Protecting the Equipment via UPS Battery Back Up for system electronics

Kris- Any good UPS unit should handle what you want to do. It is actually a good idea given the amount of sensitive electronics in modern trains and equipment. The units are sized in VA (volt-amps or watts). The higher joule rating translates to higher spike protection.

You can also add TVSS (surge protection) to your main panel if you feel it would be worth it.

Kris, Just be careful on the ground connection for TMCC/Legacy. 

Nick

Kris, there are at least two types of UPS systems. One that will come on when there is a power failure and therefore is in standby mode, the other is a system where the UPS is actually outputing power all the time via the batteries and they are constantly being charged.  This later is preferred in the data processing business as there is no cut over time from outlet power to battery backup.  I'd prefer this design as the equipment you're using,  never knows a power outage occurs.  Naturally, this later system is a little more expensive.  Therefore, you'll need to decide your threshold of pain.

Steve

A UPS is not worth the money. Since most of the sensitive equipment is powered through a wall wart is a TMCC and/or Legacy base that should be be enough protection for power surges. Unless of course if you have nothing else to worry about during a power outage and you want to run trains during the outage.  The real problem is in the electronics in our Locomotives.  There TVSS are very necessary on the track side of the transformers.  I just use an industrial surge suppressor powerstrip from Triplite.  As above make sure the ground in the surge suppressor is continuous.  Use the money you save on new traction or rolling stock.

Also, as long as you are running a new circuit to your layout, I might suggest using 12/2 and a 20 Amp breaker in your distribution box. The extra capacity especially if you are using a number of transformers, ie one for accy's, one for switch power, one for powering your TMCC/Legacy controllers and two or three for powering track blocks.  Also put a light indicator switch in line.  One thing I do before heading up the stairs is check that light to make sure everything is off.  Also, unless your heavy into cordless tools, put some outlets around the table beats tangled extension cords.  Also if you buy Menards buildings they are powered through a wall wart that needs to be plugged into 120.

Dear All

Thanks for the advise and tips on this issue.

Dear RSJB

Thanks for the info. The main panel is in the house and the layout is in the garage so the TVSS (surge protection) would not work in this application. As a surge inside the house bypass the main panel TVSS could in theory, cause a surge in the garage. I would like to get TVSS protect as close as possible to the layout. Thanks to you I have learned something new "joule rating". Now I have a better idea of what I am looking at in regards to protection.

Dear Nick

I have read about surge protector and TMCC/Legacy not playing well together. I was hoping to use the a bus bar from the ground to run a green wire around individual tracks the prevent the TMCC/Legacy issue.

Dear Steve

Thanks for the quick info, I had no idea that there were two types of different UPS. This will require more research on my part to see what will fit in my budget and the power requirements.

Dear Jim

Which industrial surge suppressor powerstrip from Triplite would you recommend? I need at least 8 outlets min for this layout. I have look at their product line but have no clue as to what I am looking for in protection for this layout.

Thanks for the info. The main panel is in the house and the layout is in the garage so the TVSS (surge protection) would not work in this application. As a surge inside the house bypass the main panel TVSS could in theory, cause a surge in the garage. I would like to get TVSS protect as close as possible to the layout. Thanks to you I have learned something new "joule rating". Now I have a better idea of what I am looking at in regards to protection

Matches what the electrician told me when he installed a whole house surge protector in my main panel. Also various articles I've read. He recommended using local surge protectors wherever possible. I still wanted the whole house protector for my major appliances.

hi one thing people don't realize is the  cheap electrical strip you buy in some stores have a surge protector across the ac but a cheap surge protector is only good for one application of a surge ounce that opens up the surge protector the surge goes straight threw the terminal  power strip and into your equipment !

if I were concerned about interruption of power surge then I would use a battery backed up ups system they are around $200,00 or less depending where you buy them from!

Alan

Dear Alan and CW Burfle

I am slowly getting rid of the plastic surge protectors and going with high quality surge protect one at a time for all my equipment. When I lived in White Plains one of the pole transformers blew  due to a lighting strike and you could hear the surge. Since then I have replaced almost all of the surge protector on my equipment.  Now I am looking getting a good one for my train equipment. If any one has any suggestions I will look into it, right now I am going with the Tripp lite iso bar surge protect with the on/off switch. https://www.tripplite.com/isob...-master-switch~IB8RM

I am mistaken.  I am only using a power strip again the wall warts should protect for power surges and all my transformers are plugged in to this device.  When you look at everything, they are all inductive loads which have a tendency to minimize power surges.

The unit I have is a Tripp Lite UL800CB-15. 

Two features I like of this device is the separation of the outlets, good for wall warts and two an external lug that is a ground lug.  My plan was to use this to run a ground wire between tracks to minimise the corruption of the Legacy Signal from parallel tracks.  I never wired it up for that feature.

UPS units are not that expensive, on sale from CDW I picked up units that are rated around 1200 watts for like 90 bucks on super sale. I can't speak to Legacy having problems (though to be honest, I don't think that will be a problem with the UPS, if the UPS unit is grounded to the outlet via a three prong plug and the wiring in the house is good, I don't think that will be a problem, there should be continuity between the legacy ground via its plug and the wall). 

