Slag and hot metal cars

First, these cars typically stayed inside the plant boundaries.   Most were not approved for movement on common carrier track.   There were exceptions of course.   Armco Steel in Middletown Ohio moved hot metal cars about 15 miles on CSX from Hamilton to Middletown regularly until the blast fces in Hamilton were shut down.   And I think they tried an experiment moving some from Ashland Kentucky to Middletown, but did not continue that.  

 

One of the big plants in Chicago made some moves on common carrier tracks also.  

 

I'm sure there were others.   None that I am aware of however moved these in general freights.   They were all special moves.

 

I am not aware of any slag cars moving outside of plants, but again it is possible.

 

Now was to size, the hot metal "bottle cars" I have seen were all about 250 tons capacity.   This is a big car!   That is before the weight of the car.   Typically a BOF recieving the charge was in that size range, hence the size.   Also the ones I have see personally generally had 2 4-wheel trucks on each end.    So finding a smaller one does not seem likely.  

 

These ran in small trains - less than 10 cars and inside the mills probably 2-3.   I'm surprised the Yoder locos cannot pull them regardless of weight.    good rolling trucks should allow that easily on level track.

Jim,

Thanks for the full reply!    I am not worried about Yoder's s12 pulling them as much as the difference in scale size....      I would not run them on a regular freight manifest, but between the mills and slag dump...

 

The MTH and Lionel cars are too large scale wise for a 2R locomotive and thus my inquiry.

Just curious, but have you compared the MTH & Lionel cars to drawings of the prototype? I have also wondered about their size, of the models that is. I have seen and been around the real ones, many years ago, and there are indeed huge, but I wonder about the MTH & Lionel models.

They are?  That's kind of surprising because I would guess them to be close to scale if not full scale.  I have several of each type, and when I place them behind a 3-rail SW or similar switcher, they appear to be about the right size as I recall from a good number of occasions when I watched them working the mills here in Youngstown.

Overland made some Treadwell cinder cars that are suitable for slag cars. Treadwell was the MFG of many prototype sub and slag cars.

 

 

Have you seen this?

 

See a hot metal car being filled at Bethlehem Steel in 1992. Photographed by Mike Curry and Bob Judge outside blast furnace 'E', it is a rare glimpse of the day to day servicing of the blast furnace. Check it out onYouTube
Or
See snapshots from the video

or this

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?s...:429,r:6,s:136,i:158

Ed R

Here's a link to another good image of slag cars (note size relative to SW1500 at rear)

 

http://www.hfinster.de/StahlAr...7-22.05.1992-en.html

Allan Agreed that they scale well with a Lionel engine, yoders s-12 looks too small... I will shoot pics tomm for comparative purposes. Overland made a brass cinder car-- they are hard to find though.

Appearances aside, it is always best to get the scale rule out and compare the various pieces to the prototype drawings, even if it is only the basic dimensions.

 

Here's a link to an HO layout layout that includes a pretty nice steel mill as part of its overall scene.

 

http://www.baltimoreandohiomod....net/steel_mill.html

Allan,

 

That is a nice setup, recognize the Walters Coke oven and Blast furnace kits.     I am building the blast furnace (I know its ho, but I will later bash it into a mill and scratch a better size together....

 

 

I have one lionel beth steel hot metal and two MTH Baltimore Iron Hotmetal cars. They are very big cars.

 

Walthers may be reproduced in O scale but am not sure if that was just a rumor or not.

Lee I agree with you; my MTH bottle cars are great with a Lionel or atlas switcher-- but dwarf Yoders s-12. Again I will pull out the models and post images for everyone to view and opine.

A quick internet search will reveal a wide variety (capacity) of hot metal cars:

 

 

Photo source: 

http://www.ejearchive.com/page..._steelroads_uss.html

 

 

 

There are also several books on the steel industry:

 

 

 

Pentrex offers a video that contains steel mill action:

 

Do some research => you will learn something about your choo-choo trains.

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

I believe that the MTH slag cars are scale sized. In the Harald Finster photo linked above by Allan Miller and in several photos in the Morning Sun book "Union Railroad in Color" the top of the slag pots are about the same height as the hoods on EMD switchers and the slag cars are much shorter than the switchers.

 

The size relationships are about the same for a Yoder S-12 and an MTH slag car as shown in the photo below. I replaced the MTH slag car trucks with Atlas Andrews 2-rail trucks and installed Kadee couplers.

 

Hot metal cars come in a wide range of sizes. The Lionel hot metal car is a small car while the MTH hot metal car is a much larger car. They seem scale sized to me but I haven't  compared them with the hot metal car drawings I have.

 

Larry Kline

Pittsburgh, PA

 

I have compared hot metal car drawings and photos that I have with the Lionel 6-39429 and MTH 20-98201 hot metal cars. Hot metal cars come in a wide range of sizes. I believe that both of these models are scale sized.

The Lionel 6-39429 hot metal car is comparable in size and appearance to a Treadwell 100 ton hot metal car. I plan to use it as a stand in for the 80 ton Treadwell cars that were used at the US Steel National Tube Works. My layout will include a very compressed version of National Tube. Here are photos of a prototype 80 ton Treadwell car from National Tube that is sitting near Station Square in Pittsburgh and the Lionel model with 4 wheel arch bar trucks replacing the original 6 wheel trucks. I plan to scratch build smaller end platforms for the Lionel car.




