P48 L.A.& S.L. Union Pacific 2-8-0 Custom Built

"If it wasn't for the Protocraft flextrack and the prebuilt turnouts you wouldn't see me going there.  It's picky, no doubt about that."

 

  I wouldn't worry about the flange size if you really want to go with P48. HO trains run fine with flanges about the same size as P48 and N trains run just as well on even smaller flanges, and those scales do it with less mass which means less tracking downforce. I think the small flange problem is mostly a myth passed along by those who've never tried it and it's certainly nothing that a little care in track laying can't eliminate. For those starting a new layout the only real downside to P48 is the extra cost it takes to replace all the wheels on a large fleet of equipment, you end up paying twice for the wheel sets and P48 wheels sell at a premium to O wheels so it's not possible to come out even by selling your O gauged wheels. Protocraft flextrack would save a lot of hand lay time and labor but I'd build my own turnouts since commercial ones cost a lot more than the materials it takes to build one. Hand laying 3 feet of track won't save you much over buying flextrack but hand laying one foot of turnout will save you plenty .  If you doubt your turnout building skills and want the best reliability you can solder the turnout rails to PC board ties spaced every 4th tie or so then nothing can move out of gauge, the wooden ties are just along for the ride :> .....DaveB

I haven't found a stock .145 wheel that fits through my RoW code 125 railbound frogs without narrowing the width of the flange.

 

Guys,

 

This thread seems all over the place so I don't think this can hurt much.

 

When I got into 0 scale from 3 rail I heard all of the stories about how my trains were never going to stay on the track and on and on. Well, crype, the stories got into my head a little. I was up in the air about P48 at the time and I went with regular 0.

 

The fact is, I don't have derailments on my layout AT ALL with many treads at 145. By accounts of some local P48 modelers I could have done well in P48. 

 

People seem too put too much emphasis on what those who CAN'T seem to make things work with their wheels, track and otherwise on their layouts have to say. I've found that if I listen to, and follow the people who DO make things work, I've always made it to where I needed to be. People question their abilities too much instead of practicing and learning. I know I did the same. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"This thread seems all over the place so I don't think this can hurt much."

 

  Just the opposite it might help folks understand they could run this P48 loco if they like it.......DaveB

I don't want any bashing on my thread if I can have any say; that was the purpose of my post. It does seem to occur anytime anyone brings Key Model's over the top toys into any subject.

I have around 35 hand laid turnouts on branch line and yard tracks using code 125 ROW bolted frogs  and guard rails and  haven't had issues running a wide array of trucks through them with properly gauged .145 wheel sets.  The back to back clearances are very tight and the turnouts did require extra care when being laid.

 

Ed

Even here thread drift seems permissible.  Once a thread starts, it no longer "belongs" to the original poster.  I see no Key bashing at all in this thread.

 

Plenty of folks are making Proto-48 work flawlessly.  As Christopher says, it just requires more attention to detail.  I am very much in favor of the idea, just not a good enough mechanic.

Bob,

 

It's not an issue of your abilities.  If you wanted to do it you would.  Simply stated, it's not important to you so you don't pursue it.  Ability & personal preferences are two, totally separate issues here.

 

Probably the closest I've ever come to complimenting you in public, huh?

 

Jay

Bob,  Jay C is right, you could do p48 if you wanted.  When I decided to become a scratch builder, I thought about p48.  Everything I had would have to be converted.  Converting a steam locomotive is a big project.  Steam chest will have to be sectioned along with the valve motion hangers, frame is too wide, can't be wide and narrow at the same time.  At that time there was no ready to lay track, no switches, limited styles of trucks, etc.  And after all that, where do you sell p48?  An idea whose time came too late - too much OWG already out there.  Anybody with a p48 collection to sell will find a very limited market, OWG , no problem.

Well, the gauge is obviously important to me.  That is why I have a 1 1/8" loop, and it is why I model mostly in 17/64.  I converted my first Diesel (All Nation F-7) and first steamer (Lionel 763) to 1 1/8" gauge in 1958 and 1960.  My freight cars got flanges reduced to little nubs.  The tread stayed .172, and I have no problems with derailments.

 

Yes, I have the skill to put four spikes per tie in to trackwork.  No, I do not want to.

 

I personally believe that narrow treads and fine scale flanges will only work reliably on the best track possible - I have thought about how HO survives with the same width wheel, but I am not sure that kind of comparison is definitive.  HO wheel treads would fail miserably on 7 1/2" gauge.  I don't have a good reason why - one can hold track of any gauge to the same tolerance.

 

I think Proto-48 and 3-rail scale are two of the best things to happen to 1/4" scale in the last three decades.  Keep doing it.  I shall keep doing what I like to do - building big brass cab forwards with cast iron drivers, and flying antique airplanes.

 

For Harmon - Proto-48 will often be possible without major frame or cylinder work.  My 763 had no modifications to the frame and cylinders at all, and it is almost a full 1/16" narrower.

I've got some Protocraft P:48 flex track on the way and already have one of Bill McConnell's code 125 P48 turnouts (bolted frog).  It sounds like the tread width problem becomes moot with the stable gauge of flex track, and those P:48 flange ways on turnouts are to die for.

 

Erik, what minimum radius would this 2-8-0 negotiate?  I'm in initial planning stages and it looks like 58" would be easily doable for this transition era switching layout, maybe even a bit more.

