Richart Mine Train

Craig, they are pretty slow. Here is a photo of mine. Just rolled tin.

Steve

Thanks. Looks like the front and rear edges are straight, right? Getting the curvature shouldn't be a problem, but if I want to get the rolled edge I'll need to find somebody with a bending brake. More likely I'll just do a straight overhang on the sides and attach it with L-brackets inside the cab. 

Is that plain metal or is it painted silver? And is it steel or aluminum? I would think steel, but the color got me wondering. 

Just light steel. It is actually painted gray.

Steve

Thanks. That's what I figured, but it's always better to confirm. 

The Rich-art "speeder" mining loco is geared slow.  It uses that black plastic drive chain that is a pain when it breaks.

The whole set includes 7 cars for TTOS conventions 1983 through 1989:

- 1983 18th national convention Phoenix, copper ore hopper, does not dump.

- 1984 Sacramento, copper ore hopper, side dump

- 1985 Snowbird Utah, blue salt hopper, side dump

- 1986 Portland Oregon black flat car with lumber load

- 1987 Rochester NY Genesee Ale keg

- 1988 Tucson, yellow and orange covered gondola with hinged lids

- 1989 MKT "The Katy" red tank car

Also, CMT later made a crane car to match this set, but it wasn't part of the original line-up by RichArt.  The little loco has a hard time pulling the whole set.

david

The Richart TTOS Mine loco was first issued in 1986. At that time, only 4 of the convention cars were made. Convention cars were made from 1983-1990, CMT producing the last years car. Hojack's list is quite accurate and for the record, the 1988 offering was touted as a Tool Car. These are seen in the middle 2 rows in the photo. Some cars had different graphics on either side.

Seen here in an TTOS ad in 1986, it is shown with a couple pre-production examples of future convention cars. The cars offered for sale with the loco were non-convention related cars, they just had the TTOS Mine Co lettering and/or the TTOS logo (top shelf in photo).

There were also convention related cars that are either painted, plated or lettered differently. These were either banquet cars, auction items or officer cars (bottom shelf).

The little loco is hefty, but has trouble pulling more than 4 cars and with the single roller pickup, it does not navigate switches/crossovers very effectively.

ARNO

Are those set compenents "standard" guage?

Arno 

That is quite a collection, thanks for posting. The photo of your display will make a useful future reference if I decide to acquire more of the convention cars. I have a few more in addition to the four I got with the loco; I'll have to open some storage boxes to see exactly what I have. I know I have the beer barrel and the Tucson "tool car" but I'm not sure what else.

I'd like to get the Snowbird car because I used to ski there quite a bit - I even have a NASTAR medal from the race course there. It's only NASTAR and in my age bracket you can practically get a bronze for not busting a gate or skiing off, but hey, it's still a ski racing medal! 

Steve you're right, looks like a gazillion different variations.  

Arno, in your photo, top shelf and third shelf down, right hand end on both, looks like a square gondola, one red one green?  Where does that fit in?

Tool car?  Okay!  Reminds me mostly of the British Hornby cement or "Saxa Salt" wagons, same pitched roof & lid.

david

The gondola on the top shelf was a special presentation at a TTOS convention, it was made by Roberts Lines.

The green gondola is the banquet car from the 1990 TTOS convention. It was made by CMT, the same year they made the crane car.

ARNO

The 1985 Snowbird Salt dump car is not without its issues. Apparently, those in charge of the design decided to use real salt for the load. We all know the havoc salt can cause when it has metal for lunch, so many have rusted or show signs they soon will.

There are some they made later on using glitter instead of salt. These are the ones to search for.

They loaded the car with REAL salt? What were they thinking? Or not thinking?

Why not battery acid, or molten lava? Sheesh!

Apparently, those in charge of the design decided to use real salt for the load.

That's insane. No wonder you don't see that car on the secondary market very often. Thanks for the warning.

The people who made that decision were from California.... not quite the snow belt region.

ARNO

Of all the amazing facts and factoids I've learned from you about tinplate trains, this one about the salt-filled hopper ranks right up there as the most comic. There's just no way it can strike a Vermonter as anything but hilarious.

The subtext on that is that Vermont still gets its winter supply of road salt delivered by rail... and some of those hoppers are not pretty.  So although my Richart Snowbird car is one of the salt-free glitter ones, I always thought I'd keep my eye out for a really badly corroded one.  It just seems that a Standard Gauge layout in Vermont isn't complete without it!

