Opinion on Williams locomotives

hello guys and gals............

That's a really big shame for Bachmann to slowly end the Williams train line as it soon be like postwar lionel of the late 1960's. I have a Williams Geep and still running to this day as I was running it last night and one of my cat "Lucy" was watching it go around and around !!!! LOL. I think Bachmann has too much H.O. and N stuffs out there and its a mistake to slowly kill the Williams line.

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

ALSO, YOU CAN WIRE YOUR LOCOS IN SERIES. THIS MEANS EACH MOTOR WILL SEE HALF THE VOLTAGE. THEY WILL RUN SMOOTHLY AND SLOWLY AND THE HEADLIGHTS AND PASSENGER CAR ILLUMINATION WILL BE BRIGHTER, IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT?

The power kit comes with one of the motors marked with a red dot. That motor goes at what ever end you want the loco to start. If you put the whole thing together and it starts in the wrong direction, you can swap the motor wires. But if you are careful and observant when you put in the power kit, it will start in the direction you want it to start.

because I run my locos at shows, and in one direction and in loops.

I power the dummys and add rectifiers and the go forward only.

I put the powered dummy up front with the powered unit facing reverse

behind it and sequence unti the powered unit goes reverse with the powered dummy

going forward.

zoom zoom

I'm so glad to have discovered this thread.  I've heard about Williams for years yet it seems to me that people only ever talked about Lionel and MTH.  Nowadays, Atlas gets sprinkled into that conversation.  I was at an Indianapolis train show and saw a booth packed with Williams stuff.  I wasn't very hesitant because I had no idea.  Good to know!  Good post.

I bought a C&O 4-6-0 (after purchasing a F7 and a FA1 AA set), and really love the improved gearing.  Williams are such a good value for me that I could not resist a ATSF Berkshire during the blowouts, and just now sprung for a NW J Class at Mario's Trains with a price too good to pass up (this after just springing for some 'introductory to Legacy' equipment).

The Berkshire was the only one that gave me some trouble out of the box, and it turned out to  really be just traction tires.  Other than occasionally having to tweak the POT for TBII or check the grease, I've had no real trouble with any of my Williams engines.  I can't seem to resist the durable, no nonsense, throwback appeal of these conventional engines for the price.  With the new NW J Class that will put me up to 3 steam engines, 2 diesel sets, and Peter Witt Street car.

Looking back I could have bought one nice Legacy steam engine for the price of all my Williams, but with a smaller layout, basic command equipment, and modest plans...Williams fills a great niche for my wants.

Cheers,

Robert

Williams is an awesome line. I have the Southern Pacific GS-4 which I have modified and installed a fan driven smoke unit, an operating Mars light/ and an LED Headlight.  with these modifications this is one heck of an engine. and even with these Modifications I am still under the amount that I would have spent for a Lionel or an MTH

I won't buy another one until they gear em down at the factory.

Williams will give you the best value for any new engine in today's market. You will not get all of the options and latest technology that the high-end Lionel or MTH will provide, but it will be a fraction of the price. If you are looking for an engine that looks good and runs will very few problems at a reasonable price, then Williams is for you.

Agreed.  Think of WBB as combining the quality feel of the best postwar stuff with quiet can motors and electronic reversing units.  If you like postwar style Lionel, want durable, smooth running and don't want to drop big bucks on locomotives that have a 100 hour useable lifespan, other than buying original postwar or some of the nicer MPC remakes, WBB is the way to go.

I had a very negative experience with my Williams S-2 Switcher.  Everyone is right, it was strong and reliable.  But almost too strong.  Even with a 40 car train, the engine would scream around the track too fast.  We would have to lower the voltage somewhere between 8-10 volts.  But when the volts where that low the bell and horn had trouble operating.  The horn and bell operated well only at hight voltages.

I got frustrated with the performance and upgraded it to PS2.  I've been happy with it ever since.

