Santa Fe F7 Questions

I have several ABBA F units in both configurations and I have found no difference whether the power units were together or separated. 

 

Good luck in your hunt.

Hello James,

I too ordered the GGD El Capitan cars and I too was considering purchasing a set of Atlas F7s.  BUT, I have been fighting with my powered Atlas Union Pacific F3s for a few weeks and at this point doubt I will buy any more Atlas engines.  I have 3 powered units-ABA- and they simply will not function as a TRain.  I have activated all the proper settings and tried using the Nudge mode, all to no avail.  

 

I am going to wait for Legacy F units.  The Atlas F units are stunning to look and they run and sound great individually, but I just can't get them to run as a TRain. I don't mean to rain on your parade, maybe others will report having better luck with building TRains with the cruise commander 4.1 engines.  Just wanted to share my experiences.

The 3rd Rail units run fabulous as a MU consist. My FP7's which are an ABA set, with both A units powered, are the best running engines I own.

You can still reserve the 3rd Rail units until the end of the month.

Where the powered units are in the consist makes little difference, but if you're planning on running a combined el cap/super chief, get the 37 set with the 3rd powered unit. GGD cars are heavy. 

I was going to add the same thing. 2 powered units will be fine for 8-12 cars, but if you intend to run a combine train as I do, with 18-20+ cars, you will need that 3rd powered unit. The 37LABC is what I would do. I have the Super Chief set, and those cars are heavy. Pulling that big of train with only 2 powered units is going to eat up traction tires on level track. I ordered an ABBA set from 3rd Rail, all 4 units powered, and with 22 GGD cars, I'm gonna need that power.

No problems here with my AtlasO powered F nits running together. They run nice and smooth. 

 

T4TT, make sure all motors are working. That could be the reason your having problems. 

 

Doug,

 

I have heard nothing but positives about 3rd Rail Loco's.  I have seen the ads for the F7's, but I was not sure about the Reservation window.  I am interested in the 3R F7's, but the downside for me is $$$$'s.  I have already committed a large portion of my 2015 Budget to the El Cap Hi-Levels.  At $600 ea. the 3R F Unit's are quite pricey, and more than 2 Powered Units would crush my 2015 Budget.  I am still working on allocating funds to begin the construction of our next layout.  If I commit to the 3rd Rail F's, I would probably have to put off construction till 2016.

 

 

I like the idea of a combined EL Cap/ SC, however, that would entail actually owning both trains.  I did not order the GGD Super Chief, due to funds being consumed on buying our 1st House.  Though I have a very loving and supportive wife, she would have killed me, if I had spent money on the Super Chief cars, and not towards buying our house.  Back to trains; I could definitely swing say two Powered A's and two Dummy B's, but 3rd Rail isn't offering Dummy units.  So the 3R F Unit's are not a viable option, as it relates to buying a complete set of ABBA's.

 

My other option would be to wait for Legacy F7's, but Lionel hasn't released Warbonnet F7's since 2007, and those were TMCC.  I would have no problem buying the TMCC F7's, but finding them is another issue altogether.

In that case I would go for the Atlas #45LABC. 2 pwrd 2 dmy... but if AT ALL POSSIBLE get that extra powered unit and go with #37LABC. The El Cap cars will be even heavier than the Super Chief cars. If down the road you are able to pick up more SF cars, you will have plenty of power to pull a bigger train.

I pulled my 14 car GGD Daylight set with the 3rd Rail FP7s, 2 pwrd A units and the dummy B, and that was about the limit on level track. Once they got moving they were ok, but getting some wheel slip in the beginning.... and that will stretch the traction tires out. If there would of been any kind of grade, I would of had to take a few cars off.

Legacy all the way. Have wonderful Atlas, MTH and 3rd Rail, but, I keep coming back to my favored engines overall; Legacy/Vision Line all the way!

