Saw this today, apologize if it has already been posted. A direct rail route to Alaska?
Alaska A2A
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Now that is interesting. Had not heard anything about this.
This idea has been kicked around on and off since about 1890.
I would like to see the proposed route - I can understand why they would say to this company "show me". The answer is probably the same as it always was - nature or the geography wins - can't get there from here
I wish them well, but I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe they will build the Baring Strait Tunnel, while they're at it. That would be something else wouldn't it, a rail route all the way from Canada to Russia?
And here I was thinking the big news was that Hunter Harrison was coming back from the dead to implement PSR on the Alaska Railroad. 😏
Curt
juniata guy posted:And here I was thinking the big news was that Hunter Harrison was coming back from the dead to implement PSR on the Alaska Railroad. 😏
Curt
LOL!
That would mean the Kiss of Death...TWICE!
An ambitious project and I wish them success as it will (in theory) dramatically improve transportation logistics to/from Alaska. Hopefully they'll double or triple-track it all the way out.
I'm a bit concerned about PTC operating in the middle of nowhere. What could possibly go wrong? I ride Metrolink to/from work and we get a PTC activation about once a month--none anywhere near a signal (it happened twice while we were moving out from the boarding tracks at LAUPT). The train sits for between five a fifteen minutes while the system reboots. On one occasion, they couldn't get it restarted and we had to board a later train (good thing were were still in the terminal at the boarding tracks). I don't know how it's tripped, but I'd be very nervous about PTC out in the location where the proposed route is going.
Not being familiar with the area, would it be feasible to run the route in the vicinity of the ALCAN. Just wondering.
I can see it now on History: Ice Road Truckers, A2A. Truckers bring construction equipment and supplies for the new railroad at the top of the world.
juniata guy posted:And here I was thinking the big news was that Hunter Harrison was coming back from the dead to implement PSR on the Alaska Railroad. 😏
Curt
I was thinking the same thing Curt. 
honest
The value will be in the ROW. They intend to pull a fiber optic line through the route. Internet at the speed of light for Northwest territories. The bears can't wait.
Are the Inuit into it?
I wonder if it could generate enough traffic to pay for itself.
prrjim posted:I wonder if it could generate enough traffic to pay for itself.
Probably, given the logistics in getting stuff up to Alaska now. The big question is can they operate year round?
It’s a pipe dream - just like the Alaska Natural Gas Pipeline. Waiting to unload the barge.
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To be honest, I didn't even realize that the Alaska railway system was not connected to Canada's. I guess the question is given Alaska's relatively small population, does a rail link make sense? The oil from Alberta could be one factor (allowing it to get to Alaskan ports and shipped all over the world, for example), or oil from Alaska shipped down to the states via Canada, but it raises questions about viability and cost of shipping, the weather in Alaska and northern Canada has to make operations expensive, I have seen some of the programs about the Alaska railroad on Discovery and the History Channel, looks pretty tough. On the other hand, from what I hear shipping on the roads in Alaska is no picnic either, and it has to be pretty expensive to ship things to Alaska via truck or the other way round.
To be honest I am a bit dubious, from what I have seen with the Alaska railway it is pretty heavily subsidized by the state of Alaska, and I don't know if a private enterprise could build such a line , have to pay off the cost of construction assuming they use bonds, pay for maintenance, and be able to ship at a competitive cost to other methods of shipping, which also would assume enough traffic to warrant it. Given all the factors, the relatively low population in Alaska, the cost of building it through rugged territory, the weather and its impact on operations, just doesn't seem viable to me.
AGHRMatt posted:prrjim posted:I wonder if it could generate enough traffic to pay for itself.
Probably, given the logistics in getting stuff up to Alaska now. The big question is can they operate year round?
Why not ? Alaska RR and Northern Alberta have been operating in that climate for about 100 years.
bigkid posted:To be honest, I didn't even realize that the Alaska railway system was not connected to Canada's. I guess the question is given Alaska's relatively small population, does a rail link make sense? The oil from Alberta could be one factor (allowing it to get to Alaskan ports and shipped all over the world, for example), or oil from Alaska shipped down to the states via Canada, but it raises questions about viability and cost of shipping, the weather in Alaska and northern Canada has to make operations expensive, I have seen some of the programs about the Alaska railroad on Discovery and the History Channel, looks pretty tough. On the other hand, from what I hear shipping on the roads in Alaska is no picnic either, and it has to be pretty expensive to ship things to Alaska via truck or the other way round.
To be honest I am a bit dubious, from what I have seen with the Alaska railway it is pretty heavily subsidized by the state of Alaska, and I don't know if a private enterprise could build such a line , have to pay off the cost of construction assuming they use bonds, pay for maintenance, and be able to ship at a competitive cost to other methods of shipping, which also would assume enough traffic to warrant it. Given all the factors, the relatively low population in Alaska, the cost of building it through rugged territory, the weather and its impact on operations, just doesn't seem viable to me.
It seems to me that the traffic potential of Alaska itself has not much to do with the economics of this route. It's essential purpose is to take the place of a pipeline that is no being built for purely political reasons.
