PS3 Premier engine problem

I'm not familiar with running proto-3 with dc current in conventional.

I would however try adding the engine again with the tiu and a small test track . You may want to first  check out the dcs track signal on the test track using a different engine.

A remote reset will clear out any iD conflicts but also delete everything in the remote. If you have a lot of stuff that's  probably not an option.

There's  the recover engine feature under engine set up menu...

good luck

Gregg, thanks for the response.  I did hook up the TIU to the test track to no avail.  I will try that again and check the track signal this time.  I am not yet ready to turn this sd70 into a dummy engine.  I will keep trying.  Thanks again.

Dave.....

Yeah keep trying. The fact that the engine added earlier  to address 11 is encouraging. Then perhaps then a feature reset  if you can get it added back

good luck... hopefully others will reply .

If you want to try resetting the remote, do a backup first of all the remote contents.  That way you can bring back all the engines stored in the remote if the reset doesn't fix anything.

Thanks John, I may have to try that this afternoon when  I pull the TIU from the layout and back to the workbench.  Just can't let those other engines set to long without running! 

Dave....

I checked my test track by placing another engine on it.  That engine received the watchdog signal just fine, started and responded as it should.  Still no response on the sd70.  I popped the board off and all  all wires appear connected properly and solder joints on caps are solid.  I think the board may be suspect,  and will probably have it checked to make a determination on this engines future.

Thanks for your responses, 

Dave.

Check your pickup screws in your trucks. There is a black one used in 2 rail. Check for tightness. If you become ambitious pull the black screws and machine the black coating away from where the ring tongue connector touches. All my premier 2 rail have seen this service.

Willygee,  the pickup screws on this engine are apparently chrome plated, and are conducting V/O meter current.  I have also removed the truck bottom plates, removed and clean each axle and pickup tabs on the axles and in the truck frame.  But still no signal to the engine and the remote cannot find it when trying to add engine. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Dave....

This does sound like it died.  If you have a transformer with volt/Current meter like Z-4000.  Power up test track with engine and look at current draw.  High is shorted, low level with no response from engine is usually a failed board.   G

GGG,  I checked the current draw with V/O meter accross powered rails and unfortunately it is only drawing about .18A or 180mA.  Thanks for the heads up.

Dave....

GGG....what typically fails at the ps3 board? I have many in operation all behaving well but wondering if there some precautions to employ such as strategically placed TVS at the board pickup leads? I did have one late ps3 engine guilty of "false starts" did the wire harness over caps mods...so far behaving as advertised

Hard to say, but they do fail.  They have a number of power supplies of different voltages to run all the processors and such.  They can fail, but usually something causes that.  No hard facts/stats on these boards.  G

DCS/ DCC switch set to DCS??

Casey,  yes it is set correctly. Wish it wasn't, that would have made things a lot easier and less expensive!     Thanks for asking though.

Dave.....

To GGG and the others who have responded:  I have other PS2 and PS3 engines that have run just fine, some of them since 2010 or 2011. The odd thing about this particular engine is that it was running fine for at least an hour during my last session before I powered it down for the night.  It sat in the same exact spot for two nights on the mainline till my next train session and failed on startup.  This is why I first suspected dirty track or wheels,  although I keep my track pretty clean through maintenance and just running trains.  I suspect a weakening part or circuit just gave up when receving power through the rails.

Dave.....

Well, since my last post I was able to determine that trackpower was present on the 8 pin connector therefore reaffirming that the PS3 board was not playing.  I was able to find another board taken from a PS3 F7 engine.  Also, thought it was a good time to upgrade everything to DCS version 5 which loaded without any problems.  Anyway,  I installed the board, fired up the engine and that nice old thumping sound of an EMD F7 was heard eminating from the speaker.  To set things right I downloaded the SD70ACE sound file and chain file from the MTH site and installed them successfully.   Had to edit the name and loco number in the remote.  Only one glitch I can see is that the ditch lights  will not respond.  I tried a feature reset which did not help the ditch lights,  but the rear headlight began to work after the reset.

Question: Because this board was from a F7, ( without ditch lights of course), does this fact prevent ditchlights from working on a different type of engine with ditch lights,  even though new chain files were loaded to the board?   Would appreciate any ideas on a possible software solution before popping the shell back off and check for a possible hardware problem.

Dave....

Ditch lights can also be found under the Control Menu.. That's all I have.

Found the problem.  Still had the engine on the test track, and then realized they don't turn on until engine starts moving forward. DUH!  Moved the engine a few inches and everything is functioning AOK. New board has this unit back in mainline service. 

Thanks all, Dave....

Yep! G

Dave,

You can change the behavior of the ditch lights by using the Control Menu:

Menu/Control/Ditch Lights and use the soft keys to turn them on, off, flashing, or auto.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

@willygee posted:

GGG....what typically fails at the ps3 board? I have many in operation all behaving well but wondering if there some precautions to employ such as strategically placed TVS at the board pickup leads? I did have one late ps3 engine guilty of "false starts" did the wire harness over caps mods...so far behaving as advertised

Hey Will,  have a brand new ps3 SF F7 which has erratic behavior when a used ps2 /3v steamer is on the track. Steamer works perfectly with GRJ s SBR or batteries.  The F7 sometimes SU when calling for the steamer instead and then gets sent to the inactive list.  Then " no engine on track "

The F7 runs with its counterpart F7 in a lash up . When I remove the ps2 steamer from the layout , the F7 can go back to the active list and performs admirably.

