PRR Panhandle Division

Thanks guys!  As you can see, I am still working out the details - bridge shoes, height adjustments, etc.  I can't wait to install it on the layout.

 

George

fantastic!

Gee, I appreciate the offer, but I'm good.

 

Thank you, I think the bridge is pretty special, too.  The photos are kind of dark and don't do it justice.  I can't wait to get it on the layout, but the backdrop has to get painted first.  I also need to find the right set of bridge shoes (feet).  That snipe hunt is in progress.

 

George

Updated 12/13/2014:

Despite the sad events of the past two weeks, some incremental progress has occurred:

• My supplier has completed the second bridge pier. I have not seen it, but expect it will be delivered shortly.
• I have searched for commercially available bridge shoes of an appropriate size for the bridge and come up empty. Nothing big enough appears to be available (sigh).
• I have taken a first cut at designing a properly sized bridge shoe. It's rough and after a review, I have some modifications to make. The goal is to end up with a series of Visio drawings of the components (triangles, rectangles). Those drawings will be used to make precision quantity cuts of parts (I'll need 8 bridge shoes). I will then assemble them.
• Just below the bridge shoe is a (I'll call it a footer for lack of a better term) footer consisting of 8 "I" beams on edge holding up a plate. The bridge shoe rests on the plate. I've designed that and will start building those as soon as I have the materials.

That's all I know at the moment.

George

Bridge shoes seem like the perfect 3-D printer project. You may need help getting the drawings done....a few folks here on OGR might help, and then you could load them to the website 'Shapeways' where you or any modeler could order them. And parts that small and simple would be pretty reasonable.  Then anytime you needed more you can just order them. If I had mastered 3-D art software I'd do them for you....but I am stuck at 2-D for now. 

Dave,

 

They do seem like a good candidate for 3-D printing, but the attempt with the bridge piers left a bad taste in my mouth.  I have downloaded SketchUp 2014 and played with it.  I'm not great with 3D, but passable I suppose.  Certainly for something like this SketchUp would allow me to render it.  I didn't get the kind of SketchUp technical help I expected (even when I paid for it).  And the pricing for the piers was astronomically high - more expensive than the bridge!  Pricing for 3D printing of bridge shoes should be reasonable, but once bitten, twice shy.  I'm just not sure...

 

The guy who made my bridge piers is reliable and does spectacular work (as you can see in the photos).  My skills with a 2D drawing tool like Visio are pretty good.  That will probably be my first path.  If it doesn't work out, I have the 3-D printing option in my hip pocket.

 

Thanks,

 

George

I understand.....I made an attempt at learning 3-D software. I have a laser cutter and claim to be pretty good at producing art for my laser.....so 3-D was the next step. TOO frustrating for me to tackle right now.

Maybe cut them on a laser and assemble them?? Cut from plastic sheet stock would be a little more work....but not hard. Good luck!

Updated 12/16/2014:

 

I am pleased to report that the 2nd bridge pier has been completed.  I picked it up last night.

 

 

 

I think they look pretty good!

 

George

George they look almost as bad as that bridge. i still would be willing to take them off you hands. seriously i am jealous this will be 1 terrific scene on your layout.

look like the real thing I saw today

I appreciate your "kindness". 

 

Seriously, thank you.

 

George

Thanks!  That was the plan.  Of course it's hard to execute that plan when you have to "eyeball" them.

 

I do miss home sometimes.

 

George

Updated 1/9/2015:

 

• I completed the design (about the 4th revision) of the bridge shoes.  Also found a supplier for the ABS sheets that will be needed.  All these parts will be cut by CNC machine as they need to be precise and in quantity.  I will end up doing the assembly.

• Now that the design is done, I was able to compute the height of the backdrop from the riverbed to the bridge deck.  I will move the module floor (riverbed) to the proper height.  The piers (with their shoes) will snug up against the bottom of the bridge deck; I want to make sure that all 8 bridge shoes are bearing the weight evenly.
• The backdrop will also be notched correctly to fit into the module.  The artist and I will then draw the major landscape components onto the masonite and she can get painting.

 

More when I know it.

