small drill bits for adding lift rings on MTH E-8's

Best if you get a set of small number drills 61-80. They aren’t that expensive. High speed steel is the most forgiving. Carbide is much easier to break.

Pete

The lift rings you intend to add have a stem on them, …..yes? …..We don’t know who makes the lift rings you have, so we can’t recommend a bit without knowing the stem diameter……the first tool in your box when doing fine custom work like this, should be a digital caliper, …..cheap tool on the popular shopping sites, or bargain box tool stores, …..

Pat

Walthers sells tiny drill bits too, but I don't know if they have sets or just individual 2-packs.    Some Machine tool suppliers should have them too.  

As mentioned, there is a set of 61-80 that comes in a plastic round holder that is very convenient.    When you break one, simply replace it.

Yes #80 is the smallest and is very fine.    Your lift rings will probably need a much bigger bit, depending on diameter.    For a quick and dirty you can eye-ball the stem of the lift ring vs the drill bit and pick a size close.   I can often get a close size by the feel of the two piece in my fingers.  Maybe go a little small and then widen the hole as needed.    It is really hard to put material back in the hole once it is out!

@prrjim posted:

Walthers sells tiny drill bits too, but I don't know if they have sets or just individual 2-packs.    Some Machine tool suppliers should have them too. 

As mentioned, there is a set of 61-80 that comes in a plastic round holder that is very convenient.    When you break one, simply replace it.

Yes #80 is the smallest and is very fine.    Your lift rings will probably need a much bigger bit, depending on diameter.    For a quick and dirty you can eye-ball the stem of the lift ring vs the drill bit and pick a size close.   I can often get a close size by the feel of the two piece in my fingers.  Maybe go a little small and then widen the hole as needed.    It is really hard to put material back in the hole once it is out!

Agreed, ….the sneak up approach has been my method for survival!….when guesstimating, pick the one you think, then subtract one!….

Pat

Of course, there's always the calipers to measure the lift ring shank so you don't have to guess.

I have a metric/SAE combo model that I use all the time, very handy in any measurement situation.

Lots of good advice here. The assortment is probably your best option. As there will always be other projects.

I would start on a piece of scrap styrene to find the correct size for a snug fit. If you don’t have a hobby shop close by. Ace Hardware stores are plentiful. Most if you do some searching have an assortment rack of Irwin Hanson numbered bits up to 60 if what you have requires a bit bigger hole than the mini set.

Pat’s and John’s suggestion of a digital caliper also comes in handy for all kinds of projects. You can find charts on google that will convert your measurement to a numbered bit.

Maybe I'm ham-fisted, but I suggest buying many more bits than you think you'll need - they bend and break very easily.  Fortunately, they're inexpensive when bought in quantity; unfortunately, it's not always easy to hop in the car and get more.

While it's always better to drill a snug hole, a small amount of gap-filling CA applied from the back side of the hole inside of the shell can absolve a lot of sins.  There's also the UV-activated glue that can fill gaps.

Real men use vernier calipers.

@illinoiscentral posted:

Real men use vernier calipers.

Real men don't know what they're missing, my vernier caliper stays in the toolbox and I dig out the dial caliper.

Piling on: buy a dial caliper and a set of 61-80 drills. Young people might prefer a digital caliper, but I'm an old fart.

@Ken Wing posted:

Piling on: buy a dial caliper and a set of 61-80 drills. Young people might prefer a digital caliper, but I'm an old fart.

I’m an old fart, I spent my career using dials and veneers,….. I’m not wasting my precious years left worrying about veneers or a dial,…I’ll take the big fat numerals on the digital caliper for 200 Bob,…..

Pat

Depends which rings you buy, and if they’re cast brass or bent wire. Usually a #71 or 68 is the right one, but the cast ones can be a little thicker (lower number bit). For the small bits, just get a 61-80 set. It also pays to get a 41-60 set if you plan on doing more than just a little detail fiddling.
don’t spend a ton of money. These bits love to snap when looked at wrong because they’re so tiny. Once you figure out which sizes you use frequently, buy 12 packs of those sizes.

I just bought a 12 pack a couple days ago of #76’s to drill about 25 holes for grab irons and such in a resin car build. I think I have maybe 4 left in the tube. You hope when the break there’s something to grab onto.