I was given advice on one of the replies about turning the caps horizontally with the  harness over them.  Not sure what this is supposed to look like .   I can't find photos that are supposed to show the arraignment on the forum search.     Were you able to access photos for this ?

Dallas,

Follow this link:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-track-signal-values

It discusses a similar kind of problem found with a steam loco.  You'll be able to learn a lot about how the same fix might help on your diesel by following the work that was documented in this thread.

Mike

@Dallas Joseph posted:

....When I remove the ps2 steamer from the layout , the F7 can go back to the active list and performs admirably.

.....

maybe the signal level of your track is borderline and is drawn down?

What is you track signal strength with both on the rails?

What is the voltage on the rails with both? with the PS2 removed?

Does it matter where the PS2 steamer is on the layout when this happens? Do you have power flow issues on the layout? (lights dim, etc.)

I'm trying to guess what is going wrong and would need more info. What is your power supply? how big (complex) is the layout? how many power feeds per how much track? etc. etc.

I've had this happen and blamed a certain engine until it got worse. Then it appeared to happen with certain engines. It was an issue that the power feed was in the middle of a block and didn't work well. I moved it to the end and added a filter to the other. That filter was later removed when I upgraded to a version L TIU.

It also happened when too many engines were getting power in my engine yard, from a single TIU channel. It seemed like the PS3 engines missed the watchdog the most.

Mike's post is one to take note of here, this is a known issue with the PS/3 boards.  If the power leads run too close to one of the inductors on the board, it will affect the DCS signal as the inductors are unshielded.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mike's post is one to take note of here, this is a known issue with the PS/3 boards.  If the power leads run too close to one of the inductors on the board, it will affect the DCS signal as the inductors are unshielded.

I had this happen on my PS2/3 R-36 subway that was repaired awhile back. I placed it on the other track and it started up and ran fine.  (???)

I'll have to back to this later. Got an emergency right now.

Thanks all.

Back again .

Haven't had a chance to go through the info you had yet Mike.    I do remember one of the RK steamers had an issue with poor running.   It would only work right when I had tucked the wire harness under the board in the tender.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

maybe the signal level of your track is borderline and is drawn down?

What is you track signal strength with both on the rails?

What is the voltage on the rails with both? with the PS2 removed?

Does it matter where the PS2 steamer is on the layout when this happens? Do you have power flow issues on the layout? (lights dim, etc.)

I'm trying to guess what is going wrong and would need more info. What is your power supply? how big (complex) is the layout? how many power feeds per how much track? etc. etc.

Joe I'll have to check but ,the Signalfor the ps2 / 3v  ( 301305 ) has been between 9 and 10 s whenever I've checked .  I'll have to go back and check when trying to operate the F7 ( don't have the number right now but it's  the plated new one )   .  The F7 strangely  doesn't show a signal strength while it is operating in the lash up.     Voltage is running between 17.9 and 18. 2

If I can get both engines running at the same time , I'll get better info for you .   It doesn't matter where I locate either engine on the track.

There does not appear to be any power flow issues  (  I run both Fixed 1 and Fixed 2 at the same time with all the other 23 engines and 17 switches live ,off of track power ) with perfect operation of any other engine ,ps2 or ps3 , Premier or RK .      The only non LED lights on the entire layout are this 301305's headlight , firebox light and tender backup light.  I sometimes run as many as five trains  ( 3 of which are four car passengers ) on two separate loops.

I'm  using a Z1000 on each fixed in to the Rev L TIU( 6.1 ) and handheld remote.    I've been using the outside double loop which is about 75 feet of Realtrack with 7 power connections from the fixed 1.  Not sure about the wire size, but it was your typical household extension cord. 

Voltage and signal strength have never been an issue with the track.   The readings sometimes vary between different engines .

This Mallet for whatever reason has puzzled me , I guess it is my opportunity for excellence !!!? 🙃

@SIRT posted:

I had this happen on my PS2/3 R-36 subway that was repaired awhile back. I placed it on the other track and it started up and ran fine.  (???)                                              

On the Subway R-36 was it an interference with a ps3 caused by a ps2 steamer?

I ask because my ps2 diesels don't cause a problem 🤔🤕

Much thanks Mike for the info to see Marks post.  He did an excellent job on his post.👍

I can't wait to get these engines apart and get things in order.

Marks photos and explanation were what I've been looking for since I'm not up to the speed that I need to be on some of these instructions.

Once again photos clarified .  I still seem to be in visual mode. 🤓

@Dallas Joseph posted:

Hey Will,  have a brand new ps3 SF F7 which has erratic behavior when a used ps2 /3v steamer is on the track. Steamer works perfectly with GRJ s SBR or batteries.  The F7 sometimes SU when calling for the steamer instead and then gets sent to the inactive list.  Then " no engine on track "

The F7 runs with its counterpart F7 in a lash up . When I remove the ps2 steamer from the layout , the F7 can go back to the active list and performs admirably.

I was given advice on one of the replies about turning the caps horizontally with the  harness over them.  Not sure what this is supposed to look like .   I can't find photos that are supposed to show the arraignment on the forum search.     Were you able to access photos for this ?

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ce-needed-with-photo