Running MTH's TIU in active or passive mode?

I cannot conceive of any single loco, O or especially HO, that draws more power---i.e., more than 10 amps--than a TIU channel can supply.  I use 6 TIU channels (2 TIUs) and have run 3-4 locos on a channel.  I have 2 wifis.  All hot power is supplied through the TIU red channel terminals.

I think you lose emergency stop when you use passive mode.

I've had problems with maintaining connectivity espeically on the HO track which is why I'm considering going passive since from what I've read on Rayman's website it can distribute more power to the track than normal mode

You could try passive mode with the HO loop.  I sort of understand  Rayman's thinking on this however it's not a really big loop, why not just fix the  track connections. I think you could run extra feeders from the tiu with out the insulated rail joints. You may or may not get double commands responses.

Passive mode is completely inappropriate for this application for several reasons:

• You simply don't need it. The power requirements for each of your loops are far below the 10 amp capacity of a single TIU channel. Further, what were you planning to use for power to exceed 10 amps per channel?
• You will not improve connectivity by using Passive TIU mode. You only improve connectivity by having better track work, better wiring and insulated blocks.
• Passive TIU Mode will cost you the ability to use the E-Stop emergency function.
• Passive TIU mode will cost you the ability to use variable voltage via the variable channels, and to operate conventional trains easily on the variable channels.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

I don't know who Rayman is, but I'd like to understand the rationale for what the above posts say he said.  I'm always open to considering different approaches.   Meanwhile, I agree with Barry's evaluation.

ADDENDUM: I have managed to find Rayman's site, which include an excellent guide to DCS.  Upon reading what he wrote about passive mode, all I see he says is that it can provide more amps to the track than can be fed through a TIU.  This is correct.  But if you have a loco, HO or O, that needs more than 10 amps, you have another problem!  Passive mode will not eliminate the effect of lousy wiring or poor track connections.  If, at lower-than-10 amps, you have a problem getting power through a TIU, it could well be that the nuts on the binding posts are loose; this will also cause heating of the binding posts (This does not apply to Rev G TIUs, which used soldered connections.)

RJR, I believe Rayman runs G scale so he probably needs the extra power which would not be needed on the OP's layout above. Just adding blocks a couple of years ago made all the difference in the world on my layout. Haven't had a DCS error since.

Rayman does have a good website with lots of good DCS info. Well worth a look.

Appreciate the responses guys.  That's what I needed to know

Does anyone know with the new WIFI app do you have to add each engine one at a time on the track like you have to with the remote?

Does anyone know with the new WIFI app do you have to add each engine one at a time on the track like you have to with the remote?

Yes, you do. However, the process is much more streamlined and quite a bit faster than using the DCS Remote.

Regardless, adding engines isn't something that one does a lot, as compared to actually operating trains.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

RJR posted:

 

But if you have a loco, HO or O, that needs more than 10 amps, you have another problem! 

We are not saying that any one loco needs more than ten amps when anyone recommends passive mode. So that while that analogy seems funny it does not apply at all even to G scale. It's for people that run several engines outdrawing a channel's 10 amp capacity. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Dividing the layout into blocks works as well. There are many users I've heard from even in O scale, that run or want to run, more than ten amps to a loop of track. Older lighted passenger cars can be power hogs just as well if not more than the engines.

Joe, the OP specifically said he was running one train per TIU channel.  I was not addressing other scenarios.

Look precisely what I said: "But if you have A loco, HO or O, that needs more than 10 amps, you have another problem!" [Emphasis added.]  "A loco" means one loco. Therefore, I stand on my statement, not as humor, but as fact.

Texmaster, there is one difference: With the remote, once added the loco always remains available.  If it's on a powered track, you just select it and hit start up.  With the wifi, you may have the loco added to the smartphone/tablet, but every time you want to start up and operate a loco (that was sitting on an unpowered track for the last read) for the first time in an operating session, you have to do another read, which takes time and is a real PITA.

That's good to know RJR thanks.

