Overland loco drivetrain noise

Butch,

I assume your referring to the video posted by Gregg.  If so, that's the original drive, not mine.  The loco was kind of like a lot of us old guys.....lots of various noises emanating from within!  Nope, I think what you're hearing is bolt heads protruding from the clutch hitting it's mount.  That was easy to correct but even after that, there were too many other noises I just couldn't live with.

By the way, what do you think of something like this installed into one of Kelly's nice frames?  No tank drive on that one.  Everything above the floor.

Jay

Mr. Goat,

Might be something we could do. 

Jay

Agreed. Some of my best learning has come from forum posts and yours have been great for proper pickups, smooth drivelines etc. I started out with DCC (Digitrax) in 1994 and have been wrestling with it ever since.   Here's a link with some info about the connection points for keep-alive add-ons. It's about TCS keep-alives on a Tsunami but the theory is the same for the Soundtraxx version:

http://www.members.optusnet.co.../mainnorth/alive.htm 

Cheers,

Pete

Jay,

Yep, that's the noise I was referring too. I knew that wasn't your custom drive as your installations are much cleaner and don't use the clutch mechanism, but Stu worked with what was available at the time and I understand when his clutch drives were working right they were quite good.

Yes, the clutch bolts hitting the mount sounded just like wheel flanges zipping along on track using too small rail. I once tried to run a MG loco on code 100 rail and the faster I ran the faster and louder the zipper sound. Never forget that.

Yeah, I think this would make for a great installation in a Kelly frame using your above floor drive shafts.

butch

Butch,

Kinda like this?

Jay

Two quick questions:  I know you said that the original Sagami motor used by Overland was weak.  Of whose manufacture is the new gearhead motor?  

Also, if this loco is underway at moderate speed and power is suddenly lost, will it coast, or stop dead?  Thanks.

Ted,

For our small to medium power we use Faulhaber gear head motors.  For large power we use Pittman.

The Faulhabers will coast a short distance because of their inherent design but not as much as they would with a flywheel.  The problem for the small & medium Faulhabers is they don't provide as shaft coming out the brushed end of the motor.  If they did, I'd install a flywheel.  With wipers all around losing power is less likely but not impossible with poor or dirty track.  By using the new "Super Capacitors" this is will probably be eliminated completely.....we'll see.

Typically, I'll install the largest flywheel I can on the Pittmans.

Jay, is that Kelly Regan's milled aluminum frame for the RC GP9?

Thx..gregg

Gregg,

Yes, yes it is.

Jay

Kinda like this?

Exactly like that Jay!   Wow !   That is beautiful!!!!   I am so happy with how it looks.... just as I hoped it would Jay. 

butch

It will void the warranty!

Seriously, go for it. Take pictures, makes sketch, do not be afraid to take apart, fix and improve. It is part of the fun! I do it for all my engines.

Yves

Gregg, et al,

Well the decoder showed up today and I just finished installing it.  Loco seems to run just fine to me.  I attempted to capture it running above my workbench.  Luckily, the loco tuns better than my video.

I forgot I had the momentum turned on and ran the loco off the end of the test track.  With a "Keep Alive" it might have been a disastrous mistake.

 http://s601.photobucket.com/us...zpskrycnpkw.mp4.html

  http://s601.photobucket.com/user/jaycriswell/media/2015-02-23%20001%202015-02-23%20003_zpsifa5fxrr.mp4.html

Yes Butch, that's the RC GP9 in back.

Jay

The slow speed performance is great!  The GP-9 looks fantastic. Glad the weights didn't present an unsolvable problem. Very anxious to see it with a shell installed and see how the ride height looks. Nice job all the way around Jay. 

butch

I'm packing up everything so the loco can go home, where it belongs.  Prior to packing it up I took some photos of what's hidden by the tank.

Okay, that's it.  Hopefully, Gregg is happy with the loco.

Jay

Looks good!  Are those purple things in shrink wrap the super duper super capacitors you mentioned?  Thanks again for sharing the detailed photos of this build.

Ted, et al,

You're welcome.  No, what you see is the heat shrink from the manufacturer.  I didn't install the super capacitor.  Two reasons, it will void the warranty and it's not my decoder.  If Gregg has problems with poor pickup we'll first have him clean the track & wheels.  If it continues, and wants to go there, we can look at modifying his decoder.  A last resort if you ask me.

Jay

Just realized that the video file is too big to upload.  Will post it when I get it reduced in file or a link.

 Thanks...gregg

UPADTE - try this video link.

awesome....

Gregg,

Saying thank you for the kind words seems like an understatement.  I was hoping you would provide some feedback but in my wildest dreams I didn't think it would be so glowing.  Again, thanks!  Guess the bar has been raised.

