Repair Angst

Hello TIMBO.............

What was wrong with the 2 engines you have or what is it that's not working right ?

Tiffany

Contact George, GGG on the forum.  His email in in his profile.  He has repaired some of mine in the past.  Honest and reputable.

Ron

There are several forum members that do repairs.

They seem to be swamped with warranty repairs and don't have the time for other billable repairs.  Your best bet is to find a reputable Repair Tech.  Either at a LHS near you, or via mail.

I have seen an uptick in request to repair Lionel because of this back log.  More than happy to do this for you, e-mail in my profile.  G

So, if Lionel is swamped with warranty repairs, what does that tell us about their products ?????????

Dan Padova posted:

So, if Lionel is swamped with warranty repairs, what does that tell us about their products ?????????

It tells us nothing about their products. It tells us that they cannot make enough profit to take repairs. These are not warranty claims, these are out of warranty repairs.

I'd look for someone local, two-way shipping will kill you from the west coast to the east coast.

I just went to Trainz website and could not fine anything about doing repairs. Wasn't it just a few months ago they were advertising

they had the best turn around time and most professional repair service available?

The problem with Lionel repairs is if they won't take repairs, and they won't offer the tech certifications, who's going to fix their stuff? 

As far as Trainz, if their repairs are like their packing for shipment, I don't think I'd trust it!  I've gotten more crushed and busted stuff from them than any other source!  I hope a different crew is packing your repair if you send it there.

Hi Timbo,

Contact me off line,I have two Lionel Authorized repair people here in Nor Cal.

Mikey

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The problem with Lionel repairs is if they won't take repairs, and they won't offer the tech certifications, who's going to fix their stuff? 

As far as Trainz, if their repairs are like their packing for shipment, I don't think I'd trust it!  I've gotten more crushed and busted stuff from them than any other source!  I hope a different crew is packing your repair if you send it there.

John, Between You Marty Fitzhenry, George (GGG),Pete(Norton), Me and many others on this forum we can fix, repair, upgrade anything

Alex

It's interesting to me, and I ain't any smarter than the average bear. But wouldn't it behoove Lionel and others to have repair personal on hand for non-warranty repairs? After all, they would make money off of that.  

Sure, have all your warranty repair guys on hand.  No money to be made there.  But support it with the big hourly rates that repairs bring in ($65.00 per hour at Trainz, for instance).  In a non-warranty situation, we, the consumers, are pretty much at the mercy.  And although I don't like the idea of spending big shipping money and repair money... sometimes I simply have to bite the bullet and do it.

And, if nothing else, it is proper customer relations.  I can't tell you how sour I am at Lionel at the moment for making me wait four months.  But that too shall pass in time.

I do have a repair shop in my general area of Los Angeles.  But they are shady and have instituted some chicanery with myself and others.  So I won't go there.

It would be great if there were a list on this board of all repair folks and their locations.  Maybe that already exists and all of you will jump on me to tell me to do my research.  But if it doesn't exist, it would be a great resource.

Anyway, I have two engines with smoke unit and smoke fan troubles.  I like the idea of sending my stuff to somewhere in California.  (Mikey, I'll contact you offline regarding this).

- timbo

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The problem with Lionel repairs is if they won't take repairs, and they won't offer the tech certifications, who's going to fix their stuff? 

As far as Trainz, if their repairs are like their packing for shipment, I don't think I'd trust it!  I've gotten more crushed and busted stuff from them than any other source!  I hope a different crew is packing your repair if you send it there.

I can't understand why a business would put their name on the line for the cost of a little extra packaging. I worked for a number of electronic firms over the years and it amazed me how some people would give the shippers packaging with electronic cards and components in them that rattled like a tumbler.

What engines do you have?  Lionel has a list of authorized repair stations on the Lionel site.  You live in an area where you should be able to find someone local.  Your state shows five.  Guys,  any issue have can be many times solved by throwing it out on the forum.   Many qualified guys reside here.

It may well be that at the hourly wages they offer, the manufacturers can't obtain sufficient qualified personnel.  If someone is competent *they can go into business on their own, and the entire charge goes into their pocket.  Many techs probably work from home, which cuts the overhead to close to zero.  Working for oneself means you can charge lower rates but make more, than having to share it with some employer or agency.

*I guess if not competent, they can also go into business, until/unless word gets around.