JohnJr

Unfortunately at this point in time, thats just not an option for F7 Santa Fe warbonnets

A lot depends on the ability to do a consist with TMCC control. The Legacy remote is a bit different than old TMCC Cab1 remotes when applying the codes for a consist. Though with two A units, or even an A and B, units that have the same physical characteristics building the consist should not be a problem. There were adjustments with older TMCC units for momentum that seems to affect consist operations. 

 

You should check the specs. on the Dummy units.  You want to be sure that, even though, a dummy, (with out wheel drive motors), the lighting and electro-couplers work.  When you create a consist: the Front and Rear headlight of the consist function, all other lights are off.  Also the Front and Rear coupler of the consist function, all others are turned off.   The functions available on the dummy units would determine how you configure your consist.  Hopefully it all works well. 

This is an old Cab1/Command Base consist working well together. All (5) units are powered.  The Atlas GP7, lead, is EOB speed control, the (4) Atlas SW9s are standard TMCC.  Click on the triangle to access the video.

 

 

Here is a link to the Complete Guide to Command Control, the manual/instructions that came with a Cab1/Command Base set. Again this is old. The advanced operating techniques section is page 22 to page 27 You may also want to review Consist (Lash-up) operation with Legacy Control.  Unfortunately I'm not Legacy literate other than it does appear to operate TMCC.  Best wishes with your project. 

Mike CT

Additional note:  Even if you were to purchase Sunset Third Rail units, you would still be dealing with old technology TMCC. IMO.

Stick with this:

 

A- Powered (45L)

B- Dummy  (45A)

B- Dummy  (45B)

A- Powered (45C)

 

That is how they were delivered from EMD and Santa Fe made every effort to keep the together while they were in service.

 

Also with this configuration the two powered units contain the sound and it will be more evenly distributed as the lash-up passes.  

 

BTW, I have the full 12-car GGD El Capitan set on order and will probably use the above units for 50% of the time on the El Cap.  The other 50% will be Alco PA's either A-B-A or A-B-B-A.

Here is a cut & Paste copy of a post I made on an earlier thread about the Atlas F-units started by Mr Muffin:

 

No doubt about it.  Late last year I was able to score 4 Atlas-O GP60's that were still in the original factory sealed shipping cartons.  So, basically they are brand new, never been run.  Three of these units are powered and easily pull my reefer block of 32 MTH Santa Fe reefers.

 

In total these six motors could pull the bumpers off a dump truck.  Not to worry, I can also pull the above train with a single unit.  Some will say the 3 powered units is overkill and I will not argue, but the sound produced when they go makes it ALL worth it.

 

Yes, the GP60's are a bit longer than F7's and therefore are a few ounces heavier, but I see no problem being able to handle GDD's El Cap with two powered A's.

 

I'm in for the A-B-B-A lash-up of 45L, 45A, 45B & 45C.  That is how Santa Fe ran them and who am I to disagree?

 

If a single powered unit can pull 32 MTH reefers w/o straining, I am very confident that two powered units can handle a 12-car El Capitan.

 

If not, then I would consider buying a third powered (B-unit) for my lash-up.

This is for T4TT and anybody else that is having a hard time building a "train" using TMCC lash-up.

 

Follow the instructions in the link below.  If you still have problems configuring a "lash-up" aka "train" with your Atlas engines, then send them in for repair.  

 

I have shared this with link several people in the past and can report a 100% success ratio.

 

http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmclash.html

 

 

GOOD LUCK.

Thanks SantaFeJim!

I don't want to jack this thread.  I appreciate the link you posted.  I am using my CAB2 to build my F unit consist. The display really simplifies building a consist, another reason I love Legacy.  I used the ERR Cruise Commander Manual v4.1 to program each engine for Cruise, Large Motor, and 100 speed steps.  Then I attempted to use the Nudge feature to speed up the slower engine...didn't work.  Then I used the nudge feature to slow the faster engine....didn't work.  So I don't know what I am doing wrong.  The engines will not match speeds and fight one another when running.  

