Beautiful - thanks for sharing, I didn't know about that one (a lot I don't know!). Is it toscale?
@Chuck242 posted:Beautiful - thanks for sharing, I didn't know about that one (a lot I don't know!). Is it toscale?
Chuck, you need to look here.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/40849085922032922
This is a topic all about Hudson's from head to toe. I think someone had posted the link to me on another topic(maybe RickO, Pat, or Pete. Having seen that I copied the link and sent it to my email. All you ever want to know about modeled Hudson's(including this scale one) are there.
Also, Pete had sent me a link when I was talking to him about this one I was interested in. I don't know if it is still on ebay, but that one has the SS Diner. Have a look if you are interested, or maybe contact your local dealer(or friends) to see if one can be located. Given the nature of how many times I have seen this pop up on ebay or online stores, there is a good chance you could get one.
I think maybe on this topic, @RickO had posted or mentioned his. Have a look back to see if I'm right or wrong. Maybe Rick will pop a video of his since it is by far the best Hudson Lionel ever modeled.
@Chuck242 posted:Beautiful - thanks for sharing, I didn't know about that one (a lot I don't know!). Is it toscale?
That Hudson was part of a 50TH Anniversary set which Dave has aquired. Lionel only offered this set back in 2002:
http://www.lionel.com/products...t-loco-5344-6-31705/
Not as graceful out of the gate as the Legacy models, but this is the ONLY version which does not have the class lights on the smokebox front which is more accurate.
I'm not bothered by the occasional Oddyssey lurch common for locos this era. Besides, its a hudson, not a switcher.
Having said that a super solid running and IMO has one of the most robust sound packages Lionel has ever offered, along with possibly the best whistles. The Korean build quality, of locos this vintage is superb.
One day eventually, I may upgrade it to 4 chuffs and fan driven smoke. Even still, I have trouble not sidelining Legacy locos in favor of it.
I purchased the loco separately from a forum member.
Here it is at the beginning of this video pulling some K Line Pacemaker passenger cars:
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:How about this NYC Classic I got delivered on Thursday? It has been years in the hunting for this lovely masterpiece and I managed to get lucky by making an offer to the seller on Ebay instead of going down to the wire on the auction.
Anyway, here is my newest acquisition, the Lionel 50th Anniversary Hudson.
Congratulations Dave! Enjoy!
Better late than never. On top of it between covid, and the market. These older J3a's are becoming much more scarce, and asking prices have nearly doubled.
Thanks Rick. It always great to get what you're after, especially when it is something as solid as this. I would only upgrade to 4 chuffs and smoke unit after I get some other projects out of the way.
That is a great set Dave. One thing that always puzzled me was Lionel's decision not to make the cars New York Central livery. I have never taken the Lionel Lines Madison Cars out of the box.
@NYC Fan posted:That is a great set Dave. One thing that always puzzled me was Lionel's decision not to make the cars New York Central livery. I have never taken the Lionel Lines Madison Cars out of the box.
Yeah, it's one of those wacky decisions they did along with some other Lionel Lines things. Pete was telling me when we were talking about this set the other day that he prefers the Kline cars because they say New York Central on them. The cars are the same(I guess in almost everyway excluding who made them). Have the same names and everything. I got a bunch of NYC cars here and there including a set of MTH ones I picked up from Mr Muffin in 2019's October York. They're good cars, just won't run underneath the Christmas tree. All the more reason to get that back bedroom clear of stuff to build a layout in there
Harmon at twilight ( photographer unknown) ….mostly cause I suck at taking pictures,….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pat
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@harmonyards posted:Harmon at twilight ( photographer unknown) ….mostly cause I suck at taking pictures,….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pat
Must have been the great photographer Mathew Brady who got that Pat. Looks dang(I mean the other D-word) to me.
@harmonyards posted:Harmon at twilight ( photographer unknown) ….mostly cause I suck at taking pictures,….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Pat
I see a P&LE A-2a hiding there lower left.
Ron
Dave, thank you for sharing the Hudson history link. Fascinating read, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I guess my postwar non-scale collection reign's King on my table because my first engine was a 2046 Hudson. However my Dad used to tell me about the incredible 'scale' Hudson that Uncle Richie had in the 1940's, he said it was perfect down to the placement and number of rivets on the tender. We held on to our trains and I am the current guardian of them (prewar, postwar and modern) ...but unfortunately, Uncle Richie was a distant relative, and that beauty is long gone. My current layout handles 031 track, and a few recent acquisitions (the hobby shop was going out of business) have to be passed along because they are so large (#777 Vanderbilt is boxed; #793 does not have a tender; #773 with tender doesn't have a box either, but it has a crew in the cab..LOL). Anybody interested just make a fair offer. Lastly...what does the 'PT' in tender mean? Thanks again for the history, photo, and great video's - OGR Forum is fantastic! Be safe everybody, and thanks again.
@Chuck242 posted:Dave, thank you for sharing the Hudson history link. Fascinating read, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I guess my postwar non-scale collection reign's King on my table because my first engine was a 2046 Hudson. However my Dad used to tell me about the incredible 'scale' Hudson that Uncle Richie had in the 1940's, he said it was perfect down to the placement and number of rivets on the tender. We held on to our trains and I am the current guardian of them (prewar, postwar and modern) ...but unfortunately, Uncle Richie was a distant relative, and that beauty is long gone. My current layout handles 031 track, and a few recent acquisitions (the hobby shop was going out of business) have to be passed along because they are so large (#777 Vanderbilt is boxed; #793 does not have a tender; #773 with tender doesn't have a box either, but it has a crew in the cab..LOL). Anybody interested just make a fair offer. Lastly...what does the 'PT' in tender mean? Thanks again for the history, photo, and great video's - OGR Forum is fantastic! Be safe everybody, and thanks again.
I have heard but was not able to back up is that PT stood for Passenger Tender. Regardless, it was the Central's term for the large pedestal tenders that also get called centipede tenders. It's similar to the tenders carried by UP 844 or UP 4014.
@naresar posted:I have heard but was not able to back up is that PT stood for Passenger Tender. Regardless, it was the Central's term for the large pedestal tenders that also get called centipede tenders. It's similar to the tenders carried by UP 844 or UP 4014.
For fact the Central proper called them “passenger tenders” as that’s what they were originally designed to do, longer running passenger trains with fewer stops,…….the mainstay being to cut down the time from NY City to Chicago……
Pat
Classic NY Central 10 wheeler (Legacy) passenger train on inner loop and F3 (MTH PS3) oil tanker freight train on the outer loop:
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@Chuck242 posted:Dave, thank you for sharing the Hudson history link. Fascinating read, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I guess my postwar non-scale collection reign's King on my table because my first engine was a 2046 Hudson. However my Dad used to tell me about the incredible 'scale' Hudson that Uncle Richie had in the 1940's, he said it was perfect down to the placement and number of rivets on the tender. We held on to our trains and I am the current guardian of them (prewar, postwar and modern) ...but unfortunately, Uncle Richie was a distant relative, and that beauty is long gone. My current layout handles 031 track, and a few recent acquisitions (the hobby shop was going out of business) have to be passed along because they are so large (#777 Vanderbilt is boxed; #793 does not have a tender; #773 with tender doesn't have a box either, but it has a crew in the cab..LOL). Anybody interested just make a fair offer. Lastly...what does the 'PT' in tender mean? Thanks again for the history, photo, and great video's - OGR Forum is fantastic! Be safe everybody, and thanks again.