As an investor, I'd stay far away from it because of that political risk. If Canada were to overcome it's political/environmental problems and build the pipeline, that railroad would be in bankruptcy pretty soon.
The populated areas of Alaska are well served by railroad car ferries.
AGHRMatt posted:An ambitious project and I wish them success as it will (in theory) dramatically improve transportation logistics to/from Alaska. Hopefully they'll double or triple-track it all the way out.
I'm a bit concerned about PTC operating in the middle of nowhere. What could possibly go wrong? I ride Metrolink to/from work and we get a PTC activation about once a month--none anywhere near a signal (it happened twice while we were moving out from the boarding tracks at LAUPT). The train sits for between five a fifteen minutes while the system reboots. On one occasion, they couldn't get it restarted and we had to board a later train (good thing were were still in the terminal at the boarding tracks). I don't know how it's tripped, but I'd be very nervous about PTC out in the location where the proposed route is going.
There is an important technical point that is being overlooked in these worries about PTC. Adopting a new set of computer software to an extensive and complicated existing system, our railroad system in the 48 states, is a hazardous undertaking. When the control technology is part of the basic design of the system, PTC shouldn't be difficult.
Does Transport Canada require PTC?
Hey Farmer Bill....I can't say if the Inuit are into it, but I'llaska ....maybe someone will know, and watch out where the Huskies go!
Dominic Mazoch posted:Does Transport Canada require PTC?
Not yet...
Curt
Dominic Mazoch posted:Does Transport Canada require PTC?
A long part of the line is in the U.S.
With PTC, they should not need lineside signals or wire circuits along the line. big capital and maintenance saving there. All communication could be wireless by design.
Malcolm Laughlin
I bet the environmentalist go nuts.
mlaughlinnyc posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Does Transport Canada require PTC?
A long part of the line is in the U.S.
With PTC, they should not need lineside signals or wire circuits along the line. big capital and maintenance saving there. All communication could be wireless by design.
Malcolm Laughlin
Two issues:
All wireless can be hacked or jammed. (Can happen in lower 48.)
How about GPS coverage that far north?
mlaughlinnyc posted:
bigkid posted:
To be honest, I didn't even realize that the Alaska railway system was not connected to Canada's. I guess the question is given Alaska's relatively small population, does a rail link make sense? The oil from Alberta could be one factor (allowing it to get to Alaskan ports and shipped all over the world, for example), or oil from Alaska shipped down to the states via Canada, but it raises questions about viability and cost of shipping, the weather in Alaska and northern Canada has to make operations expensive, I have seen some of the programs about the Alaska railroad on Discovery and the History Channel, looks pretty tough. On the other hand, from what I hear shipping on the roads in Alaska is no picnic either, and it has to be pretty expensive to ship things to Alaska via truck or the other way round.
To be honest I am a bit dubious, from what I have seen with the Alaska railway it is pretty heavily subsidized by the state of Alaska, and I don't know if a private enterprise could build such a line , have to pay off the cost of construction assuming they use bonds, pay for maintenance, and be able to ship at a competitive cost to other methods of shipping, which also would assume enough traffic to warrant it. Given all the factors, the relatively low population in Alaska, the cost of building it through rugged territory, the weather and its impact on operations, just doesn't seem viable to me.
It seems to me that the traffic potential of Alaska itself has not much to do with the economics of this route. It's essential purpose is to take the place of a pipeline that is no being built for purely political reasons.
As an investor, I'd stay far away from it because of that political risk. If Canada were to overcome it's political/environmental problems and build the pipeline, that railroad would be in bankruptcy pretty soon.
The populated areas of Alaska are well served by railroad car ferries.
Viability is certainly a question based on population, however pipelines don’t move durable goods, mining equipment, fresh vegetables, or people. I think if such route existed and ran efficiently, the potential for shorter over water routes for goods from over seas could keep it in the money for a long time. The ports of southern Alaska could see a huge boom.
Dominic Mazoch posted:mlaughlinnyc posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Does Transport Canada require PTC?
A long part of the line is in the U.S.
With PTC, they should not need lineside signals or wire circuits along the line. big capital and maintenance saving there. All communication could be wireless by design.
Malcolm Laughlin
Two issues:
All wireless can be hacked or jammed. (Can happen in lower 48.)
How about GPS coverage that far north?
GPS is a global system operated by the U.S. Air Force. The system is designed so that at least four satellites are visible at least 15 degrees above the horizon from any point on earth.
The probability of a catastrophic failure due to hacking is infinitesimally small. In theory it is possible to hack a system and induce a spurious signal that might cause a wreck. In practice, there are so many pieces of carefully guarded encrypted knowledge that would be needed from many places that such a problem isn't going to keep anyone from using wireless technology.
Farmer_Bill posted:Are the Inuit into it?
The Inuit are perplexed as to what a railroad is, Is it edible?, can it bring Jack Daniels to them, then No to it unless it can fit their needs. The Polar Bears on the other hand are for it totally, seems the Inuit population has been going down the last century since the Russians left and they are hungry!