 

I was very interested in the thread Mr. Muffin started about the Atlas F7s and especially interested and impressed with Jerry Kimble's posts. 

 

I am over a barrel because I am confident these Atlas F units will look stunning.  I too considered the 45L-45A-45B-45C to be the ideal consist for my needs (2 powered cab units).  BUT, given the troubles my UP F3s have given me I am gun shy.  

 

Everyone seems to report that Atlas engines run well, I am hoping I will have the same opinion.  I have talked to Bill Seratelli from Atlas.  Hopefully he will help me sort this out, because I would like to purchase the same consist you are buying.

 

thanks again for your post and to the OP I apologize if I am jacking your thread, maybe this info will benefit you

However, the 3rd Rail units use ERR/Cruise which is 100 times better than the Atlas EOB when running a multi unit consist, especially with a Cab1

Understandable when discussing a model of a high-end steam locomotive. However, a simple EMD "F" type unit which only has a roots blown EMD diesel engine sound, plus a horn & bell, and all the "latest technology" in the world isn't going to make it sound, nor operate, any better than the ERR Cruise Commander, in my opinion. I would much rather have a spectacularly accurate and detailed model!

Just an FYI for weight and drawbar pull:

 

32 MTH reefers aprox 32lbs based on NMRA weight standards

 

My 10 car GGD Super Chief set is 35+ lbs

 

12 car GGD El Capitan set.... no one knows yet but it will be significantly higher than 35 lbs. My guess is 50+ lbs, and that's being conservative

Just my opinion but, I believe you are confusing the actual weight of the cars (dead weight, if you will), with the "rolling resistance", or drawbar pull weight. The pull on the last coupler of your locomotive consist with no way in the world equal 30 to 50+ pounds. 

 

Just like in real railroading, the locomotive consist doesn't actually "pull 19,000 tons" of drawbar pull when starting a 19,000 ton coal train. The drawbar pull for that last coupler on the diesel unit consist might be around only 400,000 POUNDS.

You gatta love this stuff  Well, "TIM",  my power is more power than your power.  If you get stuck, there's a (5) engine consist pictured above that will pull more stuff than you can imagine, and them SW9s don't have speed control, one way or another.  That's a 3.8% grade. 

 Mike CT. 

LOL   Must be a slow cold snow day with nothing to do.   

Laidoffsick,

 

Thanks for the numbers.  Can you point me to the source.  Or better yet, can you tell me the weight of 15 MTH 18" passenger cars?

 

Thanks.

Who is "TIM"?

AtlasO today uses ERR cruise not EOB. 

Reference is to the character (Tim Taylor) sit-com Home Improvement     "More power Tim"   

Well I am just trying to explain to them how heavy these cars are as far as how much weight the engines will be pulling. It was in reference to Jim's post above about 1 unit pulling 32 MTH reefers.

 

All I know is on the Cajon Sub, anything over 6900 tons.... call the helpers

He didn't say which ones he had.... are they older EOB or newer ERR? I currently have both.

Sure can..... I took my cars off the shelf and weighed them If you really want to know how much 15- 18" passenger cars weigh, I can weigh those too.

Does Legacy require entering a zero for single digits?

Such as "07" rather than just "7" with TMCC?

Jim,

 

15 MTH 18" streamlined passenger cars are right about 30 lbs, give or take a few oz depending on whether or not you have a full length dome in there. That car is 11 oz heavier than the standard cars. Yes I put mine on the scale

 

Much lighter than the GGD cars.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it both the 3rd Rail F7s and the Atlas F7 will have the same ERR Cruise Commander and Railsounds boards.  All of the electronic components inside both manufacturers are identical.  Right?  

That is correct.

That pretty well covers it, as there is no other supplier of Lionel Licensed TMCC Control products on the market.

So then, it is logical to assume that both Atlas and 3rd rail engines will run identically?  The only real difference between the two will be the aesthetic differences. 