No problem, always great to pass that around. Always learn something. You never know about finding gems. Tony, my local dealer had the original 1937 700E until he sold it to someone who I think posted about it on the forum(a few years ago). Occasionally they show up, not sure how well. I think about 5 or 6 months ago there was a 763E from whatever year that was produced on Ebay.
Picked up a few more NYC Reefers yesterday - a 4-pack of NVOS (New Very Old Stock - 1999). They are really beautiful, and really heavy. According to the boxes, they are “Phenolic Cast Reefers” and there are little tags on the bottom that say they are made in Korea!!!
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I actually just bought that caboose you were talking about earlier before I even saw this thread. Great thread BTW.
Thanks,
John
Xplorer
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@NYC Fan posted:There are 3 NYC steam locomotives that were made by MTH that I would like to see Lionel make with Legacy.
1. Dreyfuss J3a Hudson
2. L4 Mohawks
3 A2a Berkshire
Skip, you have hit the nail on the head. I've seen the Berkshire on Mr. Muffin's videos he has popped on YouTube and Facebook, and had heard him say to someone on the chat what it was and how hard it could be to find.
I saw Eric's Trains had the L4a, with some great interest to me about it. The dang thing with the big tender, man that is something else.
And lastly, the HOLY GRAIL and bane of my pursuit the Dreyfuss Hudson. That engine has eluded me like no other. No matter how many times we thought we'd see one come down the rails from Lionel, it just never seems to get out of the idea roundhouse. I do remember telling Erol, Peter and Don at one of the October York's, that I would buy every Dreyfuss should they produce them(not a weathered one though, not my cup of tea). Hopefully next catalog, we'll get a surprise.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Skip, you have hit the nail on the head. I've seen the Berkshire on Mr. Muffin's videos he has popped on YouTube and Facebook, and had heard him say to someone on the chat what it was and how hard it could be to find.
I saw Eric's Trains had the L4a, with some great interest to me about it. The dang thing with the big tender, man that is something else.
And lastly, the HOLY GRAIL and bane of my pursuit the Dreyfuss Hudson. That engine has eluded me like no other. No matter how many times we thought we'd see one come down the rails from Lionel, it just never seems to get out of the idea roundhouse. I do remember telling Erol, Peter and Don at one of the October York's, that I would buy every Dreyfuss should they produce them(not a weathered one though, not my cup of tea). Hopefully next catalog, we'll get a surprise.
Dave the A-2a Berk is NOT a NYC engine but a P&LE engine that the NYC forced the sister P&LE to order 10 of when they (the P&LE) were going to diesels. And in actuality only seven of the berks got built when the P&LE cancelled the remaining three.
In the Fall of 1953 all seven pulled from service. When they tried to sell them with NO buyers they were placed into open-air storage, without any special prep or protection, in McKees Rocks classification yard. So their days of service with the P&LE lasted only five years and four months. Which was the shortest tenures for a locomotive on any NYC "related" railroad. When the P&LE's parent NYC needed power in the 1955's the NYC leased all seven of these for use on their Southern District late summer 1955. All of the A-2a's worked their way to the NYC's Bellefontaine shops. As an example the 9405 arrived on the NYC Sept. 14, 1955 then taken out of service the 30th, keeping it down until Nov.1st. Then permanently laid-up Jan. 22,1956. Another example #9400 was placed in storage after ONLY 20 days availability.By the end of spring 1956 all the A-2a's were taken out of service and stored at the Central's Riverside Yards in Cincinnati. When the P&LE side lined these there was no care for them.
Here is my P&LE A-2a with its replacement coming up from behind.
Ron
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@PRRronbh posted:Dave the A-2a Berk is NOT a NYC engine but a P&LE engine that the NYC forced the sister P&LE to order 10 of when they (the P&LE) were going to diesels. And in actuality only seven of the berks got built when the P&LE cancelled the remaining three.
In the Fall of 1953 all seven pulled from service. When they tried to sell them with NO buyers they were placed into open-air storage, without any special prep or protection, in McKees Rocks classification yard. So their days of service with the P&LE lasted only five years and four months. Which was the shortest tenures for a locomotive on any NYC "related" railroad.
Ron
Were the A-2a's poor performers, or were they just too late prior to dieselization?
@RickO posted:Were the A-2a's poor performers, or were they just too late prior to dieselization?
Too late to the game, the A2’s were some of the most efficient steam locomotives ever built,…and they performed admirably,…however, as stated above, the Central proper did kinda shove the A2’s onto the P&LE, which although was a separate entity, still had to answer to big brother,….the P&LE was attempting to dieselize when they were “told” they were taking on these A2’s,…
Pat
@RickO posted:Were the A-2a's poor performers, or were they just too late prior to dieselization?
As mighty as the P&LE wanted to be, ….they were still told people,…🤣🤣🤣
Pat
Many years ago I bought a set of Howard Fogg P&LE prints. From that day I became a fan of the P&LE and had a particular attraction to the 9400 series Berkshires. I really hope Lionel makes use of the MTH tooling and makes a Legacy version of this locomotive.
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@NYC Fan posted:Many years ago I bought a set of Howard Fogg P&LE prints. From that day I became a fan of the P&LE and had a particular attraction to the 9400 series Berkshires. I really hope Lionel makes use of the MTH tooling and makes a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I could see that happening Skip, as the MTH Premier A2’s are still pretty tough to find on the secondary market,….hopefully some of the marketing people at Lionel used their brains to pick out tools for stuff that MTH hit a home run with,…..the A2’s would certainly be on that list,…..along with their L3, and L4 Mohawks…😉
Pat
@PRRronbh posted:Dave the A-2a Berk is NOT a NYC engine but a P&LE engine that the NYC forced the sister P&LE to order 10 of when they (the P&LE) were going to diesels. And in actuality only seven of the berks got built when the P&LE cancelled the remaining three.
In the Fall of 1953 all seven pulled from service. When they tried to sell them with NO buyers they were placed into open-air storage, without any special prep or protection, in McKees Rocks classification yard. So their days of service with the P&LE lasted only five years and four months. Which was the shortest tenures for a locomotive on any NYC "related" railroad. When the P&LE's parent NYC needed power in the 1955's the NYC leased all seven of these for use on their Southern District late summer 1955. All of the A-2a's worked their way to the NYC's Bellefontaine shops. As an example the 9405 arrived on the NYC Sept. 14, 1955 then taken out of service the 30th, keeping it down until Nov.1st. Then permanently laid-up Jan. 22,1956. Another example #9400 was placed in storage after ONLY 20 days availability.By the end of spring 1956 all the A-2a's were taken out of service and stored at the Central's Riverside Yards in Cincinnati. When the P&LE side lined these there was no care for them.
Here is my P&LE A-2a with its replacement coming up from behind.