@Dave_C posted:

I just bought a 12 pack a couple days ago of #76’s to drill about 25 holes for grab irons and such in a resin car build. I think I have maybe 4 left in the tube. You hope when the break there’s something to grab onto.

Chinesium, the weakest metal known to man kind.

Pat

Harbor Freight has really small drill bits.

@harmonyards posted:

I’m an old fart, I spent my career using dials and veneers,….. I’m not wasting my precious years left worrying about veneers or a dial,…I’ll take the big fat numerals on the digital caliper for 200 Bob,…..

Pat

My problem is the two digital ones I have always have dead batteries when I decide I'm going to use them.  However, the dial caliper is easy to use, and I never have to worry about the batteries.

I wondered why the battery was always dead, so I did a little experiment.  I connected a microammeter between a battery and the battery holder to measure the power-on and power-off current.  The mystery was revealed, the caliper drew around 13.5 microamps when on, and about 12 microamps when I pressed the OFF button.  Big whoop, there's not really any difference between on and off on these things!  That computes to about one year of battery life from the little LR44 battery!  No point in turning them off, it really doesn't make any significant difference!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My problem is the two digital ones I have always have dead batteries when I decide I'm going to use them.  However, the dial caliper is easy to use, and I never have to worry about the batteries.

I wondered why the battery was always dead, so I did a little experiment.  I connected a microammeter between a battery and the battery holder to measure the power-on and power-off current.  The mystery was revealed, the caliper drew around 13.5 microamps when on, and about 12 microamps when I pressed the OFF button.  Big whoop, there's not really any difference between on and off on these things!  That computes to about one year of battery life from the little LR44 battery!  No point in turning them off, it really doesn't make any significant difference!

They must vary a lot by brand. I got a deal on a Starrett a number of years ago. The battery lasted over five years before I had to change it and I use it almost every day.

My old Brown and Sharp ate batteries until it finally died.

Pete

@Norton posted:

They must vary a lot by brand. I got a deal on a Starrett a number of years ago. The battery lasted over five years before I had to change it and I use it almost every day.

My old Brown and Sharp ate batteries until it finally died.

Pete

I'll have to check out the Starrett, I'd love to have a digital that I could take out and not have to replace the battery to use it.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My problem is the two digital ones I have always have dead batteries when I decide I'm going to use them.  However, the dial caliper is easy to use, and I never have to worry about the batteries.

I wondered why the battery was always dead, so I did a little experiment.  I connected a microammeter between a battery and the battery holder to measure the power-on and power-off current.  The mystery was revealed, the caliper drew around 13.5 microamps when on, and about 12 microamps when I pressed the OFF button.  Big whoop, there's not really any difference between on and off on these things!  That computes to about one year of battery life from the little LR44 battery!  No point in turning them off, it really doesn't make any significant difference!

True, and my Bluepoint would do the same thing, ….So an easy alternative, I just pop the battery out when I ain’t using it, …..I just leave it sitting in the case …..a dial is always there on the ready, ….I’m just sick of looking at tiny numbers, …..I’ve got them all, ….in multiple brands……I just like the big numbers on the billboard…..

Pat

Don't forget to check out Micro-Mark's website.

I just eyeball such a project.  Start with a smaller drill and work up.

I would only use a hand drill unit and you need a small chuck to grab such a small drill.

Dave

@Henryjint posted:

Don't forget to check out Micro-Mark's website.

Truthfully, I can almost always find the same product for considerably less than Micro-Mark's prices.

Harbor Freight sells a 30pc high speed steel micro drill bit set for 2.99.

@John Hutnick posted:

Harbor Freight sells a 30pc high speed steel micro drill bit set for 2.99.

It's a pretty coarse step size for these HF bits, it's not like the sets where you get all the sizes from #80 to #60.

This set from Amazon is exactly like the one I have, it steps from #61 to #80.

GYROS 20 PCS Mini Twist Drill Bit Set #61 to #80 w/Dome Storage Case

@John Hutnick posted:

Harbor Freight sells a 30pc high speed steel micro drill bit set for 2.99.

The thing about most drills from Asia other than Japan is they tend to be undersize. You find a 65 drill is the correct size for a piece of wire and then your wire won’t fit and you need a 63 to make the correct hole. Not a big deal if you have a set but more important when you go to replace a broken bit.