Noted difference is the drive design.  Atlas is the classic (2) vertical can, China Drive. Sunset uses a single motor, (Cannon), horizontal drive. Both drive systems operate from the same Lionel licensed variable drive system.  IMO

Absolutely not!!!!

 

The Atlas O units will have the standard twin-motor "China Drive" system, i.e. one motor for each powered truck.

 

The Sunset/3rd Rail models will have a single large DC Can motor mounted in the center of the unit, driving a quiet, cog-belt driven shaft, that comes out of the fuel tank and into each truck, via. shafts, universal joints and gears. The Sunset/3rd Rail diesel models operate EXTREMELY smooth, and SLOW if so desired.

It appears, comparing price, one is $100 more than the other.  HW didn't mention that the horizontal drive allows for more interior cab detail. 

One large motor is superior to two smaller motors driving individual trucks?  Based on the schematic in the latest Lionel catalog, Lionel uses the same "China Drive" set up employed by Atlas? 

 

Then 3rd Rail puts the speaker inside the body, since the drive shaft is in the fuel tank?  How does that effect, if at all, the sound quality?

 

Looks like 3rd rail is not offering any dummy B units, right?

 

thanks for the info, very interesting

Looks like 3rd rail is not offering any dummy B units, right?

 

RIGHT.

 

That has a BIG impact on the $$$ of an ABBA lash-up. 

 

Atlas-O pre-order ABBA with 2 powered A's $1,184 from Mr Muffin includes FREE shipping.

The 3rd Rail ABBA is $2,400.   My estimate for shipping from 3rd Rail about $40.00.

 

I am sure that the Sunset 3rd Rail units are excellent both in appearence and performance, but I just can not justify the cost.  If you can, more POWER to you.

 

 

 

I can't justify the cost either, but sometimes you just gotta say WTF!

 

$2k for a VL BB, or $2400 for 4 diesels? Not really that much different

 

I ordered an ABBA set from Scott employing Laidoffsick's WTF justification. I also toyed with the notion of a third B, but not certain I have that much WTF left in me.

The 3rd Rail version will have what is the equivalent of RS5 in every unit.  If there is a difference between RS5 and Legacy, I can't hear it.  In fact RS5 may produce more volume (my experience).

 

The point is that speakers up, down or whatever, an A-B-B-A set of 3rd Rail diesels will make their presence known, big time.

I also took the F-it approach and ordered an ABBA of the 3rd Rail units. In part because of the available Yellow Bonnet units (ordered a Yellow A, and Red B-B-A), and in part because they have a semi-defined delivery date, rather than the alleged delivery date with the Atlas ones. Having already spent a small fortune for the Amtrak El Cap cars, I figured I might as well just blow the rest of this years train budget on the engines to pull it, without having to wait until sometime next year to get them.

Man, I sure like the way you think!!!!!!

I wanted an ABBA set of Rio Grande F7's from 3rd rail but spending $2400+ is a non starter. The WTF way of thinking does not work for me. Money means allot to me and spending what 3rd rail wants is not going to happen. 

 

So I ordered them from AtlasO. I expect them to be a great set. Each mfr.has their good and bad points but if AtlasO's is as good as their F3's then I will be very happy. 

OK but, those models are nowhere near scale when compared to what has been discussed on this thread.

 

SFJim,

 

Thank you for your input.  I really like the 45 Setup.  Also, I was planning on running the Legacy Alco PA's, but the lionel top 10 dealer I was going to buy them from, lost them.  They are not sure what happened to them.  I had them on layaway.  I grew up admiring both F Units and the PA's.  I have always wanted to own a pair in Warbonnet livery, and had been looking forward to putting them at the front of the El Cap.  Guess I'll wait till the next Legacy revision is announced, as I never see them on the Buy/Sell Board nor even on Fleebay.