Ron

I did something similar with a set of Williams F-7 A units, one was powered and the other wasn't so I added a set of motors to the second A unit and took out the circuit boards and added bridge rectifiers to them to pull my Santa Fe passenger train. One engine is in forwards and the second is running in reverse with an unpowered F-7 B unit between them, looks good and runs good now that I have four motors pulling the passenger train of six cars.

Lee Fritz

Williams conventional engines are better than any conventional engine Lionel or MTH makes in terms of quality, performance, and price.

End of story.

it does look obvious that bachmann wants to slowly end the williams line.

BUT

I do hear from some of their reps that they want to upgrade their locos with LED lighting and better sound systems.

If thats the case I am for it

As with any business a wait to see what they do attitude will eventually reveal what they are up to.

This industry is stuck between a rock and a hard place given that the life blood of this hobby are the young kids and young families who buy sets for Christmas or as gifts throughout the year.

Then there are Those like us , kids as well as adults that want to make this a hobby.

 the electronic age has brought new challenges for kids attention.

I remember when I played wargames on a cardboard board with little pieces representing armies or military units.

NOW

Kids like my son can engage in full aerial conflict simulations of World War 1 and World War 2 with graphics that are incredibly detailed and accurate.How can I ever get him to play a board game simulation when the computer simulation is like real time??

I hope and want to believe the folks at Bachmann know they have a market where we can have nice quality reliable and pretty good sounding locomotives for a very affordable price.

that is what has drawn me to them. Because they are affordable I have been able to indulge a little more and expand our acquisitions. Something I wouldn t do with the other competitors.

Anyway I am still relatively knew to Williams and as I have been acquiring Williams locomotives and rolling stock I have been pleasantly impressed with the quality, detail and packaging I think WBB seems to be continuing in the trend .

Only time will tell

oh god I hope they do not end it.

if that is true, I am gonna buy a ton more of Williams trains by Bachman, cuz long after my Lionel Legacc, TMCC, and MTH PSx, break from all their funky and delicate electronics, those williams trains will still be running.

what i may have mentioned in another thread.

i dont mind when my 10 year old son is running the Wiliiams engines. they are so well built its like they were made to be handled by young kids.

for instance on the GPs the kids like to grab ahold of the engines with their hands wrapped around the railings and guess what I havent had an issue where I had to reconnect a disconnected railing.

Williams seem to be kid friendly and still look good to us big kids too!!!

They are great! Big, strong well painted and reliable. I own several of them from the late 90's and they run like new. I just picked up the Great Northern steam engine and it is powerful and great looking. I don't think you can go wrong with a Williams product.

Hm..  Well, I hope not!  Would be strange for Bachmann to disband its recent purchase in Williams.  I'll take my shot at it -- I think there are some uncertainties with the economic situation in China in terms of production, so perhaps they are just cutting back to be safe for the time being.  I did email Bachmann about all the discontinued items - particularly the E7's which are really, really sharp and the gentleman assured me they would be back, refreshed with new road names and sound systems at a future time.  I hope he's correct!

Just a follow-up on my J Class N&W Williams engine purchase, and another thumbs up Right out the box, it runs smooth and I'm still pleasantly surprised by the seuthe units on these...just the right amount as they say, and great to run when I don't want to smoke out the room.  Awesome engine and another great deal from Mario's Trains @ $214 shipped (the Romano's are terrific, fast, professional and friendly folks to shop). It's hard to beat the nostalgic, dreadnaught appeal of these pseudo post war classics.

I know there's probably hundreds out there just like this one, so it's not unique or anything, but this one's mine and I'm digging it   So, sorry for all the gushing and superlatives, but I'm a big fan of the WBB offerings.  Hope they continue to stick to their core competencies, and bring us more of these fine products.

Cheers,

Robert

oh oh

Looks like Mario's will get another order from me!!!

I have been purchasing WBB''s from Mario's since the GP-30's came out.Packaging is always topshelf very quick to get product out and great pricing.

I just received the RS-3 SEABOARD from them

After reading this thread I went to Bachman's website and was a bit dismayed to find very little of the Williams line available anymore. If they are indeed phasing Williams out what are the chances that someone like RMT might pick up the line? They already have done a fine job on their 027 streamliners.