Ron
I did know that they had been on the P&LE as I believe I read that on the NYC roster I. The web. Question though, were they lettered into the NYC for even a brief period of time, or is the MTH version considered a fantasy paint scheme?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I did know that they had been on the P&LE as I believe I read that on the NYC roster I. The web. Question though, were they lettered into the NYC for even a brief period of time, or is the MTH version considered a fantasy paint scheme?
That’s not a fantasy scheme Dave, the MTH version is quite accurate, and beings they were only transferred to the big four for a blip on the radar, I doubt the Central proper bothered repainting/ relettering anything let alone the A2a’s……remember, by 55 the Central was already on the decline, so things that would be construed as “frivolous spending” would have surely been negated,…..the evidence of the Central’s decline, and the move to dieselize is evident by later and later photos and videos of NYC’s steamers looking more & more derelict as the doom neared for steam….
Pat
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I did know that they had been on the P&LE as I believe I read that on the NYC roster I. The web. Question though, were they lettered into the NYC for even a brief period of time, or is the MTH version considered a fantasy paint scheme?
They are/were P&LE engines accurately represented by the MTH model including the two different builders plates. Pictures in one of my books show the P&LE A-2a's after the Big Four just like they were with the P&LE but in need of attention.
Ron
They are hard to find, I will say that. I got my Berk off the bay after patiently waiting for one to appear, and it finally did. Trainz had one up for bid at a very reasonable starting price, I forget what it was, well I won the bid. You can imagine my surprise when I received the engine and it was NEW! Never opened, and the odometer said 0 miles and 0 time. It really is one of my favorite engines, a smooth runner and love the sounds. A really great engine all around.
I didn't have time last night to look better than just a quick picture search under NYC Berkshire. I found a few pictures, some looked dirty on the tender(picture quality okay), and others seemed a little cleaner with lettering slightly faded. Of the two pictures, one said New York Central(faded on the tender), the other one looked grimy with the lettering obscured and said New York Central System. I knew most older New York Central items just say that, but later stuff had "System" popped on the end(think the HO caboose I have had System on it).
Anyway, my question of the Berkshire's is that was it only the A2's that NYC(P&LE) had? Were there no other Berkshire's that were used? I'm not schooled much on Berkshire's, that's why I have to ask.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Anyway, my question of the Berkshire's is that was it only the A2's that NYC(P&LE) had? Were there no other Berkshire's that were used? I'm not schooled much on Berkshire's, that's why I have to ask.
The Boston & Albany Railroad (a New York Central subsidiary) tested the Lima 2-8-4 demonstrator in March 1925. The A-1a class of 25 Berkshire types (#1400 - #1424) was delivered to the B&A early in 1926. The name "Berkshire" derives from the mountains in Massachusetts through which locomotives operated. They remained on the B&A until replacement by diesels after World War 2.
MELGAR
Most NYC subs changed from New York Central Lines to New York Central System on the tenders around 1935. Likely the A2s were always lettered System.
Pete
@RickO posted:Were the A-2a's poor performers, or were they just too late prior to dieselization?
Rick sorry for the long delay. Things have been hectic here with the HVAC crew making improvement to the new system, the Viking range repairman here, mowing the lawn in 90 degree temps with heat index in upper 90's. But that was better than todays forecast of HI in the low 100's.
The short answer is the P&LE A-2A Berk (and it was a PL&E engine not a NYC) was very well suited to the uses and needs of the P&LE fro a steam engine. But the diesels that the P&LE management were going to order (before NYC) stepped in) would have been better both short and long term.
Now most of my knowledge has been gleamed from three great books plus my hometown is the western terminus point of the P&LE. Kahndog Publications, Inc published a one hundred and thirty page book on the P&LE's A-2A Berks. Morning Sun Books inc published two volumes on the P&LE.
Now you may know the P&LE's nick name was the "Little Giant." The P&LE's mainline was under 200 miles. According to company stats this was 1/10th of one-percent of the nations rails. But they moved over one percent of the nation's tonnage. The P&LE connected the number producers of steel in the Pittsburgh area 64 miles northwest to the number two steel producer at its western terminus point in Youngstown,Ohio, my hometown. The road also ran 58-miles east of Pittsburgh to the Connellsville area.
The P&LE's A-2A Berk was well suited to high tonnage drag with top speed limits of 50 mph. But right away they had infrastructure problems to over come. The biggest steam the P&LE had were Mikes. The bridge over the Youghioheny River at McKeesport was deemed not safe for the pounding of these big berks. The turntable in East Youngstown was too short to tun the Berks, So in Youngstown ,until the new table was built, they cut the Berks off and and stored them until at least three were on-hand. Then crewed up three locos and used the Erie Railroads wye which would also take them over the NYC's Ashtabula-Younsgtown MainLine. The P&LE had turntables east gof McKeesport that could handle the Berks but until the new bridge was built they had to pull similar moves as in Youngstown.
But the real nail in their life on the PL&E is that as of September 30,1953 the provisions of the ten current labor agreement with the engineer' union required higher pay for engineers operating large road steam engines as of Oct,1st. over diesel engineers. Money talks.
The MTH model is great. I use to get a kick out of running it at local train shop. Especially when a NYC fan came in. Could hear them say "never though the NYC had any Berk's". They wanted to know where they could get one. Finally said it was NOT a NYC engine but a P&LE engine indicated by the fact that it said "New York Central System" not "New York Central" on the Sid eof the tender. Plus at the top of the coal bin there is a "P&LE."
Ron
Thanks for all the information Ron and everyone else. Always great to go to school of railroad history.
@PRRronbh posted:Rick sorry for the long delay.
No apology necessary Ron. I appreciate you taking the time to post the interesting info. Thanks!
@NYC Fan posted:Good weekend running trains!!! Have a great week.
Ah that face, that says it all. 🙂
@NYC Fan posted:My rendition of the New York Central's Putnam Division Sedgwick Avenue Steam Servicing Facility in the Bronx, NY.
Ten wheelers up the Put-Put!,….where the pace of railroading slowed down just a little bit,…😉
Pat
Another type of NYC Classic. Lionel's NYC Tug boat #10. A very nice scale model. Although it was originally advertised with exterior illumination it was delivered with only interior illumination. Later models, in other Railroad liveries, like the Pennsy model, had external lights too.
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The Dover Strait was out for a spin this past weekend at IRM:
Rusty
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....another classic.....and, a new stop on the Harlem Division below Harmon.....Menardsville 
Have a great and safe weekend, folks!
Peter
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@Putnam Division posted:....another classic.....and, a new stop on the Harlem Division below Harmon.....Menardsville
Have a great and safe weekend, folks!
Peter
Nice run there Peter. I guess they are going to either be heading into the tunnel or dropping off the cars for the steamer or diesel(depending on timeline) to run east or west depending on timetable.
Beer train meets meat train. Gotta love it.
@coach joe posted:
Must be a football game tonight in town, so they're preparing.
Great looking harbor scene. The detail on the viaduct (why not a chicken) is incredible. The lighthouse is very interesting. Who made it?
@NYC Fan posted:My Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson upgraded to Legacy by Bruk Bannister!!! What a great job he does. Here's a little video.