 

 

T4TT,

 

You are not hijacking this thread.  Any and all relevant information that is being shared is mighty fine by me.  I had a lengthy conversation with Steve/ Mr. Muffin today (4 Feb), as it relates to the running/ mu of multi-headed loco setup's.  During the course of our conversation, he mentioned that he has a very large fleet of Atlas motive power, and has not experienced the issue you are having.  He has MU'd numerous trains without a hiccup.  Though Steve is a dealer, he is also a gentleman who buys product and runs them, and thus I am willing to take him up on his knowledge and experience, and say I am comfortable with making a purchase.  If there ends up being an issue, I'm sure there will be plenty of people, who will be willing to help rectify said issue/ and say I told you so.

 

Regarding the 3rd Rail suggestions; If 3rd Rail offered Dummy B units to go with their Powered Units, then I would potentially consider the 3rd Rail F7's.  However, $2400 is A LOT of money to spend for 4 Powered Units, and though I want an ABBA setup, 4 Powered Units would be way overkill on our layout.  We're only in our early 30's, and need to be thrifty on how we spend our money, and not buy on impulse.  Once upon a time, I could have spent $2400 on a locomotive purchase, and we would have figured out a way to make it work.  As the years have progressed, and our time in the hobby has increased, we have become more aware of what we want for our layout, and how much we are willing to spend.  

 

Dropping $4K plus on a combined setup of Cars & matching Loco's is Lunacy.  Though we're in for just a tick over $3K, that is still A LOT of money for us.  From a budget standpoint the El. Cap falls in under our 2014 Funds, but I'm not keen on wiping out 2015 on a match set of powered ABBA's, as the year is young.  Kyla & I have talked numbers, and we are comfortable with doing the Atlas F7's + El Capitan.  When I mentioned the price point of the 3rd Rail F7's, her response was very clear. :-)

A couple of comments.

 

If multiple units from the same manufacturer and having the same drive system will not MU, then one of the units has a malfunction. The slow unit probably has a bad motor or a misaligned gear system. The slow unit should be investigated/troubleshot.

 

Not all locomotives using the China Drive have the same gear ratio. While they seem to have the same motors, different manufacturers use different gears on the motors and the axles. I am just starting to investigate this, but I already know that K-Line diesels with the China drive run faster than Williams locos for the same track voltage.

 

I am currently investigating the differences between Lionel and MTH, with the intention of building a powered B unit to match my Lionel Alco PA. I plan to use the Lionel PB body and chassis, and power it with the drive system from an MTH DL 110.

I know a guy who has hiked the Grand Canyon (7) times. PA to Arizona transportation, even though your staying in a tent a good bit of the time, it's an easy $2,000 per person for the 7 to 8 day experience. Spend your money how ever you want, and say a prayer every day that we still have the ability and meager wealth to do so.  IMO  Mike.  

Did you guys happen to catch Scott Mann's post on the 3RS Forum?

 

Here is a picture of our soon to be cut-out El Cap cars.  Delivery April/May?

 

 

Invitation to T4TT and ALL other Forum members.

 

I see from your profile that you live in Illinois.  I live in Tinley Park but I belong to a Hi-Rail train club in Griffith Indiana.  It is about a 25 minute drive from my house.  The reason mention this is because our club is having an open house this weekend.  We are open to the public from 10:00am - 5:00pm both Saturday and Sunday.  Admission is FREE.  So, if your looking for something to do why not drive out and visit us.

 

Here is a link with detailed information and directions.

 

http://www.hirailmodulartrainclub.com/

 

If you can make it, ask for SantaFeJim.

 

Here are some pictures of our Club layout in Griffith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some pictures of our Club layout in Griffith.

Looks great Jim.  Enjoy the weekend.

There are a few things I can say about the 3rd Rail Santa Fe F7s in regards to the detailing. 

 

The Warbonnet F7 is being detailed to be accurate to the post 1956 era as that is when the final El Capitan cars were delivered to the Santa Fe.  This will also cover the 1958 combined Super Chief / El Capitan as well.  Numbers to be determined, but they will not be the same as the Atlas set due to the detailing being done.  They will be done in LABC configurations for those who purchased ABBA sets.  They will also be numbered with correct numbers for the LAB configuration that was used as well.