Time to get the rumor mill cranking.

Pete

No need to crank up the rumor mill....Bachmann is definitely NOT phasing out the Williams line of products.

If not they are doing a pretty good imitation. One baby hudson and GG1, no Turbines, Berks, 773s, Js,  Budd cars, NW2s, F3s, the list goes on.

Pete

The Williams products are great, reliable , smooth , great pullers , and easy maintenance. Really, what's not to like? We have had many visitors to the layout, Williams trains have been running, and are well received by all!

A word of advice to everyone fretting about the future of the Williams product line: As far as Bachmann's strategy relative to Williams equipment is concerned, "BucksCo" Jack's thread is the only post worth reading. Jack, thanks for injecting some sanity into the midst of this craziness. I can't believe how out of hand some people are getting with their speculation.

Bob

Bob 

Speaking of Williams, anyone have any of their Alco AA's? I know they made several road names for the old Golden Memories series. I know they'll run great. Just wondering about how they look. 

Ok, I admit I must be crazy but do you Bob or Bucksco have any evidence that contradicts the evidence on their website? You know, some kind of insider info?

I have to go now, as Nurse Ratched says its time for my meds.

Pete

Bachmann did not invest millions just to scrap a product line ! They have positioned themselves for growth. WBB has a good following, and will continue to make great conventionally operated products. Almost all problems encountered with our trains are electronic related. Follow the "KISS" rule... Keep It Simple Stupid !

Pete:

Trust me. Take his word for it. As far as the meds are concerned, please save some for me.

Bob

I think what spooks people is that Bachmann dropped almost everything all at once.  If only a few items return to production each year, it will take a long time to see the diversity that once was.  I'm a bit old to wait for that.

It appears that, in the short term at least, the number of new offerings and "upgraded" old offerings will remain quite small.  Last year, the new engine was the RS-3.  The year before that, it was the GP-30.  We'll see if the April TCA presentation brings a flood or a trickle.

Notwithstanding Jack's assurances, we'll see what happens this year, next year, and the year after that.  Time will tell.

Why would it make any sense for WWB to phase out existing expensive tooling, the answer is that it doesn't.  I think it would be great if they added the newer sound system to all there future releases.  Also I would like to see a steam sound system offered.

As far as rolling stock goes they need another caboose and some more variety of road names.  I've read a lot of good comments on the ten wheeler, how about a modernized version.

Bachmann knows it has a winner and a solid loyal customer base with Williams buyers and their Williams line.

It makes sense to me that they needed to pull some models from the 'active" list for refitting and rehabbing. The rep I spoke to told me they want to upgrade their sound systems and change the lights to LED's ALL great and much needed improvements, and perhaps bring on some other road names.

It was because of Williams and their great pricing and impressive quality that allowed me to comfortably get back into the hobby

It's a wait and see for now!!!!

I vote for Williams as a "best buy". Not all the bells and whistles, but good enough for government work.

It appears that, in the short term at least, the number of new offerings and "upgraded" old offerings will remain quite small.  Last year, the new engine was the RS-3.  The year before that, it was the GP-30.  We'll see if the April TCA presentation brings a flood or a trickle.

From the catalog, It appears to be the former K-line GP38.

I am getting in a little late with an Opinion, and that's all it is, Being born in the early 40's, naturally, I grew up with Post War Lionel....Those were such wonderful times, and the Lionel vs American Flyer, Marx, was are greatest challenge...Who had the Hudson, or SANTE FE F3 ABA, OR NEW YORK CENTRAL ABA, Wow...3 Rail, or 2 Rail ....Realism or Toy. From 1949 to 1969, We, fell in Love with the Train Around The Christmas Tree, and yes That New Lionel, American Flyer Catalog!! Yes, and for Christmas, we wanted a favorite engine or Car, or Accessory....WHATEVER---It had to be Related...