Every repair I hear with lionel is about their smoke units. Why don't they simply discontinue putting them in their engines. It may help keep prices down. 

Romiller 

That's like asking why do we put air conditioning and radios in cars.   I'm sure the other manufacturers would love to have that huge competitive advantage!

FWIW, I see PLENTY of repairs that have nothing to do with smoke, so you're hearing must not be that good.

Nobody is going to get rich fixing trains.   I do it to help my friend Charlie.   I have gone to all the schools I could fit in so I can do it the right way.  I have a large layout that has a few trains and I would not want to be sending trains out to get worked on.   That would get costly.  I get emails very often from Forum members that want me to fix trains.  I try to point them to someone who pays money to run a store and run an add on the Forum.  

I do not need any more work than I have and I feel bad turning people down.   If I can help a Forum member with something he can not get from a sponsor, I try.   It is not about the money.   I am retired.   Timbo, you might get some help if you tell people what engines you have.   Many people can help you with smoke issues.  A person does not need to be a Lionel Tech to help with that.  We have some great talent on this Forum.  I am a Lionel Tech but have always learned from others here.

The big advantage dealing with a shop that is certified is the huge savings on parts.  Lionel gives the largest discount on parts to service stations.

Some great repair guys have already been mentioned on this post.  If I was unable to do repairs, these guys would get my work.

John made the big point of the shipping.  Coast to coast, your shipping can sometimes be more than the repair.  Lionel smoke parts are dirt cheap.  Do you know Jimmy Osborne in San Diego.  He may be your man.

I appreciate all the responses and I am  glad, in a cathartic kind of way,that I am not the only one feeling the angst.

Seems like Lionel could hire college kids to be repair techs and get some cheap but intelligent labor.  I know kids don't stay around long, but they pick up on things fast.  I know when I was in college I spent a summer upgrading Kaypro II computers for Computerland.  (If you know what a Kaypro is, you are a relic like me).  It was good money and easy money and better than working fast food or bagging groceries.

Anyway, I have a Lionel SD40-2 with the 3 blinking light issue (fan motor, I believe). Then I also have an MTH SD45 that simply doesn't smoke.  Probably as easy as checking the baffling.  But I am not one who is proficient at tiny screws and detail parts anymore.  Would rather pay someone to do it.  Big hands and questionable vision mixed with an ounce of clumsiness and some moronic tendancies have made me wiser.  So out comes the wallet...

- Timbo

Those sound like the type of repair where the shipping greatly exceeds the cost of the repair!

College kids will not work out.   One does not learn this in a crash course.   I studied all the Lionel boards before going to Lionel school.   All the pin outs had to be learned before school started.   Four months before the school all the paperwork was sent with the information.   I have no idea on up coming schools.  I will be heading to MTH  school in August  for some updating on PS3.   That will be MTH school number six for me.   I am looking forward to this school as Jason is teaching it himself.

I'll have to check with MTH, I'd like to get updated on PS/3 as well.  What are the dates of the class?

GRJ, I'll get my hearing checked just for you.

romiller

romiller49 posted:

GRJ, I'll get my hearing checked just for you.

Make sure they check both ears.

So maybe it's time we realize that Lionel may not want to do repairs at all.  Instead, like so many other products, they feel their trains are disposable.  If it breaks, just throw it away and buy a new one.  It's not the same world I grew up in.

Speaking of shady repair shops, I grew up in North East Philly.  I had two dealings with S&H Hardware, on Castor Avenue.  One in the early '60s, the second in 1980.  Both times they screwed up the repair.

So maybe it's time we realize that Lionel may not want to do repairs at all.  Instead, like so many other products, they feel their trains are disposable.  If it breaks, just throw it away and buy a new one.  It's not the same world I grew up in.

We all have to put up with so many disposable items. Trains aren't one of them.
I guess that's a major contributing factor to my preference for older trains (1994 and before)

Dan, they must have been bad as anyone could fix those trains.  Those trains you could teach a grade school kid to fix them.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd look for someone local, two-way shipping will kill you from the west coast to the east coast.

Shipping is not as bad as you imply.  Some remote areas are high, but other areas can be shipped to for very reasonable price.  Flat rate can be very reasonable.