Anyway, I'm really very pleased that you're happy with the outcome.

To be honest here, there are many others that wish I'd finish their projects.  Truth is, your RS just really fired me up.

Jay

My latest update - I tackled wiring the lights to the Tsunami decoder today and re-assembled the engine.  Now we can enjoy the drive rework from Jay and see Bob's beautiful paint job (circa 1989).  The sound is much richer now that the body is in place - and the speaker is right below the fan opening.  Here is a link to the video of it on the test track (your eyes are not deceiving you - the RS11 engine is P:48, but the layout in the background is 3RS - am still in midst of planning P:48 layout so as to not completely eliminate the 3R for the grandkids).

Oh yeah, at full stall, the Faulhaber motor draws 0.55 amp!!  Got to love those things.

Enjoy...gregg

Very beautiful loco Gregg. What a well detailed model and the exceptional paint job just magnifies the detail and beauty of this loco. Now, with Jay's drive it will run as good as it looks. 

butch

When I saw Mt. Dora Shops, I thought of my friend David Eslick.  How many talented O Scalers live in Mt. Dora?

Mt Dora has under 13,000 friendly folks; San Diego has 1.3 million or so.  There are so few O Scalers here that we practically all know each other.

I have a question Gregg,

Even being from MO, I've never been partial to the MoPac's dark blue livery. Your engine looked so different and striking to me, but I think I figured it our after watching a DVD of St. Louis trains today. Was this actually the paint scheme of the Wabash and only the road name was changed to MoPac? I know MoPac took over the Wabash and this paint scheme certainly looks like Wabash.

Butch

Butch,

This is the original Raymond Loewy paint scheme that was applied to MoPac's first diesels in 1939.  From what I understand, switchers were all black.  But passenger and freight diesels received the multi-color Eagle blue/grey/yellow/cream (with some differences).  They all received similar paint schemes at least until 1961, when Downing Jenks became president and, in a cost cutting move, ordered all new diesels and repaints to be done in the single dark blue scheme with 2 end chevrons in white.

As to similarity with Wabash, they are close - am not sure of which came first however.

Here it is applied to a GP.

..gregg

Should have known it was a Raymond Loewy creation as it is beautiful and the nicest MoPac paint scheme I've every seen. That man really had taste...at least about 99% of the time.

Butch

A little thread drift.....a friend sent me a couple of mechanisms to have some wipers added.  Turns out they're for GP 7 or 9s and have KES drives already installed.  It took a lot of work to fit wiper mounts into the trucks but we finally got them done.

The locos run fairly well but the clutches make way too much noise for me and really don't run as well as they would with just large flywheels installed instead of clutches.  Don't get me wrong, the workmanship done by Stu far exceeds anything I'm capable of and I don't pretend that my stuff runs better than his works of art.  I think I had the most fun just admiring his efforts.

The only other issue, for me, is the Pittman motors with Alnico magnets.  If these were mine I'd replace them.

Just for my personal entertainment I've included some photos of an example of the wiper mounts created for this model.  I think a lot of folks think I charge too much to fabricate them.  The truth is, they're a real pain sometimes and not really a money maker.  As an example I probably have four or five hours wrapped up in these examples.

Anyway here's some photos.

Beautiful job Jay. Without good wipers the rest of the project/work goes begging. Installing wipers is an art in itself. Nice job!

Butch

Jay, what are those wiper blocks milled from? Delrin?

Gregg,

Yeppers!  Delrin it is.

Jay

Well, it's not an Overland but I didn't feel like opening a new thread.

Just finished this one. It's a Car Works FM H-16-44. It came with a Weaver drive. The owner wanted a new drive, DCC and concersion to P48. Runs fairly well and draws less the 1/2 amp at full throttle.

I installed a new Faulhaber gear head motor.  The gear head has a 14:1 reduction and is a planetary type.  Everything beyond the gear head is 1:1.  All bearings, including the axle journals, are ball bearings. It has an HO Tsunami decoder, it doesn't need anything larger because at full throttle it draws less than 1/2 an amp.  This particular model was converted to P48.

The bottom two attachments are actually videos. If you click on the picture you may get a video. Since I really don't know what I'm doing when I try to create the videos it's kind of a crap shoot! Hope they work.

Jay

They work fine - nice work as usual!

Thanks Gregg.

Jay

Very nicely done Jay.  Nice attention to detail, e.g. the grommet for the electrical pickup wires through the chassis to the trucks and the notch with the cover plate on the side of the motor riser stand to secure the wire bundle.  I need to make some risers myself to keep the truck pickup wires from rubbing on the flywheel on some Overland drives.

Scott K.

Austin, TX

Impressive work Jay!

Thanks for the compliments.  Every time I do one of these I try to improve.  Wiring management is something I need to work on.

Jay