In 1970, or close, FUNDIMENTIONS, MPC, General Mills backed this Venture, kept Lionel in the Toy Train Business...Soon to see Trains made to look like Lionel, but IN MY THINKING, Less Quality..Less Detailing on our engines, example, F3 no hole covers on the sides of the engines...Traction tires that were not real Functional, but sounded good..

THEN COMES "Dick Kughn", The MAN THAT SAVED THE HOBBY...Yes, we're it not for this man we would not be discussing WILLIAMS BY BACHMAN, today. 

Now, MIKE WOLF, is to be credited for Leading us to less expensive copies of the Lionel Post War Trains and Accessories...No, he did not copy everyone, but, Mr. Wolf, took a Giant Step, with Imagineering Running our trains with Scale Looking Steamers and Diesels....This started before he left Lionel in the early 1990's...

Then 1994---TRAINMASTER COMMAND Is offered by LIONEL...THIS took on a slow start, but, Everything has to have a Beginning, and this was the start of A New Way To Operate our Trains, walk with them, and enjoy the Realist Whistles, Bells, Crew Talk, Tower Com, Couplers, and Much More to Come....WOW, and This caused Wars between several Companies, TMCC VS DCS.....

NOW, YOU ASK THE QUESTION ARE WILLIAMS, OR WILLIAMS BY BACHMANN Good Trains?

YES AND NO.  HERE IS MY THINKING,

When my age group was growing up, money for a hobby was a little bit hard to come by, so, The desired trains had to wait...Today, many folks by WILLIAMS, ALSO THE EARLIER MTH look a likes, and THEN LIONEL CENTURY CLUB 1...Just Think, These famous Old Engines Made to Run in COMMAND....THE OLD LOOK, THE NEW ELECTRONICS...Now the best of a Both Worlds....

SO, If You like to run trains, Say Conventionally, Williams can be Fun...That's it though, it's only Fun....

HOWEVER, If You like to Run Trains, Have Realistic, Slow Moving Control, Blow The Whistle That Sound So Real that it Brings Tears to Your Eyes, and if You Want to Pull More Cars, and Watch Your Trains Go Through Realistic Scenery, Uncouple at A Fingers tip anywhere on the Layout, THEN WILLIAMS FALLS SOMEWHAT SHORT...

WE CAN EITHER CHANGE OUR HABITS, GO WITH THE NEW, TMCC/LEGACY, AND DCS, OR RUN OUR TRAINS THE OLD FASHIONED WAY...

I do not have any Williams, or MTH, OR Weaver, or Marx...Engines,They are all Good...

I choose Lionel Legacy, and Beyond.....NOW REMEMBER, THIS IS AN OPINION, AND NO MATTER WHETHER ONE LIKES TO BRING BACK THEIR PAST WITH THE POST WAR STYLE ENGINES, OR THE NEWEST STATE OF THE ART ENGINES PRODUCED TODAY, IS UP TO THE OPERATOR OF HIS OR HER DREAM LAYOUT, NO MATTER THE SIZE, ITS YOUR DECISION.

Let's run our trains...Thanks for the question...

That makes sense to me as well M1FredQ.  I think upgrading the steam engines will present the biggest challenge for Bachmann in some respects.  I get the impression the True Blast "Plus" contains some type of speed sensing or load sensing mechanism, as it can vary the rpm's of prime-mover sounds.  I wonder if updating won't entail using more tethers, especially on steam engines (similar to the one used on newer 4-6-0).

One thing for sure, is it would be worth the wait for me if they can reintroduce engines with gearing similar to the ten wheeler.  Love the 10 wheelers ability to run at slower speeds.

I was thinking about the fewer number of some diesel and steam engines in this years catalog when looking over the MTH RTR 2014 catalog.  I noticed they don't have their Santa Fe F3 passenger set listed this time, which I think has been a good seller for them.  I'm sure there are plenty around on store shelves for those who want one, perhaps enough so that it didn't dictate another production run.

Also, a little scarcity doesn't hurt when conditioning folks to slightly higher prices associated with upgrades and improvements.

Cheers,

Robert

PS I'm looking forward to the York announcements from WBB.