 

George

 

Updated 1/20/2015:

• My cataract surgery (right eye) went well yesterday. I can see out of my right eye again!!!!! Woo Hoo!!! I will need glasses for close up work and reading, but wow are the colors popping! Lots more light in my life right now.
• Did some work on the DZ-2001 Data Wire Driver (Switch Bus) issue today. I have come to understand that the total buss length shouldn't exceed 75 feet in length. Mine, as it stands today, is longer than that.  And as I have reported in the past, I have experienced loss of signal on the hidden storage yard switches (switches #17, 18, 19, 20, and 21). The answer is to split the long bus into two busses.  I am in the process of putting Switch Bus #1 together.  I have hopes of putting this together sometime later this week. This work needs to happen before the scenery backdrop behind the PRR bridge goes into place.
• In support of the work above, I have some additional 4 conductor wire on order - due Friday.

Feels great to be able to see and good to be getting something real done on the layout!!!!  

 

George

George,

im glad you are seeing better after your surgery.  it will make the hobby more rewarding for you.

George great news about you seeing better!!!!!!!!!!!!!! glad to hear it.

Good to hear your cataract surgery went well. I can a=imagine what a difference that would make. Good to hear your vision is so much better as well. I have same problem also in right eye. Hoping it will be ready for surgery this spring. How long did you have to wait before they would repair yours?

Well, I had gotten a new eyeglass prescription in February 2014.  (I've been under treatment for glaucoma and cataracts since 2008).  I started noticing blurriness and a lot more glare at night in mid-summer.  I had my eyes rechecked and it had significantly changed.  That and the pressure in my eyes increased.  At that point, my optometrist told me my eye was getting visibly worse.  He wrote an opinion to my eye specialist and we scheduled the surgery. 

 

I would recommend that you stay on top of your doctors about your readiness.  I intend to do the same to get the left eye done.

 

George

Thanks, I have an appointment in April. No glaucoma yet, but the cataracts have been around for a couple of years now and my right eye is nothing but a big blur now. I will stay on them about it. Good luck with yours as well.

Updated 1/22/2015:

 

This photo surfaced last month when the slideshows for my parents' funerals were being assembled.  My brother-in-law scanned in a bunch of shots and preserved them.  It's a nice photo of my parents that dates from the early 1950s (just after their marriage) or the late 1940s (when they were dating).  I have decided to look for similar figures (Artistta or others makers) and put them on the layout as a mini-tribute to them.  From a purely aesthetic point of view, I think it's a neat 1950's photograph (especially with the background and car).

 

 

 

I recognize the area, too.  The photo was taken on Terrace Circle in Weirton in front of my maternal grandparents' house.  In 1967, that entire street was purchased by Weirton Steel for use in their Basic Oxygen Plant (BOP) referred to as the Mill of the Future. 

 

Anyway, I think two figures like these need to be on the layout somewhere.

 

George

Updated 1/24/2015:

 

• Work on Switch Bus #1 is proceeding.  I've cleaned up the spot on the western distribution panel where the DZ-2001 wires split into two busses.  That is now a terminal block.  Switch Bus #1 is now a closed loop.  I've tested the 3 installed switch machines - No. 1, 2, and 3.  They work fine.  I still have to hook up the switches in the hidden storage yard - 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.
• Picked up my 4 conductor wire Friday.  I have started removing the old buss conduit from under the passing siding.  I hope to replace it with the new stuff soon.

• If I were to do this over again (and that is the plan when we retire), the distribution panel will get re-worked.  Right now it is not as clean and organized as I would like, but that is a result of all the changes that were made.  The same piece of wood first hosted a DCS set of components, then both DCS and TMCC, and then was reworked as several other TMCC components were added and power supplies changes.  [Lesson Learned]

Feels good to be doing some wiring work again.

 

George

 

Updated 1/25/2015:

 

I got tired of watching the NHL All Star Game and decided to do some work on the layout.  Switch Bus #1 has been relocated.  I moved the wiring connections (AC Hot, Common, Data Wire) for Switches 17 & 18 to new locations on Switch Bus #1.  I'm happy to report that these two switches are working!  They are functioning via push button and CAB-1 remote.  All 5 switches 17-21 are located in the Hidden Storage Yard, so I am spending time under the layout working with extra lighting.

 

Here's what the yard looks like.