 

The Yellowbonnets will have slightly different detailing to accurately capture the locomotive that were painted in that livery. 

 

The freight F7s will also have different detailing from both passenger versions.

 

That covers 3 of the 16 different variations being produced as a single run.  While many won't notice or particularly care about this level of detail which is absolutely fine, this is the kind of commitment to the product that makes the extra cost worth it to me.  

 

One thought that occurred to me reading through the various threads is that if anyone who ordered the 3rd Rail F7 is looking to add dummy units, purchase the Atlas ones to mix with them.  I'm considering purchasing a dummy Atlas F7B to mix in with my powered 3rd Rail F7s and FP7s. 

 

I don't want to knock Atlas here at all, as I don't think there is really a true fair comparison.  The two models are really being made for two different markets and there is a place for both.  Atlas will be largely sold as 3 rail units and competing with MTH's latest and very good F7s, while 3rd Rail is mostly reserved as 2 rail units and the best 2 rail option without having to spend the money on a Key unit.

 

 

Back to your original question, James Eaton:

 

I don't see how you could go wrong with either of the Atlas F7's, except if you are a truly dedicated modeler of my Home Road.  The prototype 37 and the 45 were from different production phases and did differ on some car body details.  Atlas is surely not going to produce both phases, but that much attention to detail is not usually a problem for 3-rail modelers.  In O scale 2-rail, or in HO, they won't tolerate it.

 

The Atlas F7's will surely be good, durable runners like all of my previous Atlas diesels, and I am sure they will apply the paint and the simulated stainless steel in a correct manner.

 

I ordered from Sunset, because I want a bobtail 300 or 325 Class, not a 37 Class.  And, I am absolutely sure that Jonathan (who posts on the Forum - see post just before this) will be sure that all details of paint, headlights, etc., are as faithful as possible.

Hello Jonathan,

Please forgive my ignorance, but can you elaborate in greater detail how the 3rd rail F7s will differ from the Atlas F7s?  I don't have extensive knowledge of the prototype nor do I have the "WTF attitude" toward spending the $2400 it would cost for a 3rd Rail ABBA configuration.  Though, I have in the past rationalized what many would have considered to be outlandish amounts of money on trains.  

 

I too contemplated mixing 3rd Rail powered As with Atlas dummy Bs.  But the numbers won't match up of course.  Then they will likely have different finishes.  And if the 3rd rail engines have more/different detail then wouldn't that make the contrast between the two types more glaring?  These questions are probably impossible to answer without having production samples.  Which makes committing the funds even more unlikely for me.  

thanks

There are a few things I can say about the 3rd Rail Santa Fe F7s in regards to the detailing. 

 

The Warbonnet F7 is being detailed to be accurate to the post 1956 era as that is when the final El Capitan cars were delivered to the Santa Fe.  This will also cover the 1958 combined Super Chief / El Capitan as well.  Numbers to be determined, but they will not be the same as the Atlas set due to the detailing being done.

You ask great questions.

As far as the lineage of all F7s, ATSF's in particular, the details changed as the locomotives went through various maintenance cycles and major shoppings.  As delivered the F7s came to Santa Fe EMD in what has been simplified into two phases, phase I and phase II.  The phase is simply determined by the year it was built.  In reality the EMD products are always evolving so there really much more minor phases of production, but that gets to a point of detailing that is rediculus.

In reality some ATSF locomotives got more modifications than others.  Many of the phase I units ended up with phase II grilles over the years, grab bars were added on the engineer side of the unit in 1960 to meet federal law, dynamic brake fans were changed out and some other minor changes.  This didn't happen all at once so for anyone modeling after the mid 50's, it wouldn't be uncommon to see mixed number consists, units with different specific details and even minor color variations depending on when the unit was last painted.  If you look at photos online of the F7s in service, it isn't uncommon to see the differences between individual units in the same consist.  The LABC and LAB numbered sets didn't stay together in service.