The best UPS units are continuous, where the outputs are powered by the batteries working through an inverter, partly because if power drops there is no time lag to cut in, but also because with the battery in the circuit you are pretty much totally isolated from power drops and surges. The power in my house was really, really bad in recent years (it has improved), we had a lot of brownouts and power cut out/ins, when I looked at the power coming into the house it was ranging from 105 to 140 volts. I kept losing devices like routers and cable modems and the like, so I put my stuff on UPS and since then have had no problems.  The UPS units also have outputs that are not battery backed but offer surge protection so you don't have to have everything on the battery back up if you want to reserve that for critical stuff.  I wouldn't bother with a post war transformer, but I certainly would with a modern transformer/power brick or the power for legacy and DCS, it isn't to protect the track power, rather it is to protect the power supply and the base station it powers, and it is a lot cheaper to have a 100 buck UPS then having to replace a burned out base station because the wall wart didn't act as the sacrificial lamb it should *shrug*. 

Hi Kris,

I don't know much about UPS devices, but if you have a Micro Center nearby they have a lot of them. Usually they have one on sale at any given time. I have never looked closely at ratings or other specs, but I may start looking into it myself one of these days?

Good luck with your selections.

Dear Jim

Thanks for the info, that was the information I was looking for Tripp Lite.

Dear BIGKID

Thanks for the information in regards CDW and the rating. This is still in the planning stage and I will keep a look out for the super sales and see if one comes up and purchase it. I just add up the cost of the electronics ie: DCS and Legacy with all accessories and power supplies it is well over a G note.  An insurance policy costing about 10% which comes to $100.00 is will worth the cost in my option.

Dear RTR12

Nice to hear from you again my friend. I love Micro Center for me it is Radio Shack on steroids. The only problem for me is the nearest store is in Yonkers, NY and I live in Ridgefield, CT. It is one of those special trips that you make once a year. They have the in store pick up but that store has been know to have the item in stock and when you show up they do not have it, pilferage is a big problem in that store.

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

RideTheRails posted:

Kris, there are at least two types of UPS systems. One that will come on when there is a power failure and therefore is in standby mode, the other is a system where the UPS is actually outputing power all the time via the batteries and they are constantly being charged.  This later is preferred in the data processing business as there is no cut over time from outlet power to battery backup.  I'd prefer this design as the equipment you're using,  never knows a power outage occurs.  Naturally, this later system is a little more expensive.  Therefore, you'll need to decide your threshold of pain.

Steve

 

There are three main power protection devices there is a UPS which is an acronym for uninterruptible power supply, then there is  SPS which is an acronym for standby power supply and last their is a surge suppressor. The UPS has a small battery that is constantly recharging and will keep the device running for about 5 minutes until everything is saved. (This is meant for computers) SPS, on the other hand, is a big battery that will keep your device on for a while just like RidetheRails said. The battery is on standby during normal operation. When the voltage decreases, the battery provides DC power to a power inverter, which converts it to AC power for the device. Now the problem with SPS is that it is not as reliable as a UPS because of the time it takes to switch over to the battery. If the switching device fails, the battery cannot supply power to the device. Last is the surge suppressor which helps protect against damage from surges and spikes. A surge suppressor diverts extra electrical voltage that is on the line to the ground. This is what I know about these power protection devices, I would wait until you get someone who knows what is best for a layout to comment. 

I actually am tempted to try the UPS imagine being able to run your trains for an extra 10 mins while there is a blackout! 

RaidTheRails, you gave some excellent advice I just wanted to explain the terms you were using.

The UPS unit I have my desktop computer on that also was running my cable modem and wi fi router, the printer and monitor, could last about 40-45 minutes when power went out, it was the 1200 watt one I bought from CDW for like 90 bucks, unless you have a very high power usage most will last longer than 5 minutes.  I would guess with a standard layout with a standard draw my unit would likely last in the range of 40-45 minutes or so.  Not so much about shutting down the trains when power fails (they likely won't care much, it is a little different than pulling the plug on a computer, especially one with a hard drive), but rather the benefit of the clamped voltage the battery units inherently supply and no facing fluctuations in voltage and surges. It is cheap insurance to me, the power supplies places like monster sell for AV equipment are almost as expensive as a UPS (I know, they are ridiculously overpriced, but still), and a UPS gives you a lot more benefits for the same price. 

UPS units are not that expensive, on sale from CDW I picked up units that are rated around 1200 watts for like 90 bucks on super sale.


For me the issue with a UPS is the battery. They only have a finite life, and then they have to be replaced. And the old battery recycled.
I got rid of my last desktop computer a couple of months ago.
I don't have anything that will be harmed by a sudden loss of power or some minor under or over voltage.
So surge protectors are all I really need.

The one exception is my battery powered backup sump pump.

Thanks for the replies on this subject, I am waiting for the  CDW big sale and see what they offer.