Wow Skip, nice. What all was done to it? Was it just electronics, or were there other things added in?
If Lionel did get the MTH steam tooling I'm not waiting for them to release any NYC steam. Bruk has already converted my MTH B&A Hudson. He's getting my MTH L4 Mohawk soon. Here some NYC Hudsons for you.
Skip, Wow, great video, Beautiful running Dreyfus Hudson, pulling a beautiful matching passenger train with awesome sounds. Bruk is an amazing technician, and someday I may buy a pre-owned TMCC steamer, or an MTH steamer and have it converted to Lionel’s Legacy. By the way, I love looking at pictures of your three rail scale feature rich model railroad. It’s amazing. Happy Railroading Everyone
On Saturday mornings at the club, you can count on Les having a nice NYC locomotive, steam, electric or diesel, MTH or LIONEL, running on the yellow mainline.
The LIONEL F-3 ABA passenger train is Murph's.
(Click on the thumbnails for full size.)
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How is this for a classic? Ever since I saw the Water Level Freight Set, I've been trying to get a hold of one, or in my case, the pieces. I got the caboose and the engine first, then it seemed to take forever when the Beacon Oil tank car finally appeared. I was not holding much hope for the hopper or the boxcar, but the last day of York just as I was leaving, notification came over that the Michigan Central Boxcar was out and about.
After 3 hours and change(got delayed out in Strasburg taking pictures and video), I got home and made the purchase. It arrived yesterday and very happy to have almost all the pieces to that great set.
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Just delivered from Schenectady, Hudson 5204, a member of the J1b class, is spotted leaving the service facility and making her way to the ready tracks at Harmon,….but not before the hostlers get a good look at the freshly minted machine ….
Pat 
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@harmonyards posted:Just delivered from Schenectady, Hudson 5204, a member of the J1b class, is spotted leaving the service facility and making her way to the ready tracks at Harmon,….but not before the hostlers get a good look at the freshly minted machine ….
Pat
One great looking engine Pat, no wonder the guys are gawking.
@coach joe posted:
That lighthouse is Plum Beach Lighthouse in Narragansett Bay north of the Jamestown Verrazzano Bridge in Rhode Island. In the Newport area, a gift shop in the area was selling this battery operated ceramic replica many years ago. Although I didn't have a clear recollection, it reminded me of the "Little Red Lighthouse" under the George Washington Bridge in NYC, and I bought it. Fast forward to my layout planning, I gutted the battery operated lighting fixture and replaced it with a 12v bulb and harness. I was then going to paint it all red, but I liked it too much just the way it was.
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@harmonyards posted:Just delivered from Schenectady, Hudson 5204, a member of the J1b class, is spotted leaving the service facility and making her way to the ready tracks at Harmon,….but not before the hostlers get a good look at the freshly minted machine ….
Pat
Beautiful looking locomotive Pat!!!
I have a question maybe you can answer. Since the Commodore Vanderbilt was shrouded in 1934, did they install classification lights on it for running on the mainline? I've never seen a photo of it with class lights. I've seen the similarly shrouded Mercury Pacific with class lights and was wondering about the Commodore.
Skip
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@NYC Fan posted:Beautiful looking locomotive Pat!!!
I have a question maybe you can answer. Since the Commodore Vanderbilt was shrouded in 1934, did they install classification lights on it for running on the mainline? I've never seen a photo of it with class lights. I've seen the similarly shrouded Mercury Pacific with class lights and was wondering about the Commodore.
Skip
Skip, although the shrouding process began the spring or summer of 34, the commodore Vanderbilt did not have its debut run until February of 35,….that’s right about the time the Central proper was standardizing ATC ( automatic train control) ….big name trains and higher profile trains would’ve been first to receive this advancement, thus negating the need for class lights,….obviously first up to bat, the big dogs, the limiteds, in all sections, and the CV, which followed the same route,….The Mercury, which ran Cleveland/Detroit would’ve lost class lights later than the “ main line” trains,…..just like upgrading street signs, super highways first, then smaller roads next,…..some branches of the Central proper never were fully standardized during the steam era,., so some locomotives assigned to those routes kept class lights to the bitter end,……most notably, a lot of big four engines kept class lights,….basically, it was prioritized by traffic demands,……
Pat
@NYC Fan posted:I really hope Lionel makes use of the MTH tooling and makes a Legacy version of this locomotive.
Skip,
Has it been confirmed that Lionel got the A-2a mold? I haven't heard anything to that extent.
If yes, my wallet will be mad with me, I might have to get one. If no, I wouldn't be surprised if Atlas picked it up since they appear to be getting back into the O-gauge market.
Bryce
@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:Skip,
Has it been confirmed that Lionel got the A-2a mold? I haven't heard anything to that extent.
If yes, my wallet will be mad with me, I might have to get one. If no, I wouldn't be surprised if Atlas picked it up since they appear to be getting back into the O-gauge market.
Bryce
Dave ( DaveNYCHudsonPRRK4) point blank asked Ryan at York about that locomotive and got crickets ….so did I ,…..crickets ……so nothing concrete ……it remains a pipe dream at the moment…..
Pat
That usually means it's already in the works!
@harmonyards posted:Dave ( DaveNYCHudsonPRRK4) point blank asked Ryan at York about that locomotive and got crickets ….so did I ,…..crickets ……so nothing concrete ……it remains a pipe dream at the moment…..
Pat
Yeah, he really couldn't say anything. This could go either way, betting on a big no as far as I'm concerned. As many have said before, believe it when I see it. Instead, we're going to get I think he said A1's like a prior B&A offering from I don't know when. That is all I know, when, I don't have any idea. You'd have to look in the catalog history to get some idea of how far in between. I would suspect not this coming year, maybe the following for any type of Berk's.
It's funny, how Lionel couldn't use the tooling from the 2000 versions of the N&W A steamer and had to come up with new tooling due to the MTH lawsuit of so long ago. Now there's a chance Lionel purchased MTH premier steam engine tooling. The fact that everyone is silent on who now owns the tooling is telling. Not proof but telling.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet Lionel has at least some of the tooling.
@superwarp1 posted:It's funny, how Lionel couldn't use the tooling from the 2000 versions of the N&W A steamer and had to come up with new tooling due to the MTH lawsuit of so long ago. Now there's a chance Lionel purchased MTH premier steam engine tooling. The fact that everyone is silent on who now owns the tooling is telling. Not proof but telling.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet Lionel has at least some of the tooling.
For sure they do Gary, but they may either be keeping things under wrap, or there could be a contractual obligation for a grace period, or maybe even not quite in their hands. Any of these things could be going on, and maybe more that we don't know yet. Hopefully we will get that A2, and others.
@NYC Fan posted:Beautiful looking locomotive Pat!!!
I have a question maybe you can answer. Since the Commodore Vanderbilt was shrouded in 1934, did they install classification lights on it for running on the mainline? I've never seen a photo of it with class lights. I've seen the similarly shrouded Mercury Pacific with class lights and was wondering about the Commodore.
Skip
Skip,
There's a watermark in this image in the lower right-hand corner. When I zoom in on it I can't make out its details because of the limited resolution of this embedded version of the photo.