The key question has been the stainless steel sides.  They will likely be different between the Atlas and 3rd Rail models.  I can say that both Atlas and 3rd Rail are working to achieve what they consider to be the best finish for their models, but getting that match will be difficult.  As for other road specific details, the 3rd Rail units will be accurate to 1956-1960 roughly and will be phase II F7s in the 42-47 number range and in the 300 series.  The 37LABC that Atlas is proposing if done properly and I have no doubt it will be, will have different style louvers, grilles and horns from the 3rd Rail one. 

There is the whole concept of gearing of the prototypes and which ones were mixed service vs. passenger only and some will care about that while others may not.  I'm primarily a Pennsy modeler so I know that the PRR had a matrix of what maximum speeds were allowable in consists with mixed geared F7s depending on the road number.  I can't say if the Santa Fe had a similar system or not.

Does that help at all?

Hi Jonathan and thanks for the details you've provided.  Your suggestion for mixing brands to obtain some non-powered B units seems a good one.  But now we'd have to convince Atlas to paint some Santa Fe B's in yellow..  

 

Perhaps you guys could order some undecorated B's from them and paint then to match what you are offering?  

Hi Jonathan,

Wow, are you kidding me?  That is a ton of great info, that helps a ton!!

Painting SF B units is one of these easiest paint jobs to do, because Microscale makes the decal stripes

 

The hard part is matching the silver paint between different brands. You could have some Yellow and Blue Bonnet B units hanging around

Interesting concept.  Let me run that up the tree.  I don't know if that would pencil out or not?  It is interesting also to note that I've seen photos of Yellowbonnet As with Warbonnet Bs, Bluebonnet Bs, and Yellowbonnet Bs all in the same consist pulling Amtrak trains.  Another option would be to see if Weaver could paint some undecorated ones as well to match.

 

 

Glad to help!  It has been fascinating learning about the ATSF.  It seems I'm modeling that in 3R now, while sticking with PRR and CNJ in 2R. 

 

One clarification I need to make is that the ATSF was definitely mixing numbers on F units by 1958.  I don't know a lot of modelers who are that concerned about exact dates, but there are certainly some.  Personally I live in a 1953-1957 range for my home layout.  For 3R I'm much more liberal.

 

The funny part about this whole discussion is I have three MTH FP45s that will be pulling my 11 car El Capitan when it arrives dating the train to the 1967-1971 period.  I love F units, but those cowl unit beasts look pretty cool pulling a passenger train.

I've been trying to convince Scott that he needs to make some FP45s to pull that train as well

304L, 315L and 319B were the Yellowbonnets "assigned" to Amtrak. I assume you're making at least some of those. I wouldn't be surprised to see other stuff in consists based on what ATSF made available and was ready when needed. Not surprisingly, a lot of photos of the El Cap/Super Chief turned SW Limited are all Red consists. A-B-A-B-B-B looks very common. Dummies would probably be helpful for that.

I am loving all this information that is being shared here.  

 

Jonathan, Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and insight.

 

As I stated earlier, if we could afford to swing the ABBA 3rd Rail F7's, I would definitely explore said option, but we do not need 4 powered units.  That is just way overkill for us.  However, IF 3rd Rail offered Dummy B's like they are doing for the E7's, then we may reconsider and might be able to swing the expense of buying 3rd Rail.  The picture you are painting as it relates to detail and definition within each loco is mouthwatering.  I'm a very visual person.

 

We would eventually like to own several sets of diesel locomotives, so that we could model various timeframes within the life of the Santa Fe Passenger trains from the 1930's and Onward, ex. E's, F's, PA's, & FP45's.  And as much as we love running prototypical trains, we also have to be realistic about what we can afford.  Thus, though I do not like to cut corners , some sacrifices will be made as it relates to the amount of detail we can afford/ choosing which products to purchase.

 

I greatly appreciate everyone's input that has been shared.