 

 

 

Switches are all Ross and are equipped with Z-Stuff DZ-2500c switch machines.  They have been programmed and tested for awhile now.  I'm just getting around to installing them.  No. 19 will be the next one.

 

George

That game was a joke....time was much better spent working on thd layout.

-Greg

Updated 1/27/2015:

 

I am happy to report that Switch No. 20 is operational via TMCC (CAB-1) and push-button.  I opted to work on this one because it was closer to me (not as deep under the top layer of the layout).

 

Two more (Nos. 19 and 21) to go!

 

George

Updated 1/28/2015:

 

After much grief, crossed-eyes, and cramped sitting and working under the layout, I am pleased to report that all 5 switches in the Hidden Storage Yard are functioning under both CAB-1 and push-button control!!!

 

Now, let me get the lessons I learned down while the pain is still with me:

1. Minimum layout height should be 36" (mine is 27" - ouch).
2. Never, ever, ever, ever (did I say never?) install switches on a layout without testing their operations first.
3. More labels on wiring!!!

OK, I feel better now!

 

George

 

Updated 1/31/2015:

 

Here are some photos of the updated wiring for Switch Bus #1.  First photo shows the point where the loop terminates (just west of the bridge).  The 3 sets of suitcase connectors (left to right) supply TMCC signal (white), AC Hot (red), and Common (black) to switches 19, 18, and 17, respectively.  The white wire running across the photo at the bottom of the 1"x4" is the ground plane for the hidden storage yard, which is visible only as the edge of a piece of plywood.

 

 

 

Photo 2 shows the termination of Switch Bus #1 at the Western Distribution Panel.  Both ends connect to a 6 position barrier strip.  Wires proceed downward from that to the DZ-2001 Data Wire Driver board (connected to the bottom of the Command Base at the right).  As indicated by the label, power supplied to the bus is 15 VAC.  Switch Bus #2 will eventually connect to this same 6 position barrier strip.

 

 

George

I like the little tags you have that can be tied to the wires. All I have now is a Brother labeler and the tags don't stay on the wires very well as they are. I need to do something different. Where did you get the ones you are using? I think I might like to try them.   

Waytek (www.waytekwire.com) sells various sized tags.  I used product #52302 that takes a 2" label.  I think they have a number of various sizes.  There are also cable ties that come with a small flat area for labeling.  On these, I've used Avery labels, but they tend to fall off after awhile.  I am currently using a Brother P-Touch labeler (PT-1880).

 

Please let me know what you end up trying.

 

George

I can tell you a little about a few different labels that I used in my working life before retirement.

 

Brady markers, numbered and lettered, they come in a booklet. Available in different configurations of numbers and letters. Ok, but limited for descriptions and sometimes come loose over time.

 

Brady labels (there are other brands as well) that come in a booklet that you can write on. These stick pretty well when new and you can write what you want on them with a pen or fine point Sharpie. Not too bad. You can also get these (or similar from other brands) in various sizes an 8-1/2"x11" sheet for printing from a computer. Special software required and I don't now what that costs (probably expansive)? 

 

Brady label machine (similar to Brother or Dymo) that makes tags especially for wires. These are pretty nice. The labeler is expensive and so are the labels. They use a label cartridge like the Brother machines, also expensive. Cloth labels work very well and are also the most expensive. The printing can also be pretty small (maybe too small for my old tired eyes).

 

Engraved nameplates (very similar to the ones you are using only machine engraved and very $$$) with the 2 holes in each end for tying to wires. They required different colors for the type of device the wire was serving. These were just like yours (only thicker and engraved) and they were also the same size as yours. 

 

The ones you have found look to be cost effective, large enough for a fair sized label and probably an excellent choice. I would imagine these could also be used with just a Sharpie? I think I will try ordering some and try them out.

 

I imagine you have seen the labels a part of the ty-rap at the link you provided, but the labels were a lot smaller and they were a bit more costly. Probably not as good a choice as the ones you are using.

Label printing is included in Word - Tools, Letters and mailings, Envelopes and labels.  You can either select a similar-sized Avery or other brand label or create your own size.  You can print one-at-a time, rather than a whole page of the same label.