I'd like to find contact info for artist who colorized it. Can you provide a name from the watermark, or a web link perhaps?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Skip,
There's a watermark in this image in the lower right-hand corner. When I zoom in on it I can't make out its details because of the limited resolution of this embedded version of the photo.
I'd like to find contact info for artist who colorized it. Can you provide a name from the watermark, or a web link perhaps?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
Hi, Mike!
It says "Colorized by Imbued with Hues"...
Thanks!
- Mario
@superwarp1 posted:It's funny, how Lionel couldn't use the tooling from the 2000 versions of the N&W A steamer and had to come up with new tooling due to the MTH lawsuit of so long ago. Now there's a chance Lionel purchased MTH premier steam engine tooling. The fact that everyone is silent on who now owns the tooling is telling. Not proof but telling.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet Lionel has at least some of the tooling.
That lawsuit definitely put Lionel in a unique situation, they still can't make the tmcc Dreyfuss Hudson in legacy for that reason. Hopefully they will come up with a new mold for that loco.
If I were a betting man, I would say Atlas got most of the Premier steam it since their O scale steam is practically non-existent. Lionel might have picked up a few pieces, but as to what they are? That is anyone's guess..
Bryce
I am not aware than anyone has acquired Premier Steam. Some Railking maybe.
Lot of wishful thinking here. Maybe it will happen. Good luck to you who are hoping it does.
Pete
I am curious! Why do "New York Central Fans" all of sudden have an interest in the P&LE A2a's that were NOT and never were NYC engines??? Yes NYC management "forced" the P&LE management to order 10 of these A2a's that were "designed' for PL&E's needs of of heavy tonnage drag engines with max speed of 50 mph when they wanted diesel at the same time the NYC was going over to diesel. The seven A2a's that the P&LE did get (cancelling the other three) never "RAN" on NYC rails until the NYC leased, I will say that again LEASED them from the P&LE in late summer 1955 for their Southern District. These P&LE A2a's sat one P&LE storage tracks since mid-summer 1953 with no PM and one of these Berks died within a month
These P&LE A2a's worked their way under load fromALCO's Schenectady, NY plant Delaware & Hudson and Erie freight trains to Youngstown, Ohio. The Erie made delivery at interchange near the Himrod Tower. The A2a's were serviced for a working trip to P&LE's McKee Rock, Pa permanent base.. So never "RAN" NYC rails until the NYC leased them from the P&LE owners. Unless you want to count the time turning the A2a"s at Youngstown before the longer turntable was built. For that period the A2a's were cut off and stored at the engine terminal until at least three were ready. They were then put together as a single train for turning through the Eire RR wye at Himrod TowerThen taken over the NYC's Ashtabula-Youngstown Main Lines the third leg the wyeback to the P&LE.
So again why the NYC Fan interest in the P&LE A2a engines that were never a NYC engine?
Ron
@PRRronbh posted:I am curious! Why do "New York Central Fans" all of sudden have an interest in the P&LE A2a's that were NOT and never were NYC engines??? Yes NYC management "forced" the P&LE management to order 10 of these A2a's that were "designed' for PL&E's needs of of heavy tonnage drag engines with max speed of 50 mph when they wanted diesel at the same time the NYC was going over to diesel. The seven A2a's that the P&LE did get (cancelling the other three) never "RAN" on NYC rails until the NYC leased, I will say that again LEASED them from the P&LE in late summer 1955 for their Southern District. These P&LE A2a's sat one P&LE storage tracks since mid-summer 1953 with no PM and one of these Berks died within a month
These P&LE A2a's worked their way under load fromALCO's Schenectady, NY plant Delaware & Hudson and Erie freight trains to Youngstown, Ohio. The Erie made delivery at interchange near the Himrod Tower. The A2a's were serviced for a working trip to P&LE's McKee Rock, Pa permanent base.. So never "RAN" NYC rails until the NYC leased them from the P&LE owners. Unless you want to count the time turning the A2a"s at Youngstown before the longer turntable was built. For that period the A2a's were cut off and stored at the engine terminal until at least three were ready. They were then put together as a single train for turning through the Eire RR wye at Himrod TowerThen taken over the NYC's Ashtabula-Youngstown Main Lines the third leg the wyeback to the P&LE.
So again why the NYC Fan interest in the P&LE A2a engines that were never a NYC engine?
Ron
Ron,
Are you referring to all "New York Central Fans", or just the ones who've posted on this thread?
Mike
@PRRronbh posted:I am curious! Why do "New York Central Fans" all of sudden have an interest in the P&LE A2a's that were NOT and never were NYC engines??? Yes NYC management "forced" the P&LE management to order 10 of these A2a's that were "designed' for PL&E's needs of of heavy tonnage drag engines with max speed of 50 mph when they wanted diesel at the same time the NYC was going over to diesel. The seven A2a's that the P&LE did get (cancelling the other three) never "RAN" on NYC rails until the NYC leased, I will say that again LEASED them from the P&LE in late summer 1955 for their Southern District. These P&LE A2a's sat one P&LE storage tracks since mid-summer 1953 with no PM and one of these Berks died within a month
These P&LE A2a's worked their way under load fromALCO's Schenectady, NY plant Delaware & Hudson and Erie freight trains to Youngstown, Ohio. The Erie made delivery at interchange near the Himrod Tower. The A2a's were serviced for a working trip to P&LE's McKee Rock, Pa permanent base.. So never "RAN" NYC rails until the NYC leased them from the P&LE owners. Unless you want to count the time turning the A2a"s at Youngstown before the longer turntable was built. For that period the A2a's were cut off and stored at the engine terminal until at least three were ready. They were then put together as a single train for turning through the Eire RR wye at Himrod TowerThen taken over the NYC's Ashtabula-Youngstown Main Lines the third leg the wyeback to the P&LE.
So again why the NYC Fan interest in the P&LE A2a engines that were never a NYC engine?
Ron
I can understand your love affair with the P&LE, ….BUT it was a red headed step child of the Central proper,….so until the time the P&LE could get away from the Central in the doom days leading up to that nasty merger, …the P&LE was a “told” railroad,….they were told what to do by the Central proper,….hence the big “New York Central Systems” herald on the side of the tenders,……and only tiny P&LE markings on the bunker tops,……the phrase “who’s your daddy?” comes into play here,….fortunately for the P&LE, they had enough revenue traffic to stem off the doomed mergers, and stand on their own two feet when the mergers failed miserably,…..they were even owed bunches of money by the Central, and managed to collect it, I believe,,…
Pat
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Ron,
Are you referring to all "New York Central Fans", or just the ones who've posted on this thread?
Mike
No Mike only the one yhat all of sudden noticed the P&LE's A2a's!