Best stick to US, European, or Japanese if accuracy is important, not to mention better quality material.

Pete

I use this for some drilling, my major complaint is that it doesn't have a really slow speed to start the hole.  That being the case, I use a pin vise to start the hole, then switch to the power for making some speed.

Still looking for one that has a really slow starting speed that doesn't cost a mint.   Until I find one, this one works pretty well if you use it properly.

Cordless Rotary Tool Kit, 3.7V Mini Grinder with 5 Variable Speed

I think that we make too much of this drilling subject.  If you can get to Harbor Freight, buy the cheap $2.99 drill set.  If it works out, fine.  If not, in the drawer.  As far as 61-80 sets Made in USA, maybe someone here can tell me what site to use to buy these and at what price.  Knkut costs $82 for the set.  DrillAmerica says on their site that they get products from various countries. 

@John Hutnick posted:

I think that we make too much of this drilling subject.  If you can get to Harbor Freight, buy the cheap $2.99 drill set.  If it works out, fine.  If not, in the drawer.  As far as 61-80 sets Made in USA, maybe someone here can tell me what site to use to buy these and at what price.  Knkut costs $82 for the set.  DrillAmerica says on their site that they get products from various countries.

Cheap tools are not good, & good tools are not cheap, ……personally, I’d rather drill a hole once on an expensive model, and not do it over & over again risking damage because the cheap, cheap, cheap bits I got aren’t sized properly …..

Pat

Thank you to all who replied to this thread.Great info from all you guys. So in the end I ended up finding a pack of small drill bits at Menards. If I remember correctly, the smallest was a #74. I am sure these are not really that good in quality but I am only drilling through a plastic body shell. They seem to work fine. I didnt see a pin vise at menards so I chucked it up in a Xacto blade holder and it worked just fine. I just tried different size bits in a scrap piece of plastic before drilling into the roof of the loco.

Now, I would like to add grab rails that are located on the side of a E-8 hood. I believe the crew could climb up these grab rails to get to the windshield for cleaning. Do any of you know where I could get these pre bent and probably in brass? I know MTH adds these to some E-8's but not all. I really like the looks of these grab rails. I can make them myself and just copy what MTH does. Brass would be very easy to bend and since I now have a drill bit assortment I think I am set. However if someone sells these prebent grabs I may want to buy them instead. Thanks for any input

I just finished up doing a resin gondola kit. Had to install about 20 of them. Not a fun job. Used a #76 bit. Luckily there was bolt heads cast into the body. So figuring where they went wasn’t to difficult.

You can buy scale phosphor bronze ones through Tichy Train Group. Basically the same as brass. Reasonably priced and sold by the bag. If you want a more rugged one. Atlas would have them. The thing is. If you are off a whisker drilling the holes. It’s easier to tweak the Tichy ones to fit. Tichy also sells straight rod in the same size. Worst case scenario if your off a bit in your drilling. You can roll your own fore a better fit.

Both of these are just the grab itself. If you desire the bolt detail as well. Precision Scale available on the bay would have them. Just expect to pay a bit more. You could also drill a second hole on top of the grab and add a small pin to simulate the bolt head.

If you go for it. I would try to set up some sort of template if possible to get the holes in the proper place and to get them spaced correctly. Worst case scenario. If you drill a hole way off. It’s so small. It’s pretty easy to fill in.

lift ring

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Real men don't know what they're missing, my vernier caliper stays in the toolbox and I dig out the dial caliper.

The dial mechanism on my dial calipers got damaged somehow, the vernier works fine. Do need to be able to do math in your head though, its like making change with quarters.

The vernier says Craftsman but I think it was made by Starrett (sp?). The dial calipers are not of the highest quality. Worked at Skil, at one point the boss said everything not NIST calibrated (or out of cal), its going in the closet and you have to ask for it, and if so, we get it calibrated. If it stays in the closet, it goes. Then for one Christmas, we had a raffle, hourly people go first, then salary. I got the dial calipers and a beam scale. The vernier was from a machine shop class I took between high school and college at a community college.

@illinoiscentral posted:

The dial mechanism on my dial calipers got damaged somehow, the vernier works fine. Do need to be able to do math in your head though, its like making change with quarters.

I have no problem with math in my head, and my dial mechanism works fine on my calipers.