Sunset 3rd Rail GP9/GP7

Lionel has never done a 2 rail engine, so even it close to scale, it is of little use.    MTH has, but the flaws mentioned above make it a poor choice for me personally.    The red Caboose loco has a nice superstructure, but the mech is lightweight.    Atlas got the dies from Red Caboose/Intermountain and have used them, but they use the infamous china block drives. 

those two motor drives are good pullers and run well around loops but any I have had are not nearly as good as single motors for an oprating layout that requires switching and slow speeds.

By the way I think possibly MTH and maybe Lionel has done a 3 rail RS3.    As for the atlas one, I don't know if it close to scale dimensions or not.   A friend of mine had a pair of them.    To both of us they looked funny.    They looked too tall and so appeared too short.    The shell may be right, but they sat too high on the trucks and just did not look right when compared to photos where they appear long and lean.

I guess this sounds like rivet counting, but I don't feel it is.    If the model does not "look" right to me from 3 feet away or so on the layout, I don't like it.   I do have MTH 2 rail GP30s from years ago in the 90s when MTH did some 2 rail stuff.    From "2 feet away" they looked as good, or just like the brass one I had.    As a result I sold the brass one.

prrjim posted:

 

...

Yes the reservation system seems to work pretty well.   An announcement is made and we all jump in, or we don't and scott decides to do the product based on that.    I think I have heard the target is about 1000 units to get the current price level.   If we settle for a lot fewer units, the prices goes up considerably.  

It's 500 models at the current price point.  The K-M is $1200 for 150 units.   ANY diesel can be done  @$1200 for 150 right now.  GP7/9s, SD40-2s, FP45s, SDP40Fs,  whatever.  Doesn't matter what it is made out of.

Jim I generally agree with you.

One approach would be to buy a 3rd Rail F-unit and harvest the drive for use in an Atlas GP.  Sell the remaining parts at auction for whatever you can get.  Another option would be to repower the Atlas GP with one of the aftermarket drives available for O-scale diesels.  Heck, now that Atlas itself makes an MP-15 with properly spaced Blombergs, you could even steal the drive from one of those.  All of these approaches are costly, but one way of getting what you want right now.  My $.02.

Atlas recently offered the RS3 in their TrainMan line.  In comparison to the old Weaver version, the Atlas shell is taller and wider to accommodate the China drive. Otherwise, the overall height ( at th cab ) and length are th same with no noticeable difference in gap between body and truck.  The ERR electronics do their usual great job of making switching realistic.  Probably all moot points as the line is strictly 3 rail.  

Bruce

brwebster posted:

...Probably all moot points as the line is strictly 3 rail.....

Bruce

Not true.  The Trainman line models are offered in both 2-rail and 3-rail.  However, the other comments about hood height and width are true.  I've often heard that the Weavers are fairly accurate renditions.

big train posted:

brwebster posted:

...Probably all moot points as the line is strictly 3 rail.....

Bruce

Not true.  The Trainman line models are offered in both 2-rail and 3-rail.  However, the other comments about hood height and width are true.  I've often heard that the Weavers are fairly accurate renditions.

The original Weavers, with the handrails mounted on top of the walkway, are the only accurate RS3s other than those that were made in brass many years ago. 

I have an Atlas Trainman RS3 in 2-rail, but it betrays the 3-rail origins of the Trainman design with big spacers between the pilots & frame, & handrails that finish short at the steps at each corner, & pressed stanchions that go down the frame side. The hood is too tall which is more obvious when you look at the centre windows on the cab.

But I got mine at a bargain price on ebay.co.uk, & I liked the fact that all the grab irons are metal, rather than molded on like the Weaver model.

With an ESU Loksound L decoder it manages a decent crawl, not quite as good as a single-motor setup can get admitedly, but it sounds great - splutters just like a real Alco.

On the subject of CF7s, here's one I did earlier....

Unfortunately, it's an HO Scale Athearn model I repainted myself, & I no longer model in HO.

I would order a GP9 lettered for the Pennsy if 3rd rail would offer one.