The MTH 20-98201 hot metal car is comparable in size and appearance to newer, larger, e.g. 250 ton, hot metal cars with four 4 wheel trucks that were used in many steel plants. Here is a photo of US Steel hot metal car 364 at the Edgar Thomson Works in the Pittsburgh area. It is similar to the MTH hot metal car. The hood of SW 1500 ET-2 in the photo gives a scale for the hot metal car.



Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Larry

Your images are not showing---thanks for the input!

 

Ok, here is my baldwin with a 3R slag and hot metal car(s) from MTH.    will of course change couplers/trucks

 

Larry Kline is giving you correct information; the steel mill cars offered by Lionel & MTH are scale-sized.  Lionel's have lighting to simulate molten metal & are thus ,ore expensive than the MTH cars.  The slag cars are the short, stubby cars with cup-shaped bodies.  These are designed to tilt to one side, and I had to reverse the bodies on the MTH cars because there is a protrusion on one side to prevent  dumping the load too close to the car itself--hot slag is not good for wood ties!  The factory installed the bodies facing the wring side of the car.  A simple fix that didn't take too much time.

 

These cars can be 2-railed by using the original factory trucks & installing 2R wheelsets with scale flanges, or replacing the trucks altogether as desired.

 

One point I think needs to be made is that both hot metal cars and slag cars are moved by common carrier RRs UNDER SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES.  These cars are built by commercial builders--not at the steel mills.  Therefore, new cars are delivered to the mills by common-carrier railroads.  Also, these cars need to be maintained from time to time with new firebrick linings inside.  If the steel mills don't do this work, the "used" cars have to be moved from the mills by common carrier to the repair facility.

 

The Morning Sun book on  the Union RR has some photos showing steel mill equipment, and there is a Yahoo group about the steel industry as well, for people wishing to learn more about the subject.  And if a loco seems too small for the cars, one can always try to get a bigger loco...

 

Larry,

 

I agree with you.  The cars are correct.  I am unfamiliar with the Yoder s12.  Is it Plymouth type switcher?  Something that small would probably have a hard time moving loaded hot metal cars or a decent train of slag cars.

 

Allan - nice photo.  Thanks.

 

As a boy, I would watch a Weirton Steel Alco S-2 haul a train of 12-20 slag cars (plus caboose) out of the mill to Standard Slag.  Really cool sight.

 

George

George,

The S-12 is a Baldwin switcher made by Rich Yoder (2R).   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_S-12

Thanks!

Brad

You guys might like this photo.  I took it around 2001 at Weirton Steel's No. 4 Blast Furnace in North Weirton.  Unfortunately, all blast furnaces are shutdown and being torn down.  I can't even get to this spot again because of all the overgrowth.

 

 

 

George

Brad A wrote:Larry

Your images are not showing---thanks for the input!

 

Test using images saved from the Mac Preview app and Firefox.

Brad, Can you see them now? The previous images were saved using Photoshop CS 3.

Larry Kline

 

Hey, great shots!   What are you going to paint your locomotive?    Also, any tips for changing the trucks on a Lionel hot metal car?

 

I tapped the truck mounting screw holes 4-40 and used a 0.21" spacer (really three washers) to get the Kadee coupler height right. I didn't spend much time since I'm going to scratchbuild new end platforms. Those are Athearn archbar trucks with NWSL metal wheel sets. I plan to look for trucks that are close to the prototype trucks. Suggestions are welcome.

 

Larry Kline

I negleced to answer the loco paint question. The S-12 will be a WM DS-4-4-1000. I need to change the exhaust stacks and the end railings. I have a Custom Brass S-1 that will become a McKeesport Connecting S-2 with that great paint job.

 

Larry Kline

Larry

 

Rich YOder makes great trucks....

One more post on this topic. There are also slag car and hot metal car photos in the three Morning Sun books "Steel Mill Railroads in Color" Volumes 1-3 by Steve Timko. Volume 4 is coming.

 

And here is a post from the STEEL Yahoo group about a hot metal car train that still operates in the Chicago area.

For anyone who is interested in where the Chicago area bottle train gets it
start, check this out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3...34318/in/photostream
John Eagan

 

Larry Kline

Hi Brad,

 

Rather than give you a useless tip to google for information, here's  hopefully a useful one based upon some actual experience.  

 

 

One of the best books on this subject is the TRP book "Bethlehem Steel Railroading".  It is only $25 and jam packed with lots of pictures and info on how railroading happened at the Bethlehem Steel plant in Bethehem PA.  Both color and B&W pictures, track plans and narratives from folks who worked the plant and the PBNE.  Most is from the 60's-70's but it is timeless..

 

Another good reference (if you can find it) is the March 1994 Railpace magazine which has a great article on 'The Trains of the  Bethlehem Steel'. 

 

The youtube videos of handling slag are also priceless for understanding how "the steel" did railroading around the mill.

 

Rob.

 

 

Rob,

 

I found the Bethlehem book and purchased it---thanks for the advice!