Ron
@harmonyards posted:I can understand your love affair with the P&LE, ….BUT it was a red headed step child of the Central proper,….so until the time the P&LE could get away from the Central in the doom days leading up to that nasty merger, …the P&LE was a “told” railroad,….they were told what to do by the Central proper,….hence the big “New York Central Systems” herald on the side of the tenders,……and only tiny P&LE markings on the bunker tops,……the phrase “who’s your daddy?” comes into play here,….fortunately for the P&LE, they had enough revenue traffic to stem off the doomed mergers, and stand on their own two feet when the mergers failed miserably,…..they were even owed bunches of money by the Central, and managed to collect it, I believe,,…
Pat
Then the B&A locos are NYC and the Michigan Central locos are NYC etc. etc.! The NYC's acquisition of P&LE stock was only motivated by their desire to get into PRR territory and Pittsburgh not as a holder of the P&LE.
Now my hometown Youngstown back in the day was served by FIVE class 1 Roads The Pennsy, NYC, B&O, Erie and P&LE. They are all roads of my interest. But as stated the A2a's did not even ride home on NYC rails.
Ron
@PRRronbh posted:Then the B&A locos are NYC and the Michigan Central locos are NYC etc. etc.! The NYC's acquisition of P&LE stock was only motivated by their desire to get into PRR territory and Pittsburgh not as a holder of the P&LE.
Now my hometown Youngstown back in the day was served by FIVE class 1 Roads The Pennsy, NYC, B&O, Erie and P&LE. They are all roads of my interest. But as stated the A2a's did not even ride home on NYC rails.
Ron
But as stated the A2a's did not even ride home on NYC rails.
true, ….but what’s that got to do with the Central profiting from wherever they roamed,….the Central subsidized roads for one reason,…….to turn a profit off of every mile ……wouldn’t have mattered if it roamed on N&W rails,….the flag is flown, the Central reaped the profits….
Pat
@PRRronbh posted:I am curious! Why do "New York Central Fans" all of sudden have an interest in the P&LE A2a's that were NOT and never were NYC engines??? Yes NYC management "forced" the P&LE management to order 10 of these A2a's that were "designed' for PL&E's needs of of heavy tonnage drag engines with max speed of 50 mph when they wanted diesel at the same time the NYC was going over to diesel. The seven A2a's that the P&LE did get (cancelling the other three) never "RAN" on NYC rails until the NYC leased, I will say that again LEASED them from the P&LE in late summer 1955 for their Southern District. These P&LE A2a's sat one P&LE storage tracks since mid-summer 1953 with no PM and one of these Berks died within a month
These P&LE A2a's worked their way under load fromALCO's Schenectady, NY plant Delaware & Hudson and Erie freight trains to Youngstown, Ohio. The Erie made delivery at interchange near the Himrod Tower. The A2a's were serviced for a working trip to P&LE's McKee Rock, Pa permanent base.. So never "RAN" NYC rails until the NYC leased them from the P&LE owners. Unless you want to count the time turning the A2a"s at Youngstown before the longer turntable was built. For that period the A2a's were cut off and stored at the engine terminal until at least three were ready. They were then put together as a single train for turning through the Eire RR wye at Himrod TowerThen taken over the NYC's Ashtabula-Youngstown Main Lines the third leg the wyeback to the P&LE.
So again why the NYC Fan interest in the P&LE A2a engines that were never a NYC engine?
Ron
If you're referring to me personally, my interest in the P&LE started when I was around 12 years old in the 1960's when the owner of my hometown hobby shop asked if I was interested in a set of post cards with paintings of the P&LE done by Howard Fogg. He knew I liked the New York Central. I bought the postcards. The painting that I liked the best was the A2a Berkshire.
Several years later around 1980 I bought a set of prints of those same P&LE paintings at the Strasburg RR Book Store. I had this print framed.
I knew little of any negative history involved until many years later. I just knew that I liked the look of the locomotive and it said New York Central on the tender. I lobbied for Lionel and MTH to make a model of the A2a and MTH came through. I bought the locomotive before I even had a layout with track radius wide enough to run it.
If I need any more rhyme or reason to like a locomotive, I'm guilty! I don't. And, since I now have a layout that can accommodate an A2a, and since I can't get the DCS system to work on my layout, I would really like a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I can think of nothing more interesting to pull a coal drag on my layout than an A2a Berkshire.
Hope that answers your question. My interest is anything but sudden.
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@PRRronbh posted:I am curious! Why do "New York Central Fans" all of sudden have an interest in the P&LE A2a's that were NOT and never were NYC engines??? Yes NYC management "forced" the P&LE management to order 10 of these A2a's that were "designed' for PL&E's needs of of heavy tonnage drag engines with max speed of 50 mph when they wanted diesel at the same time the NYC was going over to diesel. The seven A2a's that the P&LE did get (cancelling the other three) never "RAN" on NYC rails until the NYC leased, I will say that again LEASED them from the P&LE in late summer 1955 for their Southern District. These P&LE A2a's sat one P&LE storage tracks since mid-summer 1953 with no PM and one of these Berks died within a month
These P&LE A2a's worked their way under load fromALCO's Schenectady, NY plant Delaware & Hudson and Erie freight trains to Youngstown, Ohio. The Erie made delivery at interchange near the Himrod Tower. The A2a's were serviced for a working trip to P&LE's McKee Rock, Pa permanent base.. So never "RAN" NYC rails until the NYC leased them from the P&LE owners. Unless you want to count the time turning the A2a"s at Youngstown before the longer turntable was built. For that period the A2a's were cut off and stored at the engine terminal until at least three were ready. They were then put together as a single train for turning through the Eire RR wye at Himrod TowerThen taken over the NYC's Ashtabula-Youngstown Main Lines the third leg the wyeback to the P&LE.
So again why the NYC Fan interest in the P&LE A2a engines that were never a NYC engine?
Ron
@NYC Fan posted:If you're referring to me personally, my interest in the P&LE started when I was around 12 years old in the 1960's when the owner of my hometown hobby shop asked if I was interested in a set of post cards with paintings of the P&LE done by Howard Fogg. He knew I liked the New York Central. I bought the postcards. The painting that I liked the best was the A2a Berkshire.
Several years later around 1980 I bought a set of prints of those same P&LE paintings at the Strasburg RR Book Store. I had this print framed.
I knew little of any negative history involved until many years later. I just knew that I liked the look of the locomotive and it said New York Central on the tender. I lobbied for Lionel and MTH to make a model of the A2a and MTH came through. I bought the locomotive before I even had a layout with track radius wide enough to run it.
If I need any more rhyme or reason to like a locomotive, I'm guilty! I don't. And, since I now have a layout that can accommodate an A2a, and since I can't get the DCS system to work on my layout, I would really like a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I can think of nothing more interesting to pull a coal drag on my layout than an A2a Berkshire.
Hope that answers your question. My interest is anything but sudden.
Ron, I think that you may be over thinking why anyone likes an engine. You may say all of a sudden, but that may not be the case for everyone as Skip has stated. One's particular interest in any engine, regardless of where it ran is up to them. I know Hot Water has stated that the A2's were not really great runners, which doesn't matter in the model railroading world. If someone wishes to argue with him on how well they ran, they'd be running a fool's errand.
One of the most interesting railroad stories I have ever heard about was the Denver and Rio Grande(I believe) versus the Santa Fe. The D&RG was a tiny railroad, and the Santa Fe was the giant. Scouts were trying to find the best way through, and the D&RG was surveying the route. Well, the Santa Fe also was doing so, and built track where the D&RG was going to go. So, what happened was the D&RG built into a narrow area which was the only place to go. The Santa Fe was TO'd and couldn't get through.
