POLL...Ready made trucks with kaydee couplers is thier a market. Would you buy?

Guys, micro trains sells this type of item for nscale cars and they work quite well. I realize atlas tried this in o guage,but there design was not the best. As you know I have been testing this and it works if done right. Albeit it has some quirks, but it works a lot better than the lobster claws. In ho everything comes with kds now. 

If there was a massed produced affordable line of trucks with the kayee's already mounted on them that really worked well. Just remove the stock trucks and place the kaydee trucks on your car. How many people here who wish to have fully functioning kds on thier cars,but have small layouts would buy such a product? Would there be a market for such a product?

 

 

 

Roger glasgo

Original Post

No, I have a few reasons for not wanting Kadees even though they may look better and perhaps even work better. They are: My car fleet is too large to convert, the cost would be insane. I already have the Lionel electromagnets installed, and finally, even though my track work is pretty good, there are still a number of places where cars may come uncoupled due to height issues or vertical anomalies.

P.S. The horn hooks in HO and the Rapidos in N were a lot worse than the "lobster claws" in 3 rail O. They may be ugly, but they function well enough.

First, I'm not a Kadee user, so I wouldn't purchase these.

Second, I thought one of the big points of Kadees were that they were body-mounted and not truck-mounted?

Third, how would you ever account for a truck design that fits all the different ride heights, bolster designs, and mounting methods for existing rolling stock from different manufacturers? There's not a truck that can come close to doing that now, with or without Kadee couplers.

Fourth, how would you "mass produce" all the different truck styles -- friction bearing, roller bearing, leaf spring, etc. -- that people would want?

What you're asking is simple, but the reality you're proposing is at least $300k investment in design, tooling, marketing and inventory to get off the ground. The market would have to be gigantic to get anywhere near the "affordable" price you propose.

TRW

Actually, you have hit the nail on the head but are using the wrong hammer.  Add the draft boxes and couplers in with the cars. Keep the trucks as they are. Kadees have better coupling performance that nobody will recognize until they use them.

Ever try to couple a K-line car to a Lionel car, or Menards? they sometimes need a whip lash force if they couple at all.  

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Big_Boy_4005 posted:

No, I have a few reasons for not wanting Kadees even though they may look better and perhaps even work better. They are: My car fleet is too large to convert, the cost would be insane.  even though my track work is pretty good, there are still a number of places where cars may come uncoupled due to height issues or vertical anomalies.

 

+1.   I don't wan't or need Kadee's whether they are truck or body mounted.    In addition for me,  99% of my train running is in a modular club situation.

Nick

USAF Security Service 1967-1971,  US Army Corps of Engineers Pittsburgh District 1993-2012,  Pittsburgh Independent Hi-Railers

I'll go one better...  I'd be a buyer if Kadee would start making quality O scale (O2R and O3R) die cast trucks.   In fact, I wish they'd somehow acquired the old Weaver truck tooling and kept it going....with their improvements. 

Since their release of a series of trucks for the Large Scale market a couple years ago,  I've resumed dreaming of the day they'd serve the O scale market.  Alas, they don't express a lot of positivity to the suggestions, though.

Then, if truck-mounted couplers are a preference, they'd be dandy, I'm sure.

KD

Hot Water posted:

Not for me, as I prefer to body mount all my Kadee couplers for a more prototypical appearance and closer coupling.

I'll second that.  No interest in truck mounted Kadees

Replace entire trucks? Gott'a be costly! I'm a fanatic on K-Ds and do ALL my cars . . . but replacing the trucks on everything seems way too expensive . . . and just flat-out unnecessary. If Lionel continue to make converting as easy as their new PS-1 freight cars, I'll be perfectly content. 

Great comments so far guys. I understand where most are comming from here. Let me just say while most here are 3 rail scale guys that body mount there kds. Yes they look better and are more prototipical. What about the majority of operators who would like to have the great uncupling the kds offer,but dont have the space for a large basment empire with 072 and 080 curves nessesary to go the body mounted route. What is a good solution for the 036 and 042 operator who wishes to have lots of switching on his small layout and would like to do it with kds that perform much better vrs the old slam and bang lobster claw. Yes I realize that truck bolsters vary greatly from one manufacturer to another. Also there are a variety of truck styles to be modelled. My feelings on this is why should the 3 rail scale guys have all the fun while the lionchief plus 036 crowd be left out. What would be a doable solution for the crowd who wants kds and what they offer,but can only have small radius curves? 

Roger glasgo

PRR Bruce posted:

Lobster claw for all my rolling stock. If I was doing 3 rail scale or 2 rail O Gauge, then I would consider Kaydee couplers.

My HO fleet (larger than my O collection and I still own it) was all Kadee equipped but cost and time keep me from considering them on the O 3r fleet.  

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

Guys, micro trains sells this type of item for nscale cars and they work quite well. I realize atlas tried this in o guage,but there design was not the best. As you know I have been testing this and it works if done right. Albeit it has some quirks, but it works a lot better than the lobster claws. In ho everything comes with kds now.

 

 

 

Just a couple of points, one a clarification and the other a correction.

N scale manufacturers now use knuckle couplers for all American prototype trains. The switch from Rapido couplers began 20 years ago on new stock. So isn’t just in HO.

HO locomotives and rolling stock do not all use Kadee couplers. They all use knuckle couplers, often of the manufacturer’s own design. The patent on Kadee’s design expired years ago, opening the door for other manufacturers to produce their own and finally replace the hated X2f horn-hook couplers.

In either scale, manufacturers save money doing this by not having to support the profit margin of a third party making couplers.

As for O gauge, you can’t ignore the fact that each manufacturer’s freight cars are different enough to require a third-party firm to have to design and tool up for more truck versions than would be necessary in either N or HO scale. And O gauge is considered the third most popular scale, behind HO and N (at least in terms of number of hobbyists) and O gauge is split by those who prefer scale equipment and those who prefer traditional toy train models. So the economics don’t support the idea of such a venture.

Add to that the number of people on this forum who prefer body-mounted Kadee couplers and you have an even more limited market.

Body-mounted Kadees make sense. Truck-mounted ones are highly unlikely. So you might as well proceed toward body mounting if it is Kadee couplers you want on your equipment.

Jim R. 

A big no from me.

 

 

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No. Even if the Kadees will couple to the Lionel-type knuckles, I would rather have a consistent look across all my trains, and I am not interested in retrofitting everything I have, not to mention everything I will buy in the future. Coupling performance of newer rolling stock is indeed poor, but I would just as soon tinker with the couplers that are already there.

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