Running a TMCC Allegheny Virginian Locomotive with my Legacy 990 Control System

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, stall does work with can motors if you don't have cruise.  However, it's a bandaid, and it's far better to install the Cruise Commander M in this locomotive and add cruise.

Interesting.  Never had an issue other than Pulmors.

The box says ‘High Torque Pittman Motor’. Is that the same as a Pullmor?

@MartyE posted:

Interesting.  Never had an issue other than Pulmors.

I don't know about "issue", but without cruise, you have to go quite a few clicks up on the throttle to get moving.  You can use stall to have it start on the first couple of detents, same as a Pullmor.  Obviously, this is all optional, and since everything I can upgrade gets cruise control, it's a minor issue for me.

Oddly enough, I find the small motorized units without cruise normally start up on the first couple of throttle clicks without doing anything.

@Raven87 posted:

The box says ‘High Torque Pittman Motor’. Is that the same as a Pullmor?

No that is a can motor.  It runs on DC.  Pulmor's are the classic Lionel AC motor.  Typically they take a lot more voltage to get moving so "Stall" was setup to initially jump the voltage feeding the motor to just where it would start to move so you didn't have to keep turning the throttle to that point.

@Raven87 posted:

The box says ‘High Torque Pittman Motor’. Is that the same as a Pullmor?

No, the Pittman motor is the Cadillac of motors for our model trains.  Before about 2006-7, that was the standard for big steam from Lionel and MTH.  Around that time, Pittman was bought by Ametek, and the motors skyrocketed in price and the model train manufacturers went to alternatives not long after that.  By around 2009, Pittman was no longer used in most model train products.  I think one of the last ones I've seen is the Vision Line Big Boy from 2014 still has a Pittman motor, but that's an oddity.

Thanks guys. So installing the CC-M will help a lot then for low speed control?

It will be night and day between the old DCDR and the CC-M!  You'll have vastly better low speed performance and steady speeds.  The CC-M typically works considerably better than the old TMCC Odyssey as far as low speed performance.  It starts at a slower speed and has finer resolution, 100 speed steps for the CC-M vs 32 speed steps for Odyssey I.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It will be night and day between the old DCDR and the CC-M!  You'll have vastly better low speed performance and steady speeds.  The CC-M typically works considerably better than the old TMCC Odyssey as far as low speed performance.  It starts at a slower speed and has finer resolution, 100 speed steps for the CC-M vs 32 speed steps for Odyssey I.

Thank you GRJ. I’m ordering one today. Is there a vendor you would recommend?

CC-M ordered and should be here in a few days.

Should the Stall be set without any consist or reset with each varying load?

Will Stall still be required to be set once my CC-M is installed?

Is the Momentum feature even useful with or without the CC-M on the Steam units? I’ve tried to adjust it but the locomotive does not seem to respond no matter the setting. It will still stop abruptly regardless. The only time I hear any ‘brake squeal’ is if use the ‘Brake/Boost’ rocker on my Cab2?

Raven, I just did this upgrade on my version of the same steamer.  I also used John's chuff generator.  I am very pleased with how mine runs now!  I did learn that momentum does not work with R100, only if you set the control type to TMCC.  Mine doesn't stop abruptly, unless I use the direction button, then it does.  If I use the brake feature slowly, or turn the throttle, it slows down per my input.

@Raven87 posted:

Should the Stall be set without any consist or reset with each varying load?

Will Stall still be required to be set once my CC-M is installed?

Is the Momentum feature even useful with or without the CC-M on the Steam units? I’ve tried to adjust it but the locomotive does not seem to respond no matter the setting. It will still stop abruptly regardless. The only time I hear any ‘brake squeal’ is if use the ‘Brake/Boost’ rocker on my Cab2?

Stall has no function when you have cruise control, the locomotive should start on the first speed step regardless of the load.

There is no "optimum" way to set stall, typically it's set once.  It isn't perfect, it's just a crutch.  It was mostly used for the AC Pulmore motor as it takes many clicks of the throttle to get most of them to start moving without the stall set.

Thank you both, I really appreciate the advice and observations. My CC-M is supposed to arrive in the few days so I’m excited to get it installed.
Hopefully, the install goes well.
I really want to see good low speed control which to me is more ‘realistic’ than what I have now. After getting used to my Legacy diesels and the crawling they can do moving out, this current TMCC control/reaction is so different.

This is currently about the slowest I can get it to run pulling 18 coal hoppers.  I can get it a little slower but then it will stall. Is this what you normally see?
I really love this locomotive and it will not be my only/last steam powered unit. While it negotiates the 060 curves on my layout ok, I am going to upgrade the curves on at least my main line to 072 or even 084 if I can create the room.

@Raven87 posted:

Thank you both, I really appreciate the advice and observations. My CC-M is supposed to arrive in the few days so I’m excited to get it installed.
Hopefully, the install goes well.
I really want to see good low speed control which to me is more ‘realistic’ than what I have now. After getting used to my Legacy diesels and the crawling they can do moving out, this current TMCC control/reaction is so different.

Here's a sample CC-M install.  This is actually not the slowest one I have, it was just parked on the layout so it was easy to get a video.  It'll do this all the way around, including curves and grades.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's a sample CC-M install.  This is actually not the slowest one I have, it was just parked on the layout so it was easy to get a video.  It'll do this all the way around, including curves and grades.

Wow! That is incredible and I will be thrilled with that. Thanks for sharing that vid GRJ.

You should easily attain similar performance, that's the huge benefit of cruise control.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You should easily attain similar performance, that's the huge benefit of cruise control.

That is so amazing. Thank you!