Instead, they siezed the D&RG property, engines and everything else conceivable. Bat Masterson was involved with the Santa Fe, but from what was shown on the program I watched, he didn't do anything in bad faith, he was basically just there to be there, no shooting or such. What wound up happening is that the courts sided with the D&RG and told the Santa Fe to give back all they took(and maybe some more, been a bit).
Why this story you may ask? Because sometimes we model railroads that are essentially land locked by other railroads, or we just like to make it up as we go along. I do hope I got the historical information above correct as I am going from memory from a show I watched over 6 years or more ago.
As for me, the A2 Berkshire has a pretty face, lol. When I first saw this engine a few years back(the MTH Model of course), I liked the color and look of it. There are a bunch of engines that catch me like that, sure that there are some that may catch you like that too. Sure it is of par from my OGR handle, but why should I stick to just Hudson's and K4's anyway? Hope that helps.
@NYC Fan posted:If you're referring to me personally, my interest in the P&LE started when I was around 12 years old in the 1960's when the owner of my hometown hobby shop asked if I was interested in a set of post cards with paintings of the P&LE done by Howard Fogg. He knew I liked the New York Central. I bought the postcards. The painting that I liked the best was the A2a Berkshire.
Several years later around 1980 I bought a set of prints of those same P&LE paintings at the Strasburg RR Book Store. I had this print framed.
I knew little of any negative history involved until many years later. I just knew that I liked the look of the locomotive and it said New York Central on the tender. I lobbied for Lionel and MTH to make a model of the A2a and MTH came through. I bought the locomotive before I even had a layout with track radius wide enough to run it.
If I need any more rhyme or reason to like a locomotive, I'm guilty! I don't. And, since I now have a layout that can accommodate an A2a, and since I can't get the DCS system to work on my layout, I would really like a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I can think of nothing more interesting to pull a coal drag on my layout than an A2a Berkshire.
Hope that answers your question. My interest is anything but sudden.
Hey Skip,
They seem to have a unique smokebox (front) that looks a bit chunky. I like the look. What can we say...To each, their own...beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. Hey, I like the look of Pennsy's B6 fleet. So why do we like what we do?
Viva la difference/enjoy.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Tom
I think that is called a “Selkirk” smoke box. JohnA
I think that is called a “Selkirk” smoke box. JohnA
@NYC Fan posted:Beautiful looking locomotive Pat!!!
I have a question maybe you can answer. Since the Commodore Vanderbilt was shrouded in 1934, did they install classification lights on it for running on the mainline? I've never seen a photo of it with class lights. I've seen the similarly shrouded Mercury Pacific with class lights and was wondering about the Commodore.
Skip
Skip, do you know where this picture was taken? I’m wondering if this was taken after the engine was reassigned to the James Whitcomb Riley? On The Big Four it sported classification lights from some of the books I have seen. Great photo - thanks for sharing.
@rjsmithindy posted:Skip, do you know where this picture was taken? I’m wondering if this was taken after the engine was reassigned to the James Whitcomb Riley? On The Big Four it sported classification lights from some of the books I have seen. Great photo - thanks for sharing.
Rob,
I think you may be correct. I think this photo was the James Whitcomb Riley at Kankakee. I believe the photo was colorized incorrectly because the I'm pretty sure the trim and herald on the Riley was red.
@NYC Fan posted:If you're referring to me personally, my interest in the P&LE started when I was around 12 years old in the 1960's when the owner of my hometown hobby shop asked if I was interested in a set of post cards with paintings of the P&LE done by Howard Fogg. He knew I liked the New York Central. I bought the postcards. The painting that I liked the best was the A2a Berkshire.
Several years later around 1980 I bought a set of prints of those same P&LE paintings at the Strasburg RR Book Store. I had this print framed.
I knew little of any negative history involved until many years later. I just knew that I liked the look of the locomotive and it said New York Central on the tender. I lobbied for Lionel and MTH to make a model of the A2a and MTH came through. I bought the locomotive before I even had a layout with track radius wide enough to run it.
If I need any more rhyme or reason to like a locomotive, I'm guilty! I don't. And, since I now have a layout that can accommodate an A2a, and since I can't get the DCS system to work on my layout, I would really like a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I can think of nothing more interesting to pull a coal drag on my layout than an A2a Berkshire.
Hope that answers your question. My interest is anything but sudden.
Hi Skip, no not referring to you. I know you have a MTH P&LE A2a Berk but do recall the first time I saw you post it, you called it a NYC engine instead of P&LE.
I was referring to all the sudden interest in a "NYC" Berk with hopes that Lionel got MTH's tooling for it. This put me in mind of the times took the A2a to the local toy train shop to run on the layout we built there. NYC fans would foam at their mouth saying "never knew NYC had a Berk. Then would say why is it an Army Olive drab paint?! Finally point out it is actually a P&LE A2a New York System Berk and only seven were ever built.
Now growing up with five class 1 roads (Pennsy, NYC, B&O, Erie. and the P&LE ["The Little Giant"] have a small fleet of NYC. Have a Jie Hudson, Dryfuss Hudson, S-1 Niagara, latest addition a 4-6-6T tank engine (came from the B&A, RS-3, U25B. Also have a MTH ALCO PA-1 set round number 4204 which actually was a P&LE passenger engine.
Living at the western terminus point of the P&LE I recall seeing the A2a on the Eastside as a lad in the early 50's.
Like you have picked up book of Fogg post cards (don't know were they are at right now) plus this 64 8-1/2X11 pages by Howard Fogg mostly P&LE the steel mill(many Youngstown) and a few NYC engines.
And a friend knowing I was from Youngstown and a P&LE fan gave me this.
An A2a on a bridge with a steel making furnace in background. The P&LE slogan "Serves the Steel Centers."
Ron
Oh, our Number 9401 A2a has a special red and with nose number board because it was use to pull a special passenger train of P&LE exes.
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@PRRronbh posted:Hi Skip, no not referring to you. I know you have a MTH P&LE A2a Berk but do recall the first time I saw you post it, you called it a NYC engine instead of P&LE.
I was referring to all the sudden interest in a "NYC" Berk with hopes that Lionel got MTH's tooling for it.
Ron,
Personally, my interest is that it is a P&LE Berk and MTH, to my knowledge, only did one run. They are getting expensive on the second-hand market.
So when Skip said:
@NYC Fan posted:I really hope Lionel makes use of the MTH tooling and makes a Legacy version of this locomotive.
I got very confused/excited since I thought I missed a major announcement that I could own a steam engine I always liked but with all the added Legacy goodies.
Above confusion aside, it would be interesting to see who got MTH's Hudsons...
Bryce
@NYC Fan posted:Rob,
I think you may be correct. I think this photo was the James Whitcomb Riley at Kankakee. I believe the photo was colorized incorrectly because the I'm pretty sure the trim and herald on the Riley was red.