Folks forget that driving to a LHS at times can mean several hrs and gals.  What is 2-3 hours of your time and 5-6 gals of gas cost.  Once to deliver and once to pickup.  G

My only experience with repairs given newness to the hobby is a Lionel 6-18753 North Pole Express that I dropped off at local hobby shop in March - sounds not working. They gave me a repair ticket and I've called 3 times to find out the status but no response other than to say they still have the engine. At least I can take comfort in that - they still have it. Hadn't thought about calling to find out they don't know where it is.

I went local so I wouldn't have to pack or ship the piece. If 2-3 months is the norm, no problem. I just need to know that when I drop it off. I actually don't need the engine until sometime in September when we'll corral the reindeer feeding in the high plains for the summer and load them into the stock car for the trip to the North Pole. I'm sure someone will get to it sooner or later, but what a weird way to run a business. Pretty tough to retain customers with that formula.

Gave it to a repair shop at the suggestion of forum members since my fix-it skills encompass changing light bulbs and batteries. My reading comprehension is pretty good, so maybe a quick study on train engine repair is in order. After all, how hard can it be? The red wires are nega...wait, no I think black is negative and you connect it to a red positive to give you a complete circuit.

GGG posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd look for someone local, two-way shipping will kill you from the west coast to the east coast.

Shipping is not as bad as you imply.  Some remote areas are high, but other areas can be shipped to for very reasonable price.  Flat rate can be very reasonable.

Folks forget that driving to a LHS at times can mean several hrs and gals.  What is 2-3 hours of your time and 5-6 gals of gas cost.  Once to deliver and once to pickup.  G

I think you forget that many people are not expert packers, and shipping runs the risk of damage coming and going.  I also don't see where you're getting the idea of "flat rate" for something like a steam locomotive, what shipper are you using?

I just did a $60 repair on a large steam locomotive that was dropped off at York.  The return shipping to Virginia from SE-PA with $1000 insurance was $40!  I call that expensive!

Moon, I see these often and the fix takes 5 minutes start to finish.    Is your shop an authorized Lionel dealer?  If you get it back unfixed, contact me and I will guide you to fix it.

timbo, check your e-mail,I sent you a message.

TIMBO, i feel bad for you.  That's ridiculous.   Now I remember why I have so much PW, MPC and LTI.  Simple and solid.

Well if the engine goes back into its original box shipping is simple.  Certainly insurance ups the cost.  I use FEDEX and USPS and there can be different rates depending on where it goes.  You be surprised that USPS can ship to some remote areas for $13 to $17 priority.

Even so, at $40.  Do the math on gas and time.

Plus Moonman brings up the other point, my customer do not wait months for repairs, it is more like same day or a few days.  Only those that need unique parts have to wait, and I keep them updated.  

Certainly if you can find a reputable repair person locally, that is what I would endorse.  But if not, shipping should not be an inhibitor if you have a tech you trust.  Look how much stuff MTH and Lionel have shipped to them.   G

No doubt that it's sometimes necessary to ship stuff, if that were not the case, I wouldn't have this pile of upgrades and repairs behind me.  

I still maintain that shipping is an extra risk to the equipment.  As far as the "stock" manufacturer's boxes, many times I add extra padding to insure no damage for a customer.  I find a lot of Lionel and MTH packing allows the pieces to move in the Styrofoam, that is frequently the kiss of death for a heavy locomotive.

I always tell my customers  when shipping me your engine, please make sure it's in the original shipping carton if possible. If not please pack it well because the engine can sustain more damage on the way to me for the repair. A while back i had a customer ship me an engine from across the country for a smoke repair and upgrade, when i received it, the drive train was locked up due to the handling and poor packaging. Luckily its was just the driveshaft and it was a simple fix.

Always save your original shipping cartons for this reason.

John, you too lol i also have that pile of repairs and upgrades !!

Thanks, Alex

I tell the customer to hold the box and shake it vigorously, if anything rattles or moves, do some more packing.

This is why the plastic and foam wrap should be saved inside the box.  I hate opening a package and seeing the steam engine laying in the Styrofoam unwrapped.  All those small foam pieces get everywhere.  If it is gone use wrapping paper to protect engine and get a firm lock in the Styrofoam.

If no original box, use a large enough box to ensure a good 3 to 4 inches of cushion all around engine and/or tender.   G

A couple of packing tips.

#1. Make sure the ends of the engine are especially well padded.  That's where the most damage usually occurs as the weight is concentrated into a small area.

#2. After packing, vigorously shake the package.  If you feel or hear anything moving, it's not packed well enough!