Robert,

but every time you want to start up and operate a loco (that was sitting on an unpowered track for the last read) for the first time in an operating session, you have to do another read

If I recall correctly (and I may not be!). READ, or Refresh on the app, isn't required.

If using a remote, one presses the ENG button, selects the engine from the Inactive Engine List and then selects it again in the Active Engine List.

If using the app, one does the same thing, except one taps the Engine Roster button. I believe that the app remembers all of its engines from the last session and automatically refreshes the roster the first time that it's accessed.

However, it's been a while since I used the app and I could be misremembering the app's behavior.

RJR posted:

Joe, the OP specifically said he was running one train per TIU channel.  I was not addressing other scenarios.

Look precisely what I said: "But if you have A loco, HO or O, that needs more than 10 amps, you have another problem!" [Emphasis added.]  "A loco" means one loco. Therefore, I stand on my statement, not as humor, but as fact.

First then, let me apologize for my post above.

 I was trying to add humor to that statement about someone having troubles if a single engine drew that much. Believe it or not, my G scale MTH doesn't draw much more than my O scale does, if at all, 1 for 1. It's nice outside to have power to spare when some layout's can have really big amounts of track. There can be power drops on such long stretches.

Second, I just read your post about Ray and didn't read the OP. He has discussed power on his site and with people on other forums. He runs G scale only to my knowledge. His site is mainly about running G scale with DCS. Most everything can still apply to smaller scales.

Third, and where my post should have explained better I guess, is that running one engine with say 12 incandescent lighted passenger cars, can tax a single channel. That may sound wrong or not common. My grandson wanted more Amtrak passenger cars and he only has a RK  engine. Yet he melted his starter set's track controller when he ran all the cars I bought him. So if a poster for example, wanted to stress he runs only one engine, I believe it would be important also to know what else is on the track. I myself, didn't think that 8 cars would be a problem on his starter set layout.

Barry, w/r/t the remote, locos don't go to the inactive list unless you do a read and it is on an unpowered track.  On my 4 remotes. all 26 DCS locos are always on the active list unless a grandchild presses READ while some are unpowered.

W/r/t the app, you refer to what was in the last session.  I don't use all locos in each session.  When you turn on the app, it does a read automatically.  Locos on unpowered tracks become inactive.  I haven't been able to use them unless I do another read.

Joe, if you're losing power over a long stretch of track, rewiring is in order.  Also, having greater amperage capacity won't overcome excessive resistance in a circuit; you need voltage to keep up the amps required by the loco, and amps are the same everywhere in a circuit---you can't have 10 amps flowing at the TIU and 1 amp at the loco; if you do, 9 amps are flowing through another load(s).

I would agree that a single train with many lighted cars poses a need for greater amperage.  But on the low voltage circuits we use, higher amperage causes excessive voltage drop.  If you want to run many such cars with big bulbs, an LED conversion is in the works.  I do find that MTH cars with their tiny bulbs haven't caused problems, but all Williams and Lionel cars I've converted to LED.

Wow this is all great information.   do you all also recommend putting in an inline fuse to the power as rayman does here?

http://www.rayman4449.com/DCS_...ing_a_quickblow_fuse

The reason I was asking about programing the engines is because the warden (better known as the wife)  does not let me run the trains constantly so they come out during the fall for Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas.   I was planning to add the engines to a single piece of track now just to test the wifi and hoped they would be remembered when I hooked the TIU up to the main track system.

And now that you have seen my layout and know I went with the plastic mold HO track, what is the best way to wire them for better connectivity?

Thanks again for everyone's feedback.

I prefer breakers as cheaper over time, with one in each tiu red input feed.

Engineer-Joe posted:

.....  Believe it or not, my G scale MTH doesn't draw much more than my O scale does, if at all, 1 for 1. .....

 

 That's a good thing to know. I always thought G scale engines would draw more amperage than O gauge just because of larger size and probably larger motors, but I have no first hand experience with them.

Now I know better, thanks for clarifying.