I browsed a few pics yesterday of the Mercury. All had no class lights in the pictures. I do know when was dated 1936, but no idea where it was taken as I didn't read that far. Got really busy last night when I should have been winding down. See what tonight brings.
@NYC Fan posted:Rob,
I think you may be correct. I think this photo was the James Whitcomb Riley at Kankakee. I believe the photo was colorized incorrectly because the I'm pretty sure the trim and herald on the Riley was red.
Fellas, remember, there were a few Mercury train sets, the Riley was a separate train set, but used equipment identical to the Mercurys…The central may have swapped around locomotives, as they often did, ….The Riley on its inaugural run in 1941 was considered part of the Mercury family,….so the pic may depict an actual Riley train set, not necessarily a re-assigned locomotive,…..and if indeed this was a “Big Four” roaming locomotive, class lights would have been needed …….clear as mud!…right??…..the Central is a strange beast,….interesting to learn, ….I’m still learning new things…..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Fellas, remember, there were a few Mercury train sets, the Riley was a separate train set, but used equipment identical to the Mercurys…The central may have swapped around locomotives, as they often did, ….The Riley on its inaugural run in 1941 was considered part of the Mercury family,….so the pic may depict an actual Riley train set, not necessarily a re-assigned locomotive,…..and if indeed this was a “Big Four” roaming locomotive, class lights would have been needed …….clear as mud!…right??…..the Central is a strange beast,….interesting to learn, ….I’m still learning new things…..
Pat
Well, I punched in the search James Whitcomb Riley train, and several pictures popped up in the results. First one was a B&W of the one above. All other photos also have that(or similar engine) with class lights. The pics that came up yesterday was under a Mercury train search, which none had class lights. Does this mean that beast is solved, or most likely solved?
@harmonyards posted:Fellas, remember, there were a few Mercury train sets, the Riley was a separate train set, but used equipment identical to the Mercurys…The central may have swapped around locomotives, as they often did, ….The Riley on its inaugural run in 1941 was considered part of the Mercury family,….so the pic may depict an actual Riley train set, not necessarily a re-assigned locomotive,…..and if indeed this was a “Big Four” roaming locomotive, class lights would have been needed …….clear as mud!…right??…..the Central is a strange beast,….interesting to learn, ….I’m still learning new things…..
Pat
Pat, to add to the thread, I pulled out my book, “New York Central’s Mercury” (Richard J. Cook Sr., TLC Publishing 1991).
There is a section devoted to the Riley, and one photo in particular notes ‘ex-Mercury locomotives 4915 and 4917’ in Indianpolis, both with class lights.
Great thread everyone! For what it’s worth, I too hope to see the A2a re-released at some point.
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@rjsmithindy posted:Pat, to add to the thread, I pulled out my book, “New York Central’s Mercury” (Richard J. Cook Sr., TLC Publishing 1991).
There is a section devoted to the Riley, and one photo in particular notes ‘ex-Mercury locomotives 4915 and 4917’ in Indianpolis, both with class lights.
Great thread everyone! For what it’s worth, I too hope to see the A2a re-released at some point.
Good find, which adds fuel to the fire that I had mentioned about the Central always playing musical locomotives,…….probably as Hudsons became more available for Mercury service, the Pacifics were bumped down to Riley, ( which was a lessor train than the Mercurys) and that route being a little less traveled than the lake shore routes, meant the Rileys wore class lights,……the Riley was an coach day train,….no??….I’m not near my books at the moment,..
Pat
The Mercurys were extended into Chicago, from Detroit, through Indianapolis,….yes??….
Pat
Pat, the book includes an advertisement for the Riley noting “New De-Luxe All Coach Streamliner”. The time table notes the Northbound train leaving Cincinnati at 8:15 am and arriving at Chicago Central Station at 12:30 pm EST. Southbound left Chicago at 4:40 pm and arrived at Cincinnati at 10:55 pm.
Probably more information than anyone wanted, but since I had the book handy… 
@harmonyards posted:The Mercurys were extended into Chicago, from Detroit, through Indianapolis,….yes??….
Pat
Pat,
Here's what I've found after a quick search:
"The first Mercury, operating on a daily roundtrip between Cleveland and Detroit, was introduced on July 15, 1936. The Chicago Mercury, between Chicago and Detroit, and the Cincinnati Mercury, between Cincinnati and Detroit, followed. The Mercury's lasted until the 1950s, with the final survivor, the original Cleveland Mercury, making its last run on July 11, 1959.
A fourth train, the James Whitcomb Riley between Chicago and Cincinnati, used the same design for its train sets and is considered part of the Mercury family, although it did not bear the Mercury name. The Riley debuted in 1941 and lasted into the Amtrak era, though no longer a streamliner."
From an odd place, but looks correct in spite of it:
New York Central Mercury Faded Glory | Mohawk Design
Mike
All this Mercury talk makes me wonder. I know 3rd Rail had done one, but from what I had heard it had some issues with it. Did MTH ever do one? The question I'm asking is any Mercury train. I do know that diesels had taken over service for steam, the train name like most I think stuck.
It would be interesting to see any consist whether it be steam or diesel made. I know that the NYC Pacific streamliners aren't as popular as the Pennsy's(waiting for an eruption), but it would be very interesting to see if these would be made. I do believe that if Lionel were to do the Mercury, they would have to do the Pennsy's, and some of the other road names for the streamlined Pacific's, like the Milwaukee Road or um, was it Lehigh? I forget, someone will educate me again.
If Lionel did one it would or should be a new casting for them. While it may resemble those from other roads, no self respecting NYC fan would accept it as a Mercury.
3rd Rails was one of their poorer offerings. First it was diecast, second it has no rear bulkhead, looks like a Post War 221, third the side and mainrods are made of Kraft cheese slices, apologies to Kraft as their cheese is stiffer. It runs OK with the rods straightened. The cars are unique and correct though again not well made with razor thin wire, windows and diaphrams that fall off if you breath on them. Again would require new tooling if someone else were to offer these cars.
Pete
@Norton posted:3rd Rails was one of their poorer offerings. First it was diecast, second it has no rear bulkhead, looks like a Post War 221, third the side and mainrods are made of Kraft cheese slices, apologies to Kraft as their cheese is stiffer. It runs OK with the rods straightened. The cars are unique and correct though again not well made with razor thin wire, windows and diaphrams that fall off if you breath on them.
Pete
Hey Pete,
Thanks for raining so thoroughly on my parade. I purchased both the locomotive and the cars brand new from 3rd rail, have had them ever since, and are quite happy with them, both in appearance and in operation.
On the other hand, in spite of my dedication to them I would agree if the general consensus is that they're 3rd Rail's worst effort ever. Odd?
Mike
I have the set too. They can be made right but out of the box they could have been better. Early releases of most all GGD’s heavyweights were not the best constructed. I know many who sold theirs after tiring of having to make all the repairs.
Pete
I would expect that if Lionel did do a Mercury, that the possibility of a brass hybrid may be the best chance they would have of doing it right. I'm not sure for the K4 Torpedoes if that would be the same type of ideal situation, but what do I know. Either way there is a chance to do a better locomotive. Maybe we can get Pat to make one, lol.
