my friends and family on the border. Straight up would be the best solution I assume.
I know hazmat teams are on site. That's probably the national "Serve-Pro" (same analogy I would have used by the way haha).
Hulcher is a large resource for the railroads.
Well, no matter how one looks at this horrible situation, my prayers are for Everyone effected by this disaster. All the folks, businesses, railroad employees, the emergency crews, the city, the doctors and nurses, simply everyone in harms way. I hope the clean up will be completed quickly as possible. Thanks for posting.
Crazy fools investigating the wreck; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPif7Vp16yg
Haha they're just thinning out the gene pool @Big Ken
I wonder if they were one of the people arrested for going through/around barricades and whatnot.
I just hope anyone affected by this is okay. I clicked on the link in the OP post to the BBC coverage of the derailment. Wow! That was some fire!
After watching the video on the Ohio derailment you know how it automatically goes to another story. The next story was "Man rescued after crashing stolen Police car". Some knucklehead in Georgia steals a Police car and crashes the car on to it's side right on railroad tracks! The Police were able to rescue the guy literally seconds before a train comes by and smashes the car! Wow! That was crazy!!
I just want to know what happened to the Monster Truck Driver who was arrested.
Cleanup started today. Cranemasters is on site, as well as several Hulcher divisions. This will not be a quick cleanup as they will have to pick through the cars and carefully remove any with hazardous residue. One photo I received shows a Cranemasters crane working on a tanker with smoke still coming out from around it.
Jeff
Class action lawsuit has already been filed. One of the demands is to leave the site alone until a thorough investigation is completed. I guess Hulcher and NS didn’t get the message. 😁
@ed davis posted:Class action lawsuit has already been filed. One of the demands is to leave the site alone until a thorough investigation is completed. I guess Hulcher and NS didn’t get the message. 😁
I can't imagine how much revenue would be lost if they left the site as is until the suit made it through the court system haha
Residents have been allowed how after the "controlled burns".
The latest on health concerns for residents near the derailment.
Interesting stuff. It's my understanding that trains are rolling through there again.
It's also interesting how people love modern conveniences until they find out what it takes to have them.
Hopefully these symptoms are all an effect of there being an event. I would hate to see long term damage occur in people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I wonder if the reporters that were there are feeling sick.
Certainly true that being in/near this kind of event can cause psychological issues. Real danger with chemical exposures like this is what happens to you in the long term, effects often don't show for years.
I thought a major part of the breach-and-burn was to make a strong updraft to push the particles up and away. I wonder if it wasn't as effective as expected.
I really feel for the residents. I'd be most concerned with long term health issues from carcinogens in the ground water. Fish kills have been reported at nearby creeks.
The plot thickens. As Hot Water mentioned earlier, a burning journal was the likely cause. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that a surveillance video at a manufacturing plant in Salem, OH shows a hopper car with a fire underneath it. There is evidently a hot-box detector near that camera as well as one much closer to the derailment site. The report says, "Hot box detectors are typically spaced every 10 to 20 miles apart, Mr. Wilcox said. On this particular track, the next detector after Salem was in East Palestine. The train would have passed that one less than a mile before derailing on Feb. 3."
Question is why the detector in/near Salem didn't result in a stop happening well before the train derailed an hour later. The lawyers will have a field day with this one.
I have always followed these stories on the forum and I find it curious , that so few , are commented on! Every day of the week , 52 weeks a year, there is a major derailment some where in the lower 48 plus Alaska, and no one says a word
@PRRrat posted:"Hot box detectors are typically spaced every 10 to 20 miles apart, Mr. Wilcox said. On this particular track, the next detector after Salem was in East Palestine. The train would have passed that one less than a mile before derailing on Feb. 3."
I was wondering about this. My parents said the camera footage was many miles before East Palestine but I had assumed the footage was from somewhere in East Palestine. I didn't know how far detectors are typically spaced. It's going to be a doozy if the Salem detector was neglected.
@Dave Koehler posted:52 weeks a year, there is a major derailment some where in the lower 48 plus Alaska, and no one says a word
The derailments are not sensational enough for media coverage 
@Dave Koehler posted:I have always followed these stories on the forum and I find it curious , that so few , are commented on! Every day of the week , 52 weeks a year, there is a major derailment some where in the lower 48 plus Alaska, and no one says a word
They don't all involve fire, hazardeous materials, and massive burn-offs close to residential areas, do they? What is major? Sure there may be more than 1,000 derailments in the U.S. each year, but most do not include the loss of life and/or major environmental contamination.
https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle272504491.html
@Dave Koehler posted:I have always followed these stories on the forum and I find it curious , that so few , are commented on! Every day of the week , 52 weeks a year, there is a major derailment some where in the lower 48 plus Alaska, and no one says a word
Now just where/how did you come up with THAT information? A "derailment", maybe but, a "major derailment"? Not to mention "every day of the week"? Somehow, I just don't believe THAT!
Starting to see more articles on railroad safety.
@Hot Water posted:Now just where/how did you come up with THAT information? A "derailment", maybe but, a "major derailment"? Not to mention "every day of the week"? Somehow, I just don't believe THAT!
Why dont you look it up
@Matt_GNo27 posted:They don't all involve fire, hazardeous materials, and massive burn-offs close to residential areas, do they? What is major? Sure there may be more than 1,000 derailments in the U.S. each year, but most do not include the loss of life and/or major environmental contamination.
https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle272504491.html
Yes a lot do many never make the news
Until we know the root cause, which will take the NTSA a while to figure out, it will be hard to figure out the why's and hows. You all see the news so you know that this of course turned into a political stink (and that is all I am gonna say, I promise). Was it because the railroad cut back on preventative maintenance? Would regulations for new braking systems have prevented this? If it was a hotbox, why didn't detectors pick it up and report it? None of that really can be answered at this point. Right now there is a lot of background, we know some rail safety regulations were rolled back or delayed, we know railroads these days with PSR and the need to please Wall Street have slashed staffing, have cut back on a lot of things...but we don't know if any of that had a role here.
Personally what I question (and folks, this is just me, and my own limited background) was the response to it. Did they even know what was in those cars before deciding to do a burn? One of the impressions I got is they likely didn't when they made that decision, some of those are so toxic that I wondered why they did the 'limited burn'. I also question letting people back into their homes with that thing still spewing toxic stuff into the air, it reminds me a little bit too much of NYC after 9/11 and claiming the air in lower manhattan was safe not long after 9/11.
All I can do is add my hopes and prayers for the poor people affected by this, the responders and the like risking their lives there, and I hope that they make sure people affected can get follow on medical care and be monitored for the rest of their lives, like they did with 9/11 in NYC, hopefully prevent tragedy going down the road.
@Dave Koehler posted:Why dont you look it up
No! That is not how civil discussions work. You made the claim, it's up to you to provide supporting evidence from a legitimate source.