Arno, this whole thread is yet another example of where-would-we-be-without-you and your wealth of knowledge about Standard Gauge tinplate.  We all have some bits and pieces to contribute but it's mostly helter skelter and shots in the dark until you come in with the definitive word.  Thank you for always being so generous with your knowledge.  It is so amazingly complex, all the different people and manufacturers (who knew Roberts Lines got into this mining train act?) I have no idea how you keep it all straight in your head.

david

David, Thanks for the kind words, I'm just doing my part.

As for the Roberts Lines connection, it isn't a that much of a stretch. Bob Thon (owner/manufacture behind Roberts Lines) was TTOS National president at the time of the mine trains inception. In fact, Bob was responsible for the mine loco as the idea was presented to Dick Mayer (The RichArt Co) in April, 1984.

ARNO

Here are a few examples of the same year car, but a different color etc.

Steve

Arno,

Fascinating info for your MESG book!  When will we be able to buy it?

Bob

Looks like there's one up for sale if anyone is interested.

david

Thanks, I'm watching it. 

That is a salt version from what I can tell from the description:

"some small rust spots on the sides where the wheels are connected. coal load is white and has a few spots of rust."

Looks good as a whole, but be sure to ask for pictures of all sides.

ARNO

Thanks Arno.

C'mon, it looks 'way too good to be a salt version.  Lots of tinplate has small rust spots. But I agree, we need more photos.  I have asked the seller to post more pics.

Granted, it does look good. I have salt versions that look very good but there is always that hint of somethings up. Makes you wonder how long they will stay that way. If it already has hints of rust in the bin area, the process has begun. I hope they post the extra photos.

Too true.  Like the man said, Rust Never Sleeps.

I'm looking for one of these hoppers that looks like this:

More pictures are up.

First, and foremost, let me say that this one looks to be in decent condition. My comments below are for educational purposes and not to bring down the auction, the seller or the item.

Yes, it looks like the salt version to me. Slight rust "browning" shown on the surface of the load top. This is typical for this version and can happen even if most of the slat seems to be gone. I would call that Stage 1.

Moving into the beginnings of Stage 2 is the inside corner rust and the bottom seem corner rusting. This is where a lot of the damage on these cars takes place. The salt falls thru the edge cracks of the load topper and settles in the bottom of the dump bin. Most of the time, the damage is being done in the areas that you can not see (much like you automobile). A lot of the time, you can see the bubbling appear in this area.

Also, see all the dust on the black frame? That is most likely loose salt.

Also, none of the other mine train cars the seller has up mentions the word rust. Considering they have all been exposed to the same conditions, it clearly is a salt car.

I do not have a picture of the glitter version, but they are easy to recognize as the "salt" is very flat, square and shiny. The real salt cars have very fine salt particles.

Hope this helps. If I were looking for one of these cars, I would buy it and search for one to upgrade at a later date.

ARNO

Arno, how did they make the salt load?  You mention a load topper; was salt glued to the top of a molded form like the coal loads in SG hoppers?  If so, what was the form made out of?

The salt wouldn't even have to fall through the cracks.  Salt attracts moisture out of the atmosphere, which would then recondense on the tinplate and run down the inside as salt water.  Salt rust damage would correspond very closely with how dry or humid storage conditions were.

How true David. The unfortunate truth is that the hopper bin is doing its job and storing its load. In this case, the salt. There is a fair amount of salt that gets loosened up by general handling, which then finds its way to the bottom of the bin. Whether it got there via the moisture or by being scraped off, the results are the same.... salt eating away at the metal. The moisture and/or handling can also cause the frame to be affected as well as the wheels and journals.

The load topper is the metal piece to simulate the load. I'm not sure if the salt was glued to the topper or if it was embedded in the wet paint. I know the glitter cars were glued.

I've found these cars un-opened in the boxes. It's amazing to see how much extra salt is in the packaging even 30 years later. Needless to say, when I pack these cars, I put them in a plastic bag and do not put them with other cars.

ARNO

Couldn't they be disassembled and scrubbed down, so that remaining salt is removed and the residue neutralized, rather than resigning to them rusting away? Maybe not?  Good point about keeping them away from other trains... sort of like introducing a virus into your collection... maybe I'll rethink getting a rusty one.

Here's a story about hauling road salt by rail in VT and NH; click through the pictures, kinda neat.  

Thanks Arno, that is very useful information.