George,

The wiring and labeling is excellent!  I agree with you, rtr12, and Dale that labeling is essential.  I have worked in electronics as a technician and now engineer for over 38 years.  I have seen good labeling and poor labeling.  On a year long project a couple of years ago for the telecommunications company I work for, I emphasized the need for labeling to the folks in another state who were running the project, but didn't think it was important.  They can go on their merry way as far as I'm concerned, but when they told me we were wasting time documenting and labeling where every fiber patch cord went and what circuit it was, I told them we would continue 'wasting our time' as we have in the past.  

Guys,

 

Yes, a Sharpie works just great on these tags.  I've done that, too.

 

I have used Word to print Avery labels.  The majority of the labels on my layout are Avery printed with Word.  Unfortunately, they have started to fall off.  Very annoying after all the trouble I've gone through to make them.

 

Mark - the small effort made to correctly label, organize, and record connections pays off big time when you're hunting a fault.  I've seen that in my layout and in the real world.

 

George

Avery has both removable and permanent labels. The permanent may stay on better? I don't know if they have all sizes in both kinds however? I hadn't thought of Word. I have it, an older copy, but seldom use it. I think they used that in our office (when I was working) to do Avery labels. Come to think of it, I believe they used Word to print the 8-1/2"x11" wire label sheets I mentioned above as well, so I was wrong about the special software (unless you don't have Word). How quickly we forget?

 

I believe in labels too! Putting them on at the time of pulling/installing the wire is also a must if you have multiple wires, unless you have lots and lots of colors or want to spend a long time ringing them out. Might as well use good ones with meaningful descriptions on them.

 

As for wasting time with labels, that sounds like some of the managers we used to get that were trying to make a big quick bonus for cutting costs and increasing profits. They were usually let go a year or two later and we were stuck with the messes they left behind. And that was a BIG company. I finally left after 20 years, because of stuff like that. Spent my last few years working for one of my co-workers from there that left there before I did for the same reasons. He bought a small competing company, I went there. He is still doing very well and still labeling all the wires, very nicely I might add.

I forgot about this!!!

 

OK, Avery has a website.  On it, you can find Word templates for their different types of labels.  That's the easy way to make them.

 

George

If you can color-code rather than write out a full label, various colors of Duct Tape will work. You can also tag everything on one circuit with the same color, then write on each tag with a Sharpie, renewed as necessary.

 

Bright-colored nail polish will work on some things and is more durable than most labels, but I'm hesitant to put it on wiring because of the solvents in it.

Is there any special designation for the permanent types of Avery labels?  Where would I find them?

 

Thanks,

 

George

I have seen them at the large office supply stores like Office Depot. If I remember correctly, the removable ones were specifically marked as removable and the permanent were not marked. They didn't have every size in both types. As I recall only a few were removable. File folder labels are one type where I think had both? It could also be that the permanent ones just don't stick well to the plastic tags? Avery website might have more details?  

OK, I just answered my own question!   The labels that go with the Waytek 52302 ID plates are the Avery # 05430.  I found the package and they are the removable kind.  Sheesh!

 

And now I understand why I'm having problems.

 

I have just visited the Avery website.  Let's just say that it's less than swift.  I had to call them and speak with customer service.  I spent 15 minutes on the phone with them before they were able to tell me that they do not have a permanent label that fits those ID plates!

 

Back to the drawing board, I guess.  My choices are:

1. Glue my labels to the ID plates (cheapest solution, maybe)
2. Find permanent labels and new ID plates (major PITA and additional expense)!

 

George

 

 

This might be a PITA too, especially if you use a printer, but maybe get larger ones and cut them down? Would work for hand written tags. You might have a hard time finding any other ID plates like you have already found. I think those are pretty nice and don't recall seeing anything similar before seeing yours. Maybe a glue stick would work to hold them on better? Very easy to use, but don't know how they work on plastic?

 

I actually thought Avery had just about everything in permanent and very few in removable, shows what I know about them as well, not much I guess? Sure seems like the removable were hard to find when I was wanting some a while back when we moved.

 

That's what I thought, too.  It was only when I finally found the package that I realized the labels were removable.

 

I'm going to try something called Glue Dots.  If that doesn't work, then maybe Aileens Tacky glue.  Failing that I will tape the labels back onto the plastic.  With over 100 labels, this is going to be a total PITA.

 

George