Norm

Hot Water posted:

 

Exactly. Since the market is fairly well saturated with Atlas GP7/9 models

 

 

BS!
When they came out, I saw exactly one Atlas N&W GP9. My dealer didn't put my order in for some reason and then I couldn't find any! Not even from Atlas. One GP9 doesn't not a proper consist make. I think that I have seen one since on ebay. Sooooo, saturated they are not!
I have requested that Atlas rerun the N&W units, including the "Redbirds", but, as usual, talking to them has been like talking to a box of rocks.

BTW,
The recent run of Athearn N&W GP9 Redbirds & Bluebirds seem to have sold quite well with many modelers having a hard time finding them.

"Scott needs to do SW and NW switchers"
You've got to be kidding me! Talked about saturated! A dime a dozen.
What we need is something with character...an ALCO T6!
Maybe Scott could do that

Can't really beat the Atlas version at half the price....

I would think that the GP 7,9,18 and 20 as one run would get sufficient reservations, it appears that beyond first generation diesels there is not enough market interest for more modern diesels [case in point SD-40-2s] at Sunsets price point bearing in mind that the "street price" from MTH,Lionel and Atlas averages 450+/- for most diesels and most buyers want at least a pair. Scott is dependent on both 3 and 2 rail orders to make his numbers. JMO

Hot Water posted:

catnap posted:

Atlas does an excellent GP7/GP9 so I wouldn't be interested.

Exactly. Since the market is fairly well saturated with Atlas GP7/9 models, not to mention MTH and Lionel, in my opinion, Sunset/3rd Rail would be hard pressed to receive sufficient order/reservations for these.

I have a 2-rail B&O GP9 that I'm going to outfit with a LokSound XL decoder to replace the crummy QSI board that came with it.

 

"Fairly well saturated"? Sorry, but that is not the case. There haven't been that many two-rail Atlas GP-7s or GP-9s to be had in western and southwestern paint schemes to begin with, and what there were have been gone from dealers' shelves for a long, long time. Certain roads, like the Katy and the Frisco, have been ignored entirely.

And while Lionel's Legacy GP-9s are acceptable-looking, they're not only hard to find, but they're in three-rail only to boot.

I guarantee you - prove this pent-up demand to Scott with reservations, and your desires will be fulfilled.  I think that is amazing, and unheard of in this hobby.

By the way, Mr. Sick, that is a really nice looking model and some truly spectacular scenery!

bob2 posted:

I guarantee you - prove this pent-up demand to Scott with reservations, and your desires will be fulfilled.  I think that is amazing, and unheard of in this hobby.

Pray tell, how to the other guys do it?

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

bob2 posted:

I guarantee you - prove this pent-up demand to Scott with reservations, and your desires will be fulfilled.  I think that is amazing, and unheard of in this hobby.

Pray tell, how to the other guys do it?

Simon

Apparently MTH does the same thing, i.e. an item in the catalog that does not get sufficient orders, is dropped and does NOT go into production. Lionel now refers to such a process as "BTO" = Build To Orders.

Hot Water posted:

Apparently MTH does the same thing, i.e. an item in the catalog that does not get sufficient orders, is dropped and does NOT go into production. Lionel now refers to such a process as "BTO" = Build To Orders.

Which pretty much from what I see is the way everyone else (in 2 rail) does it.

Simon

One caveat to my previous post Atlas has the  GP7 Phase2 listed as one of 6 diesels 3Q 18 delivery, now we all know at best only one of these models "may" come in by the end of the year, for whatever reason the GP7 is listed first, obviously if this model gets produced in the foreseeable future it would impact potential reservations for a Sunset run. just saying!

Hmm,I would expect that if Scott would announce and get enough reservations for the GP it would be a race horse to see who would deliver first,Atlas or 3rd Rail---I would not bet against 3rd Rail.

Norm

hibar posted:

One caveat to my previous post Atlas has the  GP7 Phase2 listed as one of 6 diesels 3Q 18 delivery, now we all know at best only one of these models "may" come in by the end of the year, for whatever reason the GP7 is listed first, obviously if this model gets produced in the foreseeable future it would impact potential reservations for a Sunset run. just saying!

There was an indication that it's going to be GP7's this year, and the SW and MP15 switchers next year.

Hope so.