Also, I have a bolted frog, but am not quite sure what the difference is with a rail bound frog.  Is it appearance only, or is there a functional difference? Thanks...gregg

Railbound frogs are a casting that has a floor to minimize the drop as the wheel transits the crossover.  The wheel rides on the flange for that brief time.  The guards and guideways are also kept narrower to reduce side sway.  Reduces wheel and frog wear on high speed routes in addition to a smoother ride.  I don't know when they came into use but they are a relatively modern, 1950s? maybe, invention.

 "I don't know when they came into use but they are a relatively modern, 1950s? maybe, invention."

 

   I think they've been around longer than that. When I was a kid in the mid 50's the SP's cast frogs looked like they'd been in use for quite a while already......DaveB

bob2,  I've never seen a steam locomotive that, without changing steam chest, etc.,could be correct for p48 and owg at the same time.  Went to a p48 roundtable and an 0-6-0 was passed around that had been "converted".  Sure enough, turned upside down and the main rods were splayed outward to the cylinders.  Not acceptable to me.

It sure does. =)

Those are great photos~!

 

Lost track of this thread-did we ever find out who built the wonderful 2-8-0?

It goes both ways, too. I've heard plenty of 3-rail type mocking people into other O scale pursuits...

Thanks guys-

Hey it's confirmed the P48 unit featured in this thread is for sale needs an adoptive home. If your interested please let me know. It also includes an OMI matching brass caboose in P48 with Clouser couplers.

I like all model trains. It's a great hobby!

I buy the elite in the following scales:

1 or 1/32 European
O or 1/48 US
O or 1/48 US P-48
O or O Gauge 3 rail
O or O 3rail Scale
Z or 1/220 European
HOM Bemo European
OM or 1/45 European Narrow Gauge
On3 or 1/48 US Narrow Gauge
HO or 1/87 US (only brass unique items)

I love it all

Apparently so as it's on eBay now....although there is an adoption fee involved,

As I mentioned, one of my favorite locomotives--but between the adoption fee and housebreaking the darned thing...

 

I would think that a p48 loco would be a mighty tough sell to a pretty narrow market.

 

Jeff C

This is a nice looking engine, but as new 2 Railer, is there an easy method to determining the minimum radius a locomotive can make?  I would presume that the limiting factor is the number of driving wheels, as opposed to the leading or trailing wheels.  e.g., I'm planning 54" minimum radius - is it realistic to expect 8 drivers to facilitate those curves?

 

 "I'm planning 54" minimum radius - is it realistic to expect 8 drivers to facilitate those curves?"

 

   From what I've seen running  that should be fine( just to be clear we are talking about 54 inch radius and not O-54 curves?). You might have to work on the leading or trailing trucks if they hang up on their mount or on nearby details. If you are using normal width O scale wheel treads you can gauge the tracks to the wide side of the gauge specs on curves to decrease driver binding .....DaveB

Thanks Dave, that is very helpful as I begin to look at steam engines.  Yes, the 54" is radius, not diameter.  Im modeling a portion of the M-I which ran 2-8-0's primarily, so I wanted to be sure they would work.

 

Will be attending OSW in a few weeks, so hopefully will see a wide variety of these beauties (and help me decide once and for all whether I go with Ow5 or P:48).

 

First pass no bids.  Re- posted at the same price?  Will we be seeing this fine model on eBay for a while?  Come on, guys, this is only five Parri hoppers worth.  Isn't your trustee cooperating?

speaking of Parri, I have what I think is a Parri gon. how can I tell for sure.

       
       


I lowered it $1995

"Will be attending OSW in a few weeks, so hopefully will see a wide variety of these beauties (and help me decide once and for all whether I go with Ow5 or P:48)."

 

   You should be able to get lots of great advice there. If you see something you like be specific about asking the seller if it will run on 54 inch radius. Rod Miller that runs the show is one of the greats when it comes to O loco builders so the show attracts an experienced group. If you are not totally vested in O scale be sure to look at the S scale options, 54 inch radius is a lot wider for S locos and I've seen some neat S scale  2-8-0's ........DaveB

Bob

 

One way to identify a Bob Parri built car is by its heft. This was no accident.  The sides of a Parri gondola  were built with double wall construction so he could emboss rivets facing both ways. The Parri G22's have  inside rivets aligned with the outside ribs,  Koh's G22 does not!  Both are very nice models. I wonder if I could resurrect our old OGR Parri thread for this info as many of the new O scalers may not be aware of his work.

 

Ed Rappe

 

I wonder if it would have sold if it was standard O scale?

       
       



Me too.

Well, every time I assert that the market for these really pricey items is limited, I get blasted.  Two grand for a Consolidation is quite high, even for a perfect one.  That said, I sold a model for $ in that range about a decade ago - a guy just had to have it, and I wanted time and materials.  Maybe there is someone who will just have to possess this beauty?

Erik,  What category is it listed under?

 

Thans,  Harmon

Harmon click on this:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?na...=web&id=141541712435

Looking at the model on Ebay is like going to a museum.  Stunning model.  One of a kind.  A guy could start with that engine and build a serious P48 layout around it.   Good price.  Small market??

I would buy it in a heartbeat if it were regular O and could do this!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaqYbnZpgJM

 

36" S curve.

 

Peter

Thanks, Erik. I watch ebay but would not have seen your model for sale except for your email. Without sounding too dumb, what category on ebay is it listed under?

 

I had for the last 2 rounds maybe 21 watchers; typical for a model like this. Its not really a U.S. Hobbies anymore. Maybe 3% of it. ;-)

Other instead of brass?  I would have never found it either.  Who looks in other?  I never look in that category, too long and all over the place.  On the other hand I do look at the brass category 3 or 4 time a week.  Someone had a nice OMI GP40 painted in Chessie in other for months and months for a